Conference quark::mennotes-v1

	Please don't take this the wrong way, but what is this note doing here?
	Surely Racism isn't a only topic. I feel perhaps that maybe it should 
	be in H_R or even soapbox, but then I've been wrong before.

Richard.

    I don't believe this topic really belongs in this conference.  
    
    - M (co-moderator)

    Racism like sexism are parts of the human condition.  Shouldn't
    they both be equally acceptable topics for discsussion? 
    Perhaps this note could also be opened in soapbox for the political
    side and allow a discussion from the point of view of human
    feelings here?

	This Bonnie, is mennotes, Human Relations is the file for,
	would you believe, Human relations?

Richard.

    sometimes I forget which one I am reading... but the "why"
    still stands, or perhaps the gentleman who started the base
    note would put it in human relations.

    I think that this is really a SOAPBOX topic.
    
    			Steve (HUMAN_RELATIONS co-moderator)

    RE: .0
    
    See, how fast this topic is moving towards getting write-locked?
    Even without a single flame being entered?
    
    I would certainly like to know why this topic can not be discussed in
    H_R.  I do not think that this topic is frivilous enough to warrant a
    discussion in SOAPBOX.
    
    Do we need a separate conference to discuss RACISM?  Do we need a
    separate conference to discuss minority issue?  If so, do you plan to
    be an active participant in it?
    
    - Vikas

    I don't see any topic presented for discussion - simply an opinion
    in .1 on the existance of racism.  I don't agree that a topic has
    to be "frivolous" to be in SOAPBOX, but I could see this as a
    HUMAN_RELATIONS topic if it were started with some serious ideas
    for discussion, questions, etc.  So far all I see is a blanket
    statement - what does one do with that?
    
    I think one important distinction is that HUMAN_RELATIONS tends
    to concentrate on personal involvement in the topics, whereas
    SOAPBOX tends more towards abstract pontificating.  If there was
    a more personal angle to the base note, then H_R would be
    an appropriate place for it.
    
    					Steve

    This topic was clearly and openly broached in note 5 .
    "Dont call me boy ...boy". Certain responses to that note
     were ,in my opinion already discussing the topic. See
    "You can call them boy if they trust you".
    It puzzles me immensely that no discussion ensued regarding the
    content and direction of that note.
    What i am getting out of this is that some of you feel perfectly
    comfortable discussing racism ,if only you can keep it within 
    the comfort zone of a certain perspective . I know that this 
    topic is painfull to all ,regardless of race .The point here is
    that if you are going to discuss it . DO IT IN THE OPEN DAMN IT!
    
    < flame off> If we are not going to discuss it ,then let's not discuss
    it at all . I should add that this notesfile has plenty of other
    meaningful topics which i find thought -provoking, humorous and
    of significant value in understanding my own life as a man.
    
    
    (:-}) Robin
    
    

    Yes, I agree.  It deserves to be discussed in the open, not hidden
    in MENNOTES!!  Who in the general noting community would ever think
    to look in this conference for a discussion of racism??
    
    A coworker mentioned starting a BLACKNOTES (or maybe African-American)
    conference about 6 months ago.  I think it's a fantastic idea. 
    There's a Jewish notes file, Indianotes, etc.  I can't see where
    it would necessarily create "ill will."

        No reason  why  the issue(s) shouldn't be discussed here - at
        least to begin  with,  and  if  it  turns  out  that there is
        sufficient interest then find  a host and devote a conference
        to discussion.
        
        One point I'd like to make - instead of using a title bearing
        negative connotations  ..'RACISM'..   why  not  try something
        more positive, 'Inter-racial Harmony' maybe??
        
        Andy
        

    I agree that this topic could prove interesting, however, in a NOTES
    file that pertains to "men's issues", I think its misplaced.  I
    feel that note 5 got off on a tangent, as does nearly every note
    in this conference, but the tangent should be stopped instead of
    simply giving it a new place to grow.  Of course, if nobody wants
    the topic, we simply don't have to respond to it and it will die
    anyway.  Its hard to argue with oneself.
    
    Note 5 originally pertained to men being referred to as 'boy', not
    blacks being referred to as 'whatever'.
    
    Spence

    Its odd, but the term "Racism" makes people "feel" uneasy.  Just
    the word itself brings up feelings of guilt( because most people
    are capable of being a "racist" at one time or another, yes even
    the most liberal of us all.) It makes us all regardless of color,
    "uncomfortable".  But it is a topic that should be discussed, in
    any forum, because after all, racism occurs in many ways.  Mennotes
    could be THE most appropriate notesfile for a discussion, afterall
    (hold the flames folks), most of the atrocities committed against
    blacks were and still are initiated by the white male. (KKK, Aryan
    nation  etc) and its not an easy subject and often we choose to
    ignore things if they prove to painful.  But its food for thought
    isn't it.  Notice how the original note 75.0 was really just a word...
    
    This note brought an "air" of chill to the file, that should tell
    us something about the nature of sensitivity surrounding this subject.
    
    H_R???   Mennotes?????   Soapbox????  Black - American Notes?????
    
    
    The forum is secondary,,,,let the discussion begin!
    
    J

    Please, we've hinted enough.  This is not topic material for this
    conference.  We belive this is a good topic, but fail to understand
    its suitablitly in a conference on "MEN'S ISSUES".  
    
    This topic has been set /nowrite.
    
    Please feel free to continue this discussion in TheNewSOAPBOX.
    
    - M