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Conference quark::mennotes-v1

Title:Topics Pertaining to Men
Notice:Archived V1 - Current file is QUARK::MENNOTES
Moderator:QUARK::LIONEL
Created:Fri Nov 07 1986
Last Modified:Tue Jan 26 1993
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:867
Total number of notes:32923

25.0. "Dating and emotional barriers..." by NEXUS::MORGAN (Walk in Balance...) Thu Nov 20 1986 04:04

    I am having a dating problem that has reoccured twice in a row now.
    Being divorced (6 years) and having been alone for about 2 years I have
    started dating again. 
    
    Well the last two ladies I have dated were previously dated by so
    called "Jerks".  I can understand that women will make choices that
    aren't in their best interest (men do that too?) but what torques my
    little screw is that I have to _work_ twice as hard to convince them
    that I really care about them. 
    
    I send flowers, take them out, wine and dine them and then they place a
    buffer between themselves and me because I _might_ be a Jerk. 
    
    Another problem I have is that women _seem_ to fall for jerks, guys
    that just want a quick lay and then duck out of the scene. Consequently
    when I meet them afterwards I get a suspicious attitude and an
    emotional barrier from them that I have to work to break through.
    
    How about it guys and gals.  Is there anything I can say or do to
    circumvent this problem?
    
      Mikie? 
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25.1RDGENG::LESLIEAndy `{o}^{o}' Leslie, ECSSE, OSI.Thu Nov 20 1986 07:1624
    
    In essence, I'd say that it's their problem, not yours.
    
    Not having been in this situation for some 12 years, I can only
    recall my own 'rules for dating' dimly, but one strong one was that
    the woman *wanted* to date me. If she didn't, I saw no reason to
    persue the matter ad nauseam.
    
    However, my continuing experience of human relationships may be
    able to contribute smething here...
    
    There is sensitivity in a relationship, which I agree with. There
    is a great deal to be said for being aware of your partners needs
    but at the same time this should be reciprocated. Your partner(s)
    should be told what they are doing to you, it may well be that they
    don't know.
    
    If, after all this, they continue to act as before, then I would
    suggest you find someone more attuned to the satisfaction of mutual
    needs, which is where the stability of my marriage is based.
    
    Best of luck
    
    Andy
25.2BEING RUSHEDSAHQ::CARNELLThu Nov 20 1986 16:367
    
                          
    I wouldn't like receiving gifts after just a couple dates.  It would
    make me uncomfortable, even flowers.  When the relationship was getting 
    more involved then would be the time (not at the beginning).
                  
    
25.3An enlightening book?CARLIN::LEMAIRESarah Hosmer LemaireThu Nov 20 1986 18:396
    
    There's a book out called "Smart Women, Foolish Choices".  Big best-
    seller.  I don't know anything about it.
    
    SHL
    
25.4Be Patient!ANT::WOLOCHThu Nov 20 1986 23:0812
    There are many women that would love to receive flowers on the first
    or second date.  I think its a very romantic gesture.  I don't think
    it's right to judge women in general by your experience with two
    women.  I personally avoid men that think women are jerks.  Why
    fight a losing battle?  There are plenty of single people out there.
    I KNOW it takes time to find someone compatible, but its worth the
    wait.  You say they are generalizing that all men are jerks, but
    now you are generalizing that (all) women think men are jerks. 
    I think you simply must be patient.  I firmly believe that there
    are many kind, thoughtful (single) women, and there are many kind,
    thoughtful (single) men.  Sometimes its not easy to find them.
    Be patient.
25.5doink der aint no formulaeCEODEV::FAULKNERmoderatorSat Nov 22 1986 05:221
    i think u shud by them the taj mahal and stand back and watch
25.6They sound brain-hurt!RSTS32::TABERIf you can't bite, don't bark!Tue Nov 25 1986 17:1239
There's an interesting phase that we all go thru right after being
dumped or doing the dumping.  It doesn't matter who the previous 
person was because sensitivities just run too high and we are prone
to irrational feelings, being overly cautious or not cautious enough,
being cynical or doubtful, or even doing things we wouldn't normally
do.... like hurting people who are trying to be nice to us.

This is called "the brain damage" phase.

It's a result of tooting your emotions full-steam and running into
a brick wall.  These women must have drained themselves dry emotionally
and are now taking it out on you.

Jerks don't last forever and neither do memories of jerks.

Accept that these 2 are still "brain-bruised" and back off nicely
with a "Gee, why don't I give you a call in a little while..." and
maybe pick up the phone in a month and find out how life goes?
They may be more receptive to your kindnesses.

In the meantime, YOU will not become cynical or hurt by what they're doing,
and you can approach them with the same interest.

Or, in the meantime, can explore the possibilities of a relationship with
someone who is emotionally healthy right now.

I guess my advice is that you can do nothing about it, and those 2 are not
in any shape to benefit from your loving expressions, and rather than
you TOO becoming a member of the brain damaged club, is best to seek
new avenues.

Everyone is brain damaged at some point, but most of us heal.  My husband
and I connected up just after a very painful rebound for me, and he
gave me my distance and acknowledged my brain-bruises, and 3 years later,
we're very happily married.

Take care -- 

Bugsy
25.8Birds of lasting memories.GENRAL::SURVILToo hip to be squareTue Nov 25 1986 17:597
    
    
    	RE:.7
    
    	I resemble that remark! |^)
    
    	Todd
25.9Maybe there ought to be a Jerks AnonymousRSTS32::TABERIf you can't bite, don't bark!Tue Nov 25 1986 18:049
If jerks last forever for you, you're not handling your life very
well.  I apologize if I wasn't clear, but there are as many jerks
in your love life as you're willing to tolerate.

Granted, there's always another jerk right around the corner, but
hopefully, at some point, we all learn their mating calls and
their markings, and we learn to avoid them.

Bugsy
25.12Perfect woman?NEXUS::MORGANWalk in Balance...Tue Dec 02 1986 03:5624
            I ran across this today, it seems appropiate for the subject.
    
            According to an old Sufi tale, Nasruddin and his friends were
         sitting in a cafe, drinking tea, and talking about love and
         life. 
           "How come you never got married, Nasruddin?"
           "We'll," said Nasruddin, "to tell the truth I spent my youth
         looking for the perfect woman.  In Cairo, I met a beautiful
         and intelligent woman, with eyes like dark olives, but she
         was unkind.  Then in Baghdad, I met a woman who was a
         wonderful and generous soul, but we had no interests in
         common. One woman after another would seem just right, but
         something would always seem to be missing.  Then one day I
         met her.  She was beautiful, intelligent, generous and kind.
         We had everything in common.  In fact, she was perfect." 
           "Well", said Nasruddin's friend, "what happened?  Why didn't
         you marry her?" 
            Nasruddin sipped his tea and reflected.  "Well", he replied,
         "it's a sad thing.  Seems she was looking for the perfect
         man." 

         Bummer city!
    
           Mikie?
25.13COMET2::MARTINOver forty victim of fateTue Dec 02 1986 11:577
    
    	RE: .12
    
    	That was good!
    
    
    	C.
25.14"...that was no lady..."ZEPPO::LAMBERTAll in a days work...Tue Dec 02 1986 20:595
    	RE: .12
    
    	That wasn't Nasruden! that was ME!!!!!!

	-rfl
25.15based on casual observationRANCHO::RAHDid I studduh?Tue Dec 09 1986 18:2110
    women in calif singles clubs             men
    age- approx quantity                     age- approx quantity
    20 -                                     20 -  ****
    25 -                                     25 -  ***********
    30 - **                                  30 -  **************************
    35 - ****                                35 -  ***************************
    40 - ********                            40 -  *********************
    45 - *************************           45 -  ************
    50 - **********************              50 -  ***********
    55 - *********                           55 -  ***
25.16Go for it?GUMDRP::HAINSWORTHShoes and ships and sealing waxTue Jan 13 1987 21:4523
    Back to the original note, about dating women (or men?) with
    emotional scars from previous relationships...
    
    It sounds like an uphill battle, doesn't it?  But might it not
    be worth all the hassle?  I would tend think so.  Your mission,
    should you choose to accept it, is to help her to relearn (or
    learn?) that not all men are jerks.  You will need a lot of
    patience, and you should resign yourself to the fact that you
    will almost certainly end up "just friends" (although perhaps
    very close ones). 
    
    Gosh, just like a knight in shining armor, eh?  
    
    Examine your own needs.  Do you need primarily support and
    security?  If so, try to find "healthier" women.  If you can
    usually stand on your own two feet, and desire primarily
    companionship, then go for it -- the potential reward is a
    very strong friend for life.
    
    What do you think?  Can we stir up some controversy?
    
    John
             
25.17RE::GIRLSWLDWST::GUTIERREZMon Feb 27 1989 17:113
    MIKEY,IF YOU ARE STILL HAVING PROBLEMS WITH GIRLS LIKE YOU MENTIONED
    THEN I WOULD TELL YOU THAT THEY ARE JUST SLEAZES.
    AG
25.18no comment....SSDEVO::GALLUPIt's a terminal drama...Wed Mar 01 1989 02:078
	 RE: .17

	 Pardon me??????  What did I just read?

	 hummm.....

	 k
25.19Appropriate for a non-SOAPBOX file?TLE::FISHERWork that dream and love your life.Thu Mar 02 1989 19:2610
	 RE: .17

	Might be a good idea to take some of that language off-line.
	That stuff can make people feel de-valued.  

	Just a suggestion....


							--Ger
25.20we don't say things like that here...IAMOK::KOSKII'd rather be in Winter HavenThu Mar 02 1989 19:494
    re .17  Does some one volunteer to teach this individual some noting
    etiquette? I think that warrents a set/hidden by the moderators.
    
    Gail
25.21QUARK::LIONELThe dream is aliveThu Mar 02 1989 20:4910
    Well, this moderator is just as astonished by the opinion in .17
    as anyone here, but I don't see anything that legitimately calls
    for the note being hidden.  The note doesn't insult anyone
    identifiable, and doesn't use profanity.  The opinion expressed
    is, in my view, distasteful, but isn't a violation of the conference
    rules.
    
    If you think I'm missing something, please send me mail about it.
    
    				Steve
25.22thoughtsWMOIS::B_REINKEIf you are a dreamer, come in..Fri Mar 03 1989 01:1811
25.23SSDEVO::GALLUPIt's a terminal drama...Fri Mar 03 1989 20:188
	 RE: -.1

	 All CAPS or not, the word sleaze is a very derogatory term
	 and people should think twice before using it....especially
	 when referring to a generic group of people.

	 k
25.25Waddya mean by that?PH4VAX::MCBRIDEveni,vidi...2 out of 3 ain't bad!Fri Mar 03 1989 21:495
    Can we get a definition of the term?  Perhaps an explanation of
    teh sentiment is in order.  People of all types do 'low down' things
    at times for reasons unkown.
    
    Bob
25.26"Get a grip or take a hike baby"TIPTOP::CSSST10the USS Midway is not Nuclear poweredSat Jun 24 1989 18:0131
    
    First I'll apologize guys that I can't SET HOST to my node
    and being in training this week I got this TEST account, but
    IT's really me ... Christopher, honest
    
    RE: .25
    >> people of all types do 'low down' things at times
    
    I don't want to agree with this Bob, but when I sit back
    and then add all this ELECTRONIC crap (notes/mail) that
    is available to hide behind... well, I have to agree.
    
    How can you gauge someone from an unknown distance sitting
    at a VTxxx somewhere???  How can you really get an image of
    a person without a Kodak ?? I can't understand why it's so
    hard to say... I'm 5' 10" 170lbs Blonde Hair, Blue eyes
    I dress very well and its comfortable for ME.
    
    The electronic media (notes/mail) give an extension to me
    to say hello to others in the company and voice MY opinions.
    But I don't believe it's fair to misrepresent anything about
    me ... nor do I feel others have a right to do that.
    
    This life I feel is it, this is not a dress rehersal for the
    next time around. To me HONESTY is first and foremost the
    number 1 major ingredient required in meeting, coversation
    and dating. I go out of my way to say how I really feel,
    and to talk about my self ... is it too much to ask in return???
    
            Christopher
    
25.27DICKNS::WELLCOMESteve Wellcome (Maynard)Fri Apr 27 1990 14:1726
    "Blessed is he (she) who has no expectations, because he (she)
    shall not be disappointed."
    
    I'm not sure if this exactly relevant to this note, but it may help.
    A few years ago I was in a counseling group.  In the same group
    was a guy I'll call James.  James was early 40's, muscular, tall,
    handsome, slightly graying at the temples, reasonably rich, athletic,
    and a reasonably sensitive guy, with a magentic attraction for women.
    I walked in there the first night, met this guy, and said to myself,
    "If *this* guy is having trouble with relationships, there is no
    hope for me."
    Well, as time went on and James talked about this great woman he'd
    met but it didn't work out, and that great woman he'd met but it
    didn't work out, and so on, and so on, and so on..., it became
    pretty obvious to everyone (except James) that he was meeting some
    great women with whom he could have had some dynamite relationships
    if he'd just let go and enjoyed them for what they had to offer.
    HOWEVER, none of them quite fit the "ideal" images in his head,
    so he was perpetually doomed to disappointment.  
    
    So...I think if you can enter a relationship with no preconceived
    ideas of what it "should" be or where it "ought" to go, and just
    let it happen, it may happen.  You can't make anybody like you.
    If it's destined to work, it will happen dispite your best efforts.
    If it's not destined to happen, it won't happen dispite your best
    efforts...if you're lucky.