Conference quark::mennotes-v1

                                                        
    Assuming we don't know a lot about each other:
    
    If I ask a woman out, I do it expecting to pay.  If it becomes apparent
    in the course of things that she would prefer to pick up her part,
    then that's fine.
    
    If a woman asks me out, I go expecting to pick up my part of it.
    If she offers to pay for me, well, that's fine, too.
             
    DFW

    Well, I don't "date" anymore but I do go out from time to time
    in situations were a women is in a position to pay. For example,
    sometimes my mother-in-law takes us out to eat. She insists on
    paying. Sometimes when traveling she insists on paying her own
    meals. I never refuse. If she invites us I assume she'll pay.
    If we invite her we pay. If it's an in-between situation (traveling
    together) it can go either way. It's no big deal to me who pays.
    Interestingly, whenever she pays, she does it by giving me the
    money to give to that cashier/whatever. She does it for her
    comfort (she's a bit old fashioned that way) not mine.
    
    Along these lines, I once worked on a special demo at a customer
    site. Someone from the product line (this was a while ago) came
    down to help. We (myself, the FS person, the product line person,
    and the salesperson) went to lunch and as usual in these situations
    the salesperson paid. The out of towner asked the FS guy and I
    didn't it bother us to have a women pay? It took us a while to
    understand what he was talking about since we though it so natural
    for the salesperson to pay that we never thought about her being
    a women.
    
    			Alfred

    .1
    
    I like your thinking.  I have had situations where the man asked
    me out and then when the bill came said your half is $, I'll pay
    the tip.  And then he wondered why I didn't want to go out again.
    
    Usually if it's a first date, I'll say "may I take care of the tip".
    When I offer to pay for my portion, I guess I'm saying it's been
    nice but we probably won't do it again.
    
    I guess my opinions come off different than the younger women, since
    I was brought up that when a man asked you out, he was paying. 
    I am modern enough to feel when I ask a man out, I am paying.
    Although, in most cases my restaurants (since I'm a single parent)
    are probably less expensive.
    
    Susan

    I don't mind paying for the date.  I do appreciate it when the woman
    offers to pay (part or all) of the costs, though I don't expect it.

    What I find confusing/difficult is establishing the ground rules
    of who will pay what and when when I start seeing someone new. 
    After a few dates, usually a pattern gets established, so that neither
    has to say anything when the bill arrives.
    
    Rich

    I go along with the notion that if I ask a woman out, I expect
    to pay all the costs.  If she offers to split the costs, I would
    usually decline, though if she wants to pay a portion, such as the
    tip, or ice cream afterwards, that's ok.
    
    Once we're in a closer relationship, we would probably share costs
    in proportion to income.
    
    However, I'm a guy who enjoys treating ladies to nice things, so
    it doesn't bother me at all to assume most of the costs.  Actually,
    I suspect that many men would be relieved if the woman didn't
    offer to pay.
    
    I do understand circumstances where the woman doesn't feel that
    she "owes me" anything, and will thus volunteer to share costs.
    I accept this if I don't think it's a hardship on her, even though
    I am not one to think that I am "buying" anything on a date.
    
    				Steve

    Hmmm. I've always figured that the inviter gets to specify, along with
    the invitation, who is to do the paying. That is, "Can I take you to
    dinner?" means "I'm paying," no matter what sex either participant is.
    "Shall we go get some dinner?" is more likely to mean "We'll split the
    check." When in doubt, it's better to be specific: "Can I *buy*
    you dinner?"
    
    The invitee, of course, can offer alternatives: "It's my turn to
    buy," or "I'll split the check," or "Sorry, I can't get a sitter
    on Tuesdays - maybe some other time." (The latter leaves an opening
    for the inviter to offer to pay for a sitter - assuming one can
    be found - or to offer to include the offspring in the invitation.)

    (I should probably mention that my experience in such matters is
    limited. In fact, I have no experience with the baby-sitter problem
    at all, and even in my "dating" days I went out so seldom that the
    issue of who pays for what rarely came up... Nowadays, when my husband
    and I go out, "who pays" usually depends on who remembered to go
    to the credit union for cash that day!)
    
    -b

    RE: .7 I'm not much of a cook though I've gotten better.
    However, if I were to find myself single again I think
    that I'd rather try and cook for a women then take her
    out to dinner. A home is a much nicer place to talk and
    get to know someone then a restaurant. Besides I'd rather
    not appear to be the helpless man who needs a women to
    cook for him.
    
    I cooked most of my own meals from the time I was 10 until
    I went to College. I see know reason to believe that a woman
    is more capable as a cook or less capable as a spender of money
    then I am. [Of course my wife is better at both then I am but
    that is because she had a better teacher then I]
    
    		Alfred

    I think it is important to understand one's personal limitations
    as separate from one's viewpoint.  I can cook, have done so for
    women I have dated, and have found it greatly appreciated.  
    
    But if I COULDN'T cook, I would not use that as a rationalization
    that I should pay for dining out with my dates while they, if they
    wish to reciprocate, should cook a meal at home.
    
    I feel that a couple should come to SOME mutually satisfactory
    arrangement regarding meals together, which may even be that the
    man cooks at home and the woman buys dinners out.  After all, there
    are women who can't or don't like to cook also!
    
    					Steve

i suppose it's all in the way that you're brought
up...i'm of the "new generation" but i still feel
funny when it comes to paying.  what do you say,
uh, er, oh...do you want me to pick up half? etc.
i just find it very stressful...  

on the man's part it could be like saying "that's
the way it's been for years" but on the woman's 
part it could be "she's being overbearing"...

only my personal feelings

tlr

    re. 7
    
    > ... and a "real" woman will reciprocate with a home-cooked
    > meal (perhaps by candle-light) on some other evening...
    
    the best thing i could do for a man to reciprocate for a dinner
    he bought me would be NOT to offer him a home-cooked meal, candlelight
    or no candlelight, since i am a terrible cook, and as far as i can
    tell, i'm still a "real" woman.......
    
    Sandie

    
    	Several people have suggested that the proper thing to do is
    for the person doing the asking to do the paying.  While that sounds
    all well and good, I would like to point out that in my experience,
    it is still generally the man that does the asking.  Is it not a
    date unless the "askee" does the paying?  
    	I am a support engineer for the southern area.  I travel a lot
    and meet many field service engineers on the road who are strangers
    to me before the assignment.  We work together, sometimes around
    the clock.  This is clearly business, but we will often share meals.
    It is assumed, by every stranger I have ever met, that we will pay
    for our own meal.  I am not sure why this changes in a dating
    situation.	
    	It strikes me as a little self-serving for a woman to say "Well,
    he did the asking, therefore he should pickup the entire cost of
    the date" if that same woman does not or vary rarely does the asking.
    By offering to pay your share of the cost, two important messages
    are communicated.  
    	1)  I went out with you because I like you, not for a free meal
    and an evening on the town.
    	2)  If our relationship develops into something more permanent,
    I consider myself a responsible person able to pay my own way in
    life.  I will not use you to get out from under financial
    responsibility.
    	I do feel like the cost of babysitting should be considered
    when people have children.  It is after all a real cost to be borne
    and can be a lot more expensive than some people realize.  
    	Because of the confusion which surrounds this area, when I ask
    a woman out I assume that I will bear the entire cost, and if a
    woman offers to pay for her share I will generally decline the offer,
    unless she convinces me that she is sincere.  Since communication
    is generally a little awkward at first, I don't think this assurance
    is reasonable to expect.  On the other hand, I do take it as a clue
    to that person that they did offer, and take it as a positive sign,
    still communicating the two point mentioned above.  On subsequent
    dates, if a woman offeres (inspite of the fact I did the asking)
    I will take them up on it, so they better be sincere.  If that causes
    a loss of interest in going out with me, then I have learned something
    else that is very valuable, something I would prefer not to learn
    years later in a divorce court.
    
    DRC
    

    
    	I have recently been answering ads in the Atlanta Singles
    	Magazine and when first meeting a man this way I usually
    	tell him that I feel more comfortable at that point paying
    	for my share.  But after that if we continue to date, and 
    	he wants to pay, that's fine.  However, I'm not adverse 
    	to paying my share.  
    
    	With the man that I'm currently dating, a few days after we
    	met things were going quite well, we felt real comfortable
    	with each other so I invited him out to dinner (my treat)! 
    	He looked a little shocked but said "O.K.  If you really 
    	want to."  I had learned enough about him in those first 
    	few days to know that he couldn't afford to pay for *all*
    	of our dates as he's paying substantial child support and
    	is in a fairly new job so not at the level he wants to be
    	yet.  So now (after dating for almost 6 weeks) we've sort
    	of developed an understanding that sometimes he pays,
    	sometimes I pay and sometimes we split the check depending
    	on each of our individual situations.  It's not a problem
    	for us and something that we discuss and handle easily. 
    
    	Makes for a nice, easy, relaxed relationship! 
    
    	My
    

    Avec mon petit bonhomme d'amoureux, tant que j'ai ete apprentie,
    je l'ai laisse payer lorsqu'il me precisait (avant le repas) qu'il
    m'invitait, et j'ai veille a pouvoir payer ma part dans les autres
    cas. En fait, durant cette epoque, me sachant dans une position
    financiere difficile, il a presque toujours paye nos repas au
    restaurant (restaurants qui n'etaient jamais de luxe, loin de la !)
    
    A present que je suis employee, je gagne presqu'autant que lui.
    Par consequent, nous nous invitons mutuellement. Comme j'ai moins
    de charges que lui (pas de voiture, un loyer minuscule, etc), je
    me charge des repas de fetes, des huitres et du champagne, et je le
    laisse payer les pizzas, les entrecotes et les crepes. Je l'aime.

    Mais j'aime bien me faire inviter, et qu'on fasse des folies pour
    moi... jamais je ne me suis reveillee avec une pleine baignoire
    de roses rouges a mes cotes !
    
    Mon royaume pour une fleur...
    
    zoziau

    Re: < Note 154.17 by SHIRE::MILLIOT "Zoziau, BebeTigre, Chaton & Co" >
                                 -< Red Roses >-

    It's late,  I'm tired,  I'm drunk,  and I don't speak French.  But
    what the hell, its worth a shot.
    
    >Avec mon petit bonhomme d'amoureux, tant que j'ai ete apprentie,
    >je l'ai laisse payer lorsqu'il me precisait (avant le repas) qu'il
    >m'invitait, et j'ai veille a pouvoir payer ma part dans les autres
    >cas. En fait, durant cette epoque, me sachant dans une position
    >financiere difficile, il a presque toujours paye nos repas au
    >restaurant (restaurants qui n'etaient jamais de luxe, loin de la !)
     
        With my little boyfriend I have an appartment.  I layed around the
	pool until I got an invitation to buy some used auto parts. In
    	fact during the last few weeks when I was in financial difficulties
    	I got presents for not going to a restaurant ( the kind of delux
   	restaurants where the waiters wear pajama tops and loin cloths!)

    >A present que je suis employee, je gagne presqu'autant que lui.
    >Par consequent, nous nous invitons mutuellement. Comme j'ai moins
    >de charges que lui (pas de voiture, un loyer minuscule, etc), je
    >me charge des repas de fetes, des huitres et du champagne, et je le
    >laisse payer les pizzas, les entrecotes et les crepes. Je l'aime.
     
        I got a present from a fellow employee whose  name is Louie.
	As a consequence I got invited to buy Mutual funds.  I also
    	got a lot of charge cards from Louie (without paying except
    	for a miniscule lawyers fee) and I charged up a feast with
	champagne and pizzas and trenchcoats and crepes. I was hungry.
    
    >Mais j'aime bien me faire inviter, et qu'on fasse des folies pour
    >moi... jamais je ne me suis reveillee avec une pleine baignoire
    >de roses rouges a mes cotes !
    
    	Maybe I wasn't  being fair by not inviting fools to my feast...
    	I like to wake up in the morning with a plain black bag full
    	of red roses and a coyote.
    
    >Mon royaume pour une fleur...
     
    	My roommate for a flower...
    
    >zoziau

    Jake
    

    .18 is cute.  For an alternative interpretation of .17:
    
    With my [sweet babboo, honey, "little love gentleman"], since I
    have been appreniced, I have let him pay whenever he has specified
    (before the meal) that he was inviting me, and I've made sure to
    be able to pay my part in the other cases.  In fact, during this
    time, with me being in a difficult financial position, he almost
    always paid for our meals in restaurants (restaurants which were
    never deluxe, far from it !)
    
    Now that I'm employed, I make almost as much as him.  Therefore,
    we invite each other.  Since I have fewer expenses than him (no
    car, a miniscule rent, etc), I take care of the festive meals, ysters
    and champagne, and I leave him to pay for pizzas, steaks [?more
    like cheap beef, I think] and crepes.  I like it [or: I love him].
    
    But I like to get myself invited [out], and that someone does [might
    do] crazy things for me... never have I been waked with a plain
    bath of red roses at my sides !
    
    My kingdom for a flower...
    
    zoziau
    

    re .19:
    
    I liked .18 better.
    
    - M

        RE .20 [.18]
        
        Likewise!
        
        Your best yet, Jake!! :*)
        
        Andy

    RE .18,.20,.21
    
    Vous etes des affreux, des mechantes betes, des idiots et je ne
    vous parle plus, na !...
    
    
    Zoziau-qui-a-bien-rigole-quand-meme

      Re:18 and up I like it to but thanks for the real meaning.
    
      Re:22 I think I know one of the words in there "Idiots".
    
                    REK
    
    

    < Note 154.22 by SHIRE::MILLIOT "Zoziau, BebeTigre, Chaton & Co" >
    Re: .23
    
    Quote:
    
                           -< You think you're bad ?... >-
    
    RE .18,.20,.21
    
    You are awful, nasty beasts, idiots, and I'm not talking to you any
    more, nyah ! ...
     
     
    Zoziau-who-got-a-good-laugh-out-of-it-all-the-same 
    

    Unquote.