Conference quark::mennotes-v1

         Now wait a minute.  I might be willing to die for SOMEONE I
    love, but to say that one must be willing to die to MAKE LOVE in
    order to make it different from plain sex is pushing it a bit beyond
    reality.
    
                                 Greg

       
       
       	Talk about a loaded question.. Sorry, as much as I like to make
       love to someone special, I think I'd rather live a long life than make
       love one last time and die..
       
       	Maybe you could re-word the question.. (sounds like a topic for 
       	HUMAN_RELATIONS though)
       
       						mike

     How do you define "making love" in the context of your questions?
    While sex is very nice, if one is really in love with someone, sex
    is only one part of many of the things that make the relationship
    special. It's certainly not worth dieing for. Killing for perhaps :-)
    but not dieing for.
    
    				Alfred

    NO! And I resent your implication that a response of no indicates
    never having experienced heightened love making. Conjugal love is
    only a pleasurable subset of greater reason for living. This is
    clearly a question of values to which there is no universal answer,
    even though you have tried to assign one.
    

    re: .5
    
    Hear!  Hear!
    
    Steve
    

    What would be the point in making love once and then die for it
    if you won't be around to enjoy the feeling you get after making
    love.  Any one who answers yes is definately sicko.
    
    Personally, as good as it is, it's not worth dying for!!!!!!
    
    CC
    

    
    
                         Andy,
                               I'm happy for you.
    
                                            
                                             MATT
    
    
    
    

    
    I'm sure there are women who think they are worth it...
    

    	Re: .0
    
    	Yeh, as a matter of fact I'm dying for a little of either kind
    	right now!
    
    	When you say "a few hours of love making" are you talking
    	about all at once or maybe a few minutes each night?

    
    	Jake

Most of us will answer No because we are sitting at a terminal, 
pretending to rationality.

But .... remember the rat-pleasure center experiments? During research on
brain-pleasure centers, researchers used implanted-wires to stimulate the
"pleasure center" of rats' brains, the region involved in organism.  A rat
could press a food lever, which delived food, or press a 'signal' lever,
which delivered a tingle to the pleasure center. 

The rats pressed the signal lever until *total* physical exhaustion set in 
and they could not move.  If I remember correctly, most of the rats
starved to death. 

So I guess the answer to .0's question depends on what you're doing when 
the question is asked.

Meigs

       If there was a chance for a child, yes.
    
                                                    Russ P.

       
       
       	I'm not a rat.. 
       
       						mike

    re.9
    
    I guess you found that reply appropriate, how is far beyond
    me though.  
                                      cj
    

    re: .9
    
    	I'm sure there are men who think they are worth it...
    
    	C.

    What a question!!!!
    
     First, to me, it implies that I can't find "love making" situations.
    In other words, that I have to trade my life to have something great
    like that. 
    
     Not only have I made love, but intend to continue to do so! I think
    the ability to find someone, and fall in love exists within all
    of us, so there is no need to trade away our lives. I mean, why
    would I give away further chances? Doesn't make sense to me!
    
     From the original note, I gather that the noter thinks that the
    human world is somewhat like the preying mantis world......

    
    			Gregg

    
    RE .0    Ahhh, you been dating black widow spider type 
             women lately or is it just a morbid curiosity
             fantasy your dealing with ?????
    
             I am a firm believer in the George Patton school of
             thought......make or let the other die in the name 
             of what ever be the reason or cause, for it's the 
             the survivor who is the true winner and hero.
    
             I also know that there has been times that I have 
             not been totally in love with a woman, but we have 
             made love and not just had sex. One does not have to
             be thoroughly entrenched in a total love relationship
             to experience lovemaking which is good with a person 
             that genuinely cares.
                                          Bob B
    

    	Hero and Leander, Juliet and Romeo, all four knew they were risking
    their lives - it is a common theme throughout literature and history.
    People have given their lives for their loved children where there
    was no question of sex. They have also given their lives for causes
    where there was no question of human love.
    
    	Heroism, lust and love are mixed in different proportions in
    different people. If you get a lot of all of them (and the right
    circumstances) then you get one of the classic stories.

    It sounds like your question is pointed at the AIDS issue or some
    other related area.
      Hypothetical situation:
      If I were in love with a woman and we knew there was a risk, I
      would put the risk aside and make the best of time I have left.
      There are very few that I've known that I could say this for but
      I can say I've experienced love in a wonderful way.
     
    Have you ever known someone that you could love even if they were
    crippled or some other debilitating situation?
    
    Jim

re.> 234.11 by CADSE::GLIDEWELL 


> But .... remember the rat-pleasure center experiments? During research on
> brain-pleasure centers, researchers used implanted-wires to stimulate the
> "pleasure center" of rats' brains, the region involved in organism.  A rat
							    ********

		H:"How was it for you darling?"

		W:"I had a wonderful multiple amoeba...."

			rik ;-)		

    re: .20 (-mike z)
    
    	Prove it!
    
    	C.
    

    re.20
    
    certainly ain't met one yet myself...don't 'xpect to either....
    
                                          cj
    

         Mike, we're gonna git her drunk next week and mail her to you.
    Promise to send her back soon, or her group will fall apart.
    
                                     Greg

    
    Don't forget to fill out a SBA, or Recieving may keep her...
    
    on the SUSPENCE shelf.

    	Now if you were talking about First Class on an airplane,
    	Mike, that'd be one thing.  But the way it stands now I'm 
    	going to be mighty cautious of anyone wielding packaging 
    	tape and reinforced string.  (Hm!)
    
    	C.

    what the hell does all this have to do with the damn topic?!
    
    i've always wanted to say that. :*)
    
    sherm
    

    
    Sherm, I think that note .27 using the phrase, "sending her
    1st class" has to do with sex.
    
    Dwight

    re: .0
    
    I'd like to ask a counter question: Would you (or anyone) be willing
    to die for the opportunity to vacation in Florida, or drive to work,
    or take a shower, or go hiking in the mountains ?
    
    No matter what aspect of life one chooses, it contains a few percentage
    points "of a possibility that they will die" from it.
    
    The question seems poised toward AIDS, syphilis, or other sexually
    transmitted diseases .. my question poises the reality of "taking
    chances", whether that chance is from sexual uses, driving cars, flying
    in airplanes, or sports related activities.. AIDS kills one patient at
    a time. Airplanes kill up to hundreds  at a time .. and people PAID for
    that dubious privilege. 

    'little ol truble makr moi
    //rwe
    
    

         Hmm, even with AIDS, there are protective measures that can
    be taken.  Not completely guaranteed, but relatively safe.  Then,
    there's the fact that you can love someone with AIDS without MAKING
    love to them.
    
    Re: .27
    
         Sorry Mike, after reconsideration, it has been determined that
    there is a 95% chance that you would keep her.  So, no Shanghai
    maneuvers will be undertaken.
    
                                   Greg

    re:
    Some men think that they are worth it but once they have had and got
    want they want out of us they lose interest, which makes me hate you
    
    Tracy

    .34  What are the ages of these men?  Just curious.  I'm wondering
    if we ever outgrow this scorecard mindset.

    re.35:
    my very own thought....
    
    mike

    re:  .0
    
    NO.  Why die for it?  
    
    
    other observations...
    
    The phrase "making love" verses other phrases is another one of those
    things that many people get hung up on.  If I'm with a woman who has to
    hear "making love" as opposed to "sex" or any other description(s)...
    the relationship will probably clash.  Sure, it's nice to "love"
    someone I'm having sex with... but as Eddie put it... "Had you rather
    have someone say, won't you please make love to me, OR had you rather
    have them grab the back of your neck and say ____ the ____ out of me!"
    
    I'll choose the later... thank you. 
    
    Dwight

>    "Had you rather
>    have someone say, won't you please make love to me, OR had you rather
>    have them grab the back of your neck and say ____ the ____ out of me!"

Depends on my mood and his.  I'd like to find a partner who is 
flexible enough to do both.


							--Ger

    
    re:  -1
    
    I can dig it.  I mean... hey... Ya might have a real headache.  :^)
    
    Dwight

>    Some men think that they are worth it but once they have had and got
>    want they want out of us they lose interest, which makes me hate you

 If it bothers you that you feel "used" for sex, then stop playing the game.
As long as there are men that want sex, there will be men that will say 
"whatever it takes" to get it. And as long as this is successful (ie the woman
acquiesces), they will continue to do it. You should realize that every time
you jump into bed with someone, you are giving them positive reinforcement
for their manner of seducing you. So if it took flowers, the guy thinks like
this sex = tracy + flowers. (Yes, it's an oversimplification, but it makes the
point). If many girls just need to hear "I love you," then many guys think
sex = girl + "I love you."

 Now, if you think sex is recreational for you, this isn't an issue because
you are using him as well. But if what you really want is intimacy and you're
using sex to get it, perhaps you ought to rethink your strategy.

 My daughters sometimes tell me "My boyfriend is such a jerk. I hate what he's
doing to me." To which I reply "He can only do to you what you let him do.
If you continually take him back after he's seen other girls, you are telling
him (in effect) that it's alright to cheat." Same theory applies.

 The Doctah

    It seems that men sometimes use love to get sex.
    It seems that women sometimes use sex to get love.
    
    IMHO we should learn to be honest with ourselves.  What is it that I
    really want?  After we know what it is that we want, ourselves, then we
    need to make sure that our mates are doing the same.  Once we stop
    decieving ourselves we will tolerate no deception.  

    re  17
    
              I see a good point in your comment. Making love can be
              a lot of things and I believe that a nuturing situation
              can be one of them.
                                   dp...