Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    You may want to look at note 53 in QUARK::HUMAN_RELATIONS for
    an extensive prior discussion.
    
    					Steve

    I've been accused of being unrealistic, but I think that pre-nuptial
    agreements take something away from the idea of marriage.  Maybe
    the 80's are different than in years before with its high divorce
    rate, but I don't think people should be planning for themselves
    when the marriage dissolves before it even starts.  that's going
    into it with the wrong idea, if you ask me.
    
    Call me a romantic, but that's not how I want MY marriage to start
    off.
    "Yes, dear, of course we are going to love and cherish each other
    forever, til death do us part, sign this paper saying you won't
    try to take my BMW"
    
    If you feel that you have to "protect yourself" from your spouse
    to be, then maybe you shouldn't be getting married in the first
    place!
    
    I know, I know, I'm unrealistic.  Feel free to jump all over me.
    
    Stacie

  why not?  i think it's a good deal!  if you truly love each other than 
  you won't think twice about it.  at that point who's thinking of divorce?
  are you really thinking..."well i WANT this and that etc.?  it's silly.

  besides, i only want what's mine and what i owe and that's all that comes
  from divorces anyway (contrary to what some divorced people might think
  in the aftermath of things!).

  of course i'm very inexperienced in divorce so shoot me down if you will...


  tlr

    It may not sound romantic, but there's no way I would ever get
    married again without my spouse-to-be signing a pre-nup agreement.
    
    I say this as I'm in the process of going through a divorce with
    my second wife (it's her second marriage, also). It's been two years
    since we separated, and our lawyers are still arguing over "the
    settlement".
    
    When we married, after having lived together for 3 years, I owned
    MY house, free and clear. My cash assets had been accumulated before
    we met. We have no children from this marriage. She has a Masters
    in Rehab Counseling and in Special Needs Education. She is employed
    as a Special Needs teacher.
    
    Yet, in Massachusetts, passed some five years ago, we have what
    is called the "Marital Assets Law", which, simply stated, says
    that whatever one brings to, or accumulates during, the marriage
    is, theoretically, up for grabs. While we do not live in an "official"
    community property state, there is the possibility that up to *half*
    of what was mine before we married, and to which she made no contri-
    bution, could become hers.
    
    If our attorneys cannot agree on a "settlement" dollar amount, then
    the case will go before a judge in Probate Court, where some arcane
    method for distributing the maital assets will be decided.
    
    So, the next time I marry (and I fully expect that someday I'll
    do it again - some people never learn), there will be a valid
    pre-nup agreement in effect, before I'll say "I do". I'll hope
    for the best in that marriage, but, legally, I'll be prepared
    for the worst. I'll never leave myself this exposed again.
    
       Alan 

    My wife and I signed such an agreement before we got married.
    
    The reason is that my wife plans to start her own company / work
    freelance at some stage in her career. Should she run up debts / go
    bankrupt, what I own (wether acquired before marriage or after) cannot
    be seized. Our appartment is owned jointly, so cannot be sold or seized
    either.
    
    PhR.

    re .2
    
    would you buy a house and not take out insurance against fire of
    theft?
    
    would you open a small business without declaring it a limited asset company
    thus leaving everything you have worked for all your life to be
    seized by creditors in the event of bankrupcy??
    
    Pre-Nuptual agreements protect BOTH parties involved. 
    
    another point? - how many people who are married have either made
    out a will or at least re-evaluated an existing will in the last
    5 years? In New Zealand, If Joe Soap dies and has no will, all his
    estate is seized by the Government - whats it like in other parts
    of this planet?
    
    I love my wife very much - but I'm not that badly lovestruck that
    I would lose all sense of logic or sensibility (particularly living
    in a country where the divorce rate is 1 in 3) Not only is such
    an agreement valuable as security by it also makes your RESPONSIBILITY
    in regards to your obligations towards your partner very clear,
    thus giving your partner a sense of personal security as well.
    
    A final interesting point - less than a year ago Sly Stallone was
    quoted as saying "I would never be so rude to my wife as to ask
    her to sign such an aggreement" - less than 3 months later she took
    him for 1/2 of everything he had - guess who wont be so "Romantic"
    or carefree again for awhile??
    
    phil 

    Wanna bet???
      Once a DOPE, ALWAYS a dope!

    
    
    But marriage itself is a legally binding contract.  The very
    act of being legally bound to another person, and (usually)
    taking vows (often in the form of promises to God, the ulitmate
    authority) in front of witnesses, bespeaks a lack of trust. 
    Prenuptual agreements are just another form of legally binding
    contract.  
    
                     Deb
    
    

    re: .0
    
    Pre Nuptial agreements .... Sounds familiar enough. All arguments are
    reasonable, depending on one's situation. 
    
    I did have a preNup for my 2nd marriage. When divorce seemed apparent,
    I had TWO New Hampshire attorneys tell me that they weren't worth
    anything in computing predictability of what would/could happen in
    court. IN other words, thye weren't worth the paper they were written
    on, and could easily be overthrown. 
    
    In any case where if one person disavowed any claim to anothers
    finances, and that person had to go on welfare; the court would be sure
    to ingore the paper in order to spare the city/county/state the expense
    of support. 
    
    The 1st time i got married I had never heard of them.
    
    The 'nice' part about a prenup agreement is that the people can put
    down on paper the methods they'll use to solve arguments or other
    conflicts; there intent of how to divide up personal net worth they are
    brining INTO the situation,and what should happen if the arrangement is
    broken. 
    
    In a sense, it could replace the traditional 'vows' oridnarily taken in
    ordinary marriages (Im my honor I'll do my best .. etc, etc ). 
    
    In my current (3rd) marriage,I don't have one. Its is not a 'belief'
    that this marriage will never be terminated. Its a certainty I'll never
    get a divorce again. ;^) 
    
    What should they contain ? Whatever is important to you and the
    other person.  That is what it should contain. Some (i have heard)
    even define who takes out the garbage,and how often they'll "make
    love" ... a euphemism meaning to 'engage in copulation with each
    other' .... ;^)
    
    Bob
    
    

    When I got married, I thought about it.  I finally decided that
    either I was married 100% forever, or I wasn't.  I couldn't go
    into it with a halfway commitment, and planning for what would
    happen if (when?) the marriage failed felt to me as though I was
    committing less than 100% of myself to the marriage.  For me, it
    was all or nothing, financially as well as emotionally.
    
    Others may have different views, needs, experiences, etc.....

    -1
    
    >>>    committing less than 100% of myself to the marriage.  For me, it
    was all or nothing, financially as well as emotionally.
    
    It could easily be, "nothing."  Easier than you think.  Do you have
    care insurance?  Health insurance?  Homeowners insurance?  If you do,
    you're gambling with those companies.....or ... do you just gamble with
    your wife?
    
    -dwight   

    re: .14
    
    Your logic escapes me.  Or, perhaps I should say, I understand what
    point you're trying to make and I just don't relate to it.  I don't
    have a loving relationship with my car.

    -1
    
    You don't have to relate, until the tides turn....
    
    -dwight