Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    
         The only problem I forsee is the possible permanent trading
    of mates, due to new found 'attractions'.
    
                                 Bubba
    

    Re: .1
    
    I doubt it - most of us are less than attractive in the nude!
    I know people who have done this, the opportunity has not arisen
    for me so far.  I don't know what I'd do, frankly.  
    
    				Steve

Is that steam bath still around in Maynard (on 27 heading away
from the Mill and town toward PKO)?

    It depends on the attitudes you start with.  If you expect it to
    cause problems, chances are it will.  If, on the other hand, you
    treat it as no big deal, then it will be no big deal.
    
    It's also real hard to get/stay aroused in water that hot (typically
    105 degrees).  Your entire body tends to turn to rubber and all
    you can think of is relaxing.
    
    Warning:
    
        DO NOT sit in a hot tub if you've been drinking (your blood vessels
        dialate and you can pass out from the shock).
        
        DO NOT sit in a hot tub if you're pregnant.
        
        DO NOT sit in a hot tub if you have a heart condition or high
        blood pressure. 
    
    Steveg (who used to own one and misses it very much)

    also do not sit in a hot tub if you are male and trying to conceive
    a baby. Recent research has shown that a man's fertility declined
    to below that necessary to conceive a child after one hot tub session,
    an did not recover for over six weeks. 
    
    I don't think I could hot tub with anyone other than my husband
    -
    but then I am embarassed as to how I look in my skin...blush

    
    Males with experience in hot tubs will know that a certain "part"
    of their anatomy will naturally gravitate upwards when nude-sitting
    in one.  If you happen to be acccompanied by nude opposite-genders,
    this can be explained away by pointing out the relativity of gravity
    as being the culprit, and not the semi-erotic implications of the
    situation.  Of course, some males have scruples and do not wish
    to deceive anyone with an untruth.  Older males might even appreciate
    the help in such an uplifting experience. |^ ]
    
    Sherm

    O.K.  enough of the stats.....where is this hot tub and what time
    should I be there!!  A friend of yours is a friend of mine;-)!
    
    							John

    	I've enjoyed the humour but will offer a more serious response.
    I am a nudist and also enjoy sharing nude bathing/hot tubbing with
    friends of both sexes.  None of my wives have shared my enjoyment
    of living without clothing.  The practice of living without clothing
    whenever practical has never - not once - resulted in my having
    an affair. 
    
    	I should add, mine is not a bathing suit ad body - far from
    it.
    
    Douglas

    
    We had a similar offer as did .0 and turned it down because
    we didn't feel comfortable with it. That was good enough for
    them so they suggested suits. No problem.
    
    We are not prudish per se, but there are too many hidden agendas
    to be casual.
    

    [Keep in mind that I'm from California, where hot-tubbing is the
    state sport...]
    
    The usual rule in the groups I hang out in (ahem) is that if you
    feel uncomfortable hot tubbing in the nude, wear a suit. Most of
    the folks I know don't (wear a suit that is). Hasn't seemed to have
    affected any of my friendships either.
    
    I drink wine (and sometimes beer) in the hot tub, but I've never
    hot-tubbed while pregnant... Seriously though, pregnant women should
    talk to their doctor before going in a hot tub. Hot-tubbing after a
    long day of skiing is HEAVEN.
    
    Americans have the most amazing attitudes towards nudity, and seem
    to think that these attitudes are natural law. In the U.S. a nude
    beach is cause for snickers and nudges, in most of Europe (ok,
    Mediterranean countries) nude beaches are de rigeur, and Americans
    are cause for snickers.
    
    ~/~ Why is public nudity a crime?
    
    	-- Charles

>   						in most of Europe (ok,
>   Mediterranean countries) nude beaches are de rigeur, and Americans
>   are cause for snickers.


    Heureusement que tu as rajoute "Mediterranean countries"... En France,
    il existe quelques camps de naturisme ici et la, mais ils sont
    relativement rares. Je me souviens d'une ile en Bretagne (oui, c'est
    l'Atlantique, pas la Mediterrannee), sauvage et perdue, ou le sein
    nu etait formellement interdit. D'ailleurs ici, a Geneve (Suisse),
    dans le village de Versoix, au bord du lac Leman, les seins nus
    sont toujours prohibes. Pauvres petites choses qui ne voient jamais
    le soleil !! :-)
    
    Et les camps naturistes sont caches, mis a l'abri des regards, comme
    s'ils renfermaient quelque chose de sale, d'amoral et d'obsene.
    
    
    Zoziau-qui-aime-le-parfum-du-vent-sur-sa-peau

     
     re .11:
     
     > Pauvres petites choses qui ne voient jamais le soleil
     
     Tu mecomprends up peu: ces petites choses brunes au centre -- elles ne
     sont pas des yeux! 
     
     Ton ami,
     
     --Mr Topaz

    Did someone say something about nude beaches?  Still on the search
    for a decent one on the New England coast...  (I admit, the one day
    two summers ago that I visited Moonstone in Rhode Island it was 
    cold and almost-drizzly, but I don't think a sunny day would improve
    it much!)
    
    CQ

    RE: .12
    
        
>    Tu mecomprends up peu: ces petites choses brunes au centre -- elles ne
>    sont pas des yeux! 


    << rire en cascade...>>

    
    Mais sii !!! D'ailleurs, regarde bien : il y en a un qui a cligne...
    :-)

    
>    Ton ami,
>    
>    --Mr Topaz
    

    Tres flattee...
    
    
     Miss Aigue-Marine

    If you want a nude beach on the New England coast, Moonstone
    is it.  If you don't mind fresh water, The Ledges in Vermont
    is enjoyable and popular.  There are a number of other lake and
    river nude beaches in Vermont, too.
    
	-Neil

	Some couples who are very close were considering swinging
	and asked Dr Ruth about it. She suggested first to all go
	naked in a hot tub and have cold champagne. In that they
	would learn about each other and see if they wanted to
	proceed :-)

    RE: .16
    
>    Tu as le double-vision, n'est-ce pas?  Le p'tit monstre n'a qu'un
>    oeil.
    

    Non, je n'ai pas bu.
    
    Quel petit monstre ?
    
    
    Zoziau-qui-fait-l'innocente-(qui-croit-avoir-tout-compris-mais-qui-ne-
    comprend-fichtre-rien)

    
    PS : C'est bien, la Nouvelle-Angleterre ?

    
    Hey, everyone come watch Mr. Topaz carry on with the lady across
    the pond!
    
    :-) (in a big way)
    
    DFW

    Well, he does have experience in such matters, right?  Hey Don,
    how about including an English translation of at least what you're
    saying?  I think that is reasonable since you do speak English
    (don't you?)
    					steve

     re .20:
     
     Manges ton coeur dehors.
     
     re .21:
     
     Sure, no problem, though my English may be a bit rusty.  As a writer
     for software products, I sometimes have to wait years before I can
     actually get something published. 
     
     > Manges ton coeur dehors.
     
     Have a nice day.
     
     --Mr Topaz

    Re: .22
    
    Ah, now I know why Blandine is so amused....
    
    Don, your French is little better than mine!  You were perhaps
    inviting Dave to a picnic?  Or were you concerned about the mess
    he might make on the carpet?  Anyway, keep up the good work.  Your
    translations make at least as much sense as your manuals! :-)
    
    					Steve

    re .22 OH but I am eating my heart out. I spent all my time in 
    French class eyeballing Anne Whats_her_name_?  She moved and
    I'm stuck here with duhhh_whuzzat_? all over my terminal.

    Re .15, I've been to both Moonstone in R.I., and the Ledges in Vermont.
     Did you ever go to the Gorge in Vermont before it was closed down?
    
    I'm not really into nude sunbathing.  I guess my mother brought
    me up to be a prude or something, but my ex-husband was into hunting
    out those places and we went to those you mentioned.  I always felt
    quite uncomfortable myself and sometimes stayed dressed (which is
    sometimes resented!)  Those nudists are like some kind of subculture.
     I found it mildly amazing.
    
    The Ledges is really pretty, though.  I was surprised to see it
    mentioned here.
    
    Lorna
    

    Re .13, Zack's Beach near Gay Head on Martha's Vineyard is beautiful,
    but I don't know if it's open anymore.
    
    I used to go there, about 8 or 9 yrs. ago, with my ex-husband. 
    We had to park at Gay Head and ride our bikes to the beach.  Nobody
    ever got bothered.  But, then Jackie Onassis bought ajoining property
    and got the town to close the beach because she thought people would
    try to get a look at her.  (which I doubt - I'd rather look at the
    Atlantic anyday)  But, last year I heard it was open again.  Don't
    know if it is or not.  
    
    They used to allow topless bathing at South Beach on Martha's Vineyard
    also.  But, I saw them brutally arrest some people there once for
    nude sunbathing.  Pretty scary since the rest of us had just hopped
    into our suits minutes before.  The police acted like they were
    murderers or something.  
    
    Personally, I'm more comfortable with clothes on but I think nude
    bathing should be legal for people who want to.
    
    Lorna
    

    Here in Munich I sometimes visit a Sauna where no-one wears clothes 
    (This is true of most private places - you have to wear
    clothes in a public baths) and is for "the whole family".  I have gone
    either on my own or in a group of friends of different sexes.
    The activities involved are swimming,  sauna and so on.  I have
    never considered there to be any problem with this as such.
    
    Simon.

    Simon:
    
    	Have you ever sunbathed nude in the park in the center of Munich?
    I 'gave it a go' the last time I was in Munich (1984) and as
    comfortable as I am in nudist colonies I was very uncomfortable there.
    Probably because so many people were semi-nude or fully clothed.
    The tourists from the U.S. taking pictures didn't help either!
    
    Douglas

    RE: .3  "steam power"
    
    The Elmwood Steam Bath is now a private residence.  The chimney
    for the sauna is still there.  
    
    Maynard had a very high proportion of Finnish immigrants during the
    19th century.  Another place Finns migrated to was Cape Ann where they
    found work as stonecutters in the quarry.  There is still a large
    Finnish community in Rockport and there is a public steam bath in
    Lanesville but I don't remember the name of it. 
    
    

    
    
    re: 28
    
    Not Munich, but Berlin.  The park right next to Tempelhof Central
    Airport, the one that has the statue of the three air corridors.
    Since many others were, we did.  Hard to take was the dressed
    folk walking thru the park.  Of course all you have to do is
    remember you're not the only one out there, and that it is
    quite normal activity for Europeans.  Most hilarious moment was
    when four nude males decided to play soccer.  All that jouncing.
    Hah!
    
    Sherman
    

      Nude is obscene- United States Supreme Court
                                         
    
                 REK

    Of course, usually the United States Supreme Court is obscene.
    God put us here without clothes, why can't we enjoy growing up without
    them?  BTW, REK, I'm not assuming that that was *your* feeling.
          
    Obscene is in the eye of the beholder.  It reminds me of a joke.
     
    This elderly lady called the police and reported that the couple
    in the apartment across the way were being obscene and she could
    see them from her window.  The police arrived and looked out the
    window and said that they couldn't even see the apartment.  The
    lady said "Well, if you climb up on the table and lean way over..."
     
    Spence

      Thats the law Spence, and no, I don't agree with it!
    BTW God did not put us here, and with that I'll leave.
     OK SO I don't believe in religon, that my choice.
    
                 REK
    PS Should this go into the bible conference?

    don't make no difference who put us here... he/she/it forgot
    the clothes... who are we to put 'em on?
    
    	bruce

     
     re (last several):
     
     If <your_favorite_deity> didn't want us to wear clothes, then 
     <your_favorite_deity> would not have created the months that have
     the letter 'r' in them.
     
     --Mr Topaz

    ..sigh......or at least had the weather stay hot all the time..
    
    kath

    so dress for the weather, not for the law....

    Fitchburg, Massachusetts has a steambath on Elm Street.  Fitchburg
    also has a large Finnish community.
    
    

    re .28
    
    I agree with your point about nude-bathing in the Englischer Garten.
    It isn't exactly private there - I found the private places in Winter
    to be very good:  No-one gawps at anyone and it seems perfectly
    natural.  But as for the Englischer Garten,  I was discussing nudity
    over dinner with some friends on Saturday.  One of them,  Louise
    from Sweden,  was distinctly paranoid about it while no-one else
    was.  From listening to her I felt that she was being rather
    imaginative in thinking that strange men were deliberately trying
    to get bodily contact:  The Eisbach is rather narrow and is not
    exactly the place to find privacy - an unfortunate place to try
    nude bathing for the first time if you are an attractive woman who
    is over-sensitive about this.  But I don't fancy being part of
    someones private film collection without getting the royalties
    so I tend to stick to quieter places!

    As for whether nudity is right or wrong - I think some people
    develop hang-ups about it - it's everyones right to have hang-ups.
    I think people should be allowed to wear clothes or go to clothed
    bathing venues if they want to. ;-)    When it comes to swimming
    I think clothes are unhygenic.  Of course people should wash before
    going swimming anyway.

    Simon.

    re: .36
    
    So, Mr Topaz, why do the trees wear "clothes" in Summer, and do not
    in Winter ?
    
    
    L'ete est fait pour gambader nu(e), l'hiver pour hiberner (au chaud
    bien sur...).
    
    
    Zoziau-qui-trouve-qu'il-fait-encore-ben-froid...

    Re: .41
    
    	Trees don't have to worry about freezin their 'nads off.
    
    	Jake

    Gee, I didn't know you were supposed to wear clothes in water! ;-)
    
    Seriously, I have very few problems with removing my clothing to enjoy
    myself. Some close friends have a hot tub and unless there is a large
    party going on, with acquaintances present and not just friends, no one
    thinks anything of walking thru the living room, shedding your clothes
    as you go and enjoying the tub. And if it's warm weather (for me above
    70) we usually don't bother putting clothes back on except to cook
    (naked bodies and grilling don't go together very well)and fend
    off mosquitoes. 
                                                             
    I've never noticed anyone getting turned on, ya can't in hot water.
    In fact one of my friends told me it helped them to get over the
    idea that you *had* to react sexually to a naked body. Besides,
    we're always sitting there talking DEC shoptalk anyway. ;-) How
    sexy is that?
    
    But, I know some people find the unclothed body upsetting in various
    ways. When there are friends around who don't want to tub nude, they
    wear suits and we don't. That doesn't bother them and everyone is
    happy.
    
    RE: Nude Beaches not in New England
    
    Orient Beach on St. Maarten. Water is 75-80 degrees year round.
    Beautiful white sand. Naturist resort there is Club Orient, very family
    centered. Great place, everyone is polite and no one cares if you want
    to dress up and wear a sarong for a while. Good manners says you
    shouldn't stare at the strangely dressed people though. ;-) 
    
    Tamzen
                                                             

    Well, I've presented her with all of this positive stuff but she
    still won't budge.  She says that she just doesn't believe in going
    nude in front of friends.  Oh well, maybe in time.  
    
    Thanks for the input.  It didn't make my plight any better but its
    a hell of an interesting note. >;v)
    
    Spence

    SPENCE,  how about a compromise? 
    
    Youall go in nude, and your wife is on her own, maybe after she
    has a chance to experience it a few times the 'unknown' won't seem
    so frightening.
    
    A little personal experience to make a point: I spent 4 summers
    as a white-water raft guide in the Rockies from Montana to Arizona.
    Each year we do a couple of one week 'private' trips (friends and friends
    of friends). All trips in the Deserts (utah, arizona) ended up with
    most people in the nude (or semi-nude). It just kind of happens
    naturally (pardon the pun) with one or two people stsrting it off
    casually. Most of the veteran's pick up on it right away.

    Quite often there are people who after a couple of days figure that
    there " hey, this nude stuff ain't so bad after all " and join the fun.
    There are always a couple of people out of the 15-20 that don't join
    in, but the point is nobody cares! This is a SENSUAL not Sexual
    type of gratification. I've gone a whole week wearing nothing but
    a hat, life jacket, tennis shoes, and 'heavy on the 30 weight' (suntan
    lotion)
    
    On trips up in Idaho on the Salmon ( where it is much colder,
    especially in MAY) include several hot springs (natual, organic
    hot tubs) and invariably the nude hot springs bathers out number
    the non-nudes and nearly nudes). The same was true for over 7 years
    at the Gardner river hot springs in Yellowstone park.
    I confirm others' experience that no overt sexual orgies/affairs
    have ever come out of this. (WHat goes on at night, in tents or
    out on the white sandy river beaches, I can only say from personal
    experience)
    
    The point is that if you and your friends, especially your friend's
    wife (or SO) go in naked, YOUR wife will see that nothing horrible
    comes of this, and if you don't pressure her, she may even try it
    some day.
    
    Good Luck.
    

    Re: .47
    
    Where did we start talking about strong sunlight?  I'll agree that
    that's the one place you'd hate to get a sunburn!
    
    Heat is indeed a factor in reducing sperm production, but it tends
    to be temporary (unless one really overdoes it, I guess).
    				Steve

    Well, reproduction is not an issue, believe me.
    
    I have been sunburned there and it is miserable.  I fell asleep.
    Thank God for cotton!
                                             
    I have recently been told by her that if another woman has occasion
    to see *me*, then *I* will be in trouble.  I assume that this only
    pertains to a woman who knows me.
    
    Spence

    This looked like a somewhat dead file but I thought I'd tell you
    our experience.
    
    We had been going to a 'hot tub' establishment for a year or so
    and told some close friends about it.  Their bodies (and mine) weren't
    going to win any beauty contests so we all decided to wear suits.
    While in the tub, Bob (my hubby) and I mentioned to our friends
    how much better the water felt on your skin instead of having to
    seep thru the suits.  While still sitting in the water, our friends
    took off their suits and liked it.  We then proceeded to take off
    our suits (thank goodness!) and when it came to getting out at the
    end of our hour, nobody appeared to be embarressed.
    
    We have other friends that own a tub and no way could we 'tub' nude.
    They have young children and are very modest people.  Nudity has
    a time and place and when it is right, it's great.
                       
    We have since joined a clothes optional hot springs establishment
    and became friends with a couple from Denver.  We were able to see 
    each other this weekend and joked about 'how they looked strange 
    with clothes on!'. ;-}                                   
                                                      
    After a one weekend at the hot springs, I returned to work with a bad
    sunburn all over my bod.  I got many comments since I was a security
    officer at the time.  One that cracked me up was about the 'raccoon'
    look I was sporting (from wearing sunglasses)...this guy said 'boy,
    you're lucky you had on your glasses'.  I told him that's all I
    had on!  And did he ever get red, worse than my sunburn!
    
    To me there is nothing to be embarressed about.  Besides the apparent
    differences between the 2 sexes, we all pretty much have the same 
    equipment, we just come in different shapes and sizes!  Just relax
    and enjoy. :-)
    
    Judy
                  

	BTW, the couple I talked about that took off their suits while
    in the tub, when we get together to tub now there are NO suits
    around!