Conference quark::human_relations

    Get a second opinion...
    
    Just because a person has a sign out front saying counselor doesn't
    mean he's 'god'. Maybe he's not the person that can help you.
    
    Get referrals...ask other people who they have worked with.
    
    This is a good place to ask. Maybe you could tell your general
    location and then we could connect you with someone in your area.

    
    	Re - anon;
    
    	I think you'd feel a lot better if you could imagine the doctor
    predicating his statement with something like "This is probably a lot
    more about me and the particular counseling skills I have, than it is
    about you, but..."
    
    	There may be some truth to that. Perhaps what you were presenting
    to him wasnt a "good fit" for what *he* was able to deal with. Try
    someone else; keep searching until you can find someone who has the
    ability to counsel you on your specific issues.
    
    	It must feel pretty bad; maybe you can feel better about what
    happened if you look at it as the _doctor's_ shortcoming, rather than
    your own. That's hard to do because in our training, we been led to
    believe that "the doctor" is some sort of authoritarian or "above us"
    mere mortals - they somehow qualify for our automatic trust and
    respect. They're not and they dont. They screw up all the time, just
    like anyother human being and IMHO this one did you a disservice by not
    clarifying "This is probably a lot more about me than it is about you". 
    
    	Good luck to you,
    
    	Joe

Certainly it's not pleasant to be dismissed by the doctor.

But do you have any idea why ?  For example, was someone violent in the
office, or overly angry, or something else that scared the doctor ?

You haven't told us anything about what happened leading up to the
dismissal.

/Eric

>My partner and I have been to 2 sessions with a psychologist.  As
>the end of the second session approached, the Doctor said that
>he didn't feel he had helped us at all and that, with our problems,
>he didn't feel like he ever could and dismissed us as patients.
    
>I love this man very much and I really want to work things out and to 
>be told that it is basically hopeless is devastating to say the least.
    
    The doctor said he didn't feel that he could help you.  That's all
    he said.  What you heard was "Your condition is hopeless."  He didn't
    say that.  Find another counselor, and hope that he/she is as honest
    as this first one.
    
    					andrew

    If you are with a competent counselor, you have the right to
    ask for a more detailed explanation.  I don't feel that a 
    counselor can decide that a problem cannot be worked out in
    that amount of time.  It sounds like the counselor has another
    agenda and doesn't want to continue working with you two.  Was
    the counselor asked if he could provide you with a referral?

    I, myself, have been to counselors that I have learned to walk
    away from for various reasons.  I am lucky in that my main 
    counselor and I have worked together on and off since 1976.  She
    is a pastoral counselor and very ethical.  There are a load of
    turkeys out there in the field.  Even HMO's send you to turkeys!
    One has to become a knowledgeable consumer in this field in order
    to be serviced properly.  

    Sometimes a counselor has a bad personality match that might not
    have shown up right away.  This could have happened to you.  Keep
    on trying and do let us know the general area you will travel for
    counseling and the general issues you and your partner are wanting
    to work through.  This might help those of us who have had experience
    with different counselors know where you just might find a fit.

    justme....jacqui

     

    Just think of it like going to any other specialist....
    
    If you went to an eye specialist and he said your problem wasn't in his
    field you'd find out what type of specialist you needed to see and go
    to them...
    
    
    I would say that you got a lucky escape from this counsellor and its
    better to leave him now than to spend lots of time and money (time
    which could potentially be destructive) finding out he isn't right.
    
    
    
    
    
    Xtine
    

    
    	What sort of questions does one ask when meeting with
    a counselor or therpaist for the first few sessions? Some
    are uncomfortable talking about certain subjects or feel
    threatned by certain behavior or action. Thanks.. 
    
    -Thomas 

    I think you'd have to meet and talk a few times before making a
    judgement. Just remember they are people tooo. Some are 'real'
    knowledgeable...some are in for the $$$...some have problems.
    
    This is where your discernment comes in.
    
    Hang in there.
    
    

 My Ex-Wife and I were seeing a marriage counselor prior to our sepperation
 and subsequent divorce. The counselors exact words to me were ...

 "If you are looking to save your marriage you're wasting your time.
  If you would like help getting over your marriage and getting on with
  your life then I can help you"

 I couldn't believe this counselor said this to me. I was very upset to
 say the least. However looking back now I realize there was nothing
 this counselor could do because in confidence my ex said she no-longer
 wanted to be married and wanted a divorce. She was also having an affair
 with a co-worker which was kept secret from the counselor as well. The
 counselor knew that it was a waste of time to try to work on saving a
 marriage where one spouse wants out. Maybe in your case your SO has stated
 something similar to the psychologist or by their words or actions the 
 psychologist summizes this and thus realizes that it is futile to continue
 this counseling unless both parties are willing. You may search for another
 counselor but if you're partner isn't a willing participant you are wasting
 your money since no counselor in the world can help someone who doesn't want
 or think they need help. If your partner thinks you are the problem BEWARE!
 for as my wise counselor also said to me. "She will make you jump through
 hoops for her and each time the hoops will get smaller until you can nolonger
 get through and the outcome will be the same but your self esteem will also
 be ruined."

 Best Wishes!

    Neil....

    
    The following reply is being posted anonymously. You may contact the
    author by mail, by sending your communication to me and I'll be glad to
    forward it on. Your message will be forwarded with your name attached,
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Re .0:

I am currently working toward licensure as a therapist and would agree
with what some of the other noters have said -- this therapist sounds to
me like he has a good sense of himself and what types of problems he
can work with effectively.  I would say that he acted in a very professional
and ethical manner by letting you know that he didn't believe he could
help you.  The one thing that seems to be missing is that I would have expected
him to provide you with some referrals (this is what I have been trained to
do in this circumstance).  

Someone else also mentioned that this could have been about *his* "stuff."
If some of your issues were too close to his own, making it terribly
difficult to maintain good boundaries and an appropriate attitude, he was
quite right to terminate treatment with you, although it sounds like his
explanation may have been too vague for you.

The short answer to your question about whether this is unusual is "no."

Re .7:

This is a great question and a hard one to answer but I have some
thoughts.

1.  Ask the therapist how long they have been licensed (if licenses are
    required in your state) and whether they have ever had any disciplinary
    action taken against them by the licensing board or similar.

2.  Find out how much experience they have had working with your specific
    type of issue(s) such as depression, anxiety, relationships, substance
    abuse, domestic violence, etc.

3.  You might want to ask them what their "orientation" is, or how they
    would work with you.  Will they take a more behavioral approach and
    work on changing specific behaviors or will they work from the inside
    out, trying to help you learn what the emotional "roots" of your
    issues and behaviors are?  Do they see therapy as a brief, problem-focused
    endeavor or as a longer term exploratory process leading to change?

4.  If you are involved in outside "self-help" groups, find out if the
    therapist supports this additional work, or what his/her feelings are
    about it.

5.  Have they had their own therapy?  I certainly wouldn't say that a
    therapist who hasn't had therapy isn't a good one, but I would
    lean toward one who has had (or is in) therapy and is open and honest
    about it.  Some argue that ongoing therapy for therapists is really
    important to help them maintain good boundaries and healthy
    relationships with their clients.  

The most important thing is noticing how you feel about the person, does
he/she seem open and honest?  Do you feel relatively comfortable with
them?  Do they seem to react defensively to your questions rather than
giving them a clear and direct answer?  If they seem defensive or uncomfortable
can you comment on it and are they willing to talk with you about it?  
Finally, does it seem like they are *very* clear about their role as
your therapist (they aren't trying to create a friendship or take on
other inappropriate roles)?

    
    The following reply is being posted anonymously. You may contact the
    author by mail, by sending your communication to me and I'll be glad to
    forward it on. Your message will be forwarded with your name attached, 
    unless you request otherwise.
    
    
I want to thank everyone for their advice and suggestions.
They really gave me a lot to think about and offered some
new perspective on this thing.

I also want to apologize for not being clear in the basenote.
The Dr. dismissed us because noone could help us with our
problems (the relationship is statistically doomed); hence no 
referrals.  I understand that that is his opinion, and I can
see a hint of truth in it, but the fact that we want to
try should mean something.  So...I would really appreciate any 
recommendations anyone may have for another therapist.  
This guy was in Lexington; but anywhere in the Maynard or Southern 
New Hampshire area would be fine.

Thanks again.

 

    Is there violence in the relationship???  Before anyone can
    make referrals, it really is necessary to protect any therapist
    for this task.  

    It also might help if you could lightly touch upon the issue
    this therapist says you are doomed not to overcome.  My belief
    system is that if both parties are vested in getting to a 
    healthy relationship and are willing to go through the hellish
    process to reach it, then why give up!  Old dogs do learn new
    tricks and it is never to late to refocus onto healthy mentalities.

    Where there is hope there is a source to reach for.

    justme....jacqui

    
    The following reply is being posted anonymously. You may contact the
    author by mail, by sending your communication to me and I'll be
    glad to forward it on. Your message will be forwarded with your name
    attached, unless you request otherwise.
    
Re .-1 Jacqui

>>> Is there violence in the relationship???  
    
Absolutely not.

>>>It also might help if you could lightly touch upon the issue
>>>this therapist says you are doomed not to overcome.
    
The statistic he referenced was that 2 in 10 people don't recover from 
issues associated with past relationship induced traumas.
 
>>>My belief system is that if both parties are vested in getting to a 
>>>healthy relationship and are willing to go through the hellish
>>>process to reach it, then why give up!  
    
Mine too (stubborn Taurus) - great wording!
 
>>>Where there is hope there is a source to reach for.
    
thank you.

    Are you talking childhood based???

    

    > The statistic he referenced was that 2 in 10 people don't recover from 
    > issues associated with past relationship induced traumas.
    
    Maybe I'm naive, but this doesn't look like bad odds (80% *do* recover).
    
    Leslie
    

Good eyes, Leslie!

And even if it was a typo, and our anonymous noter was told
that only 20% recover, I'm of the opinion that it's up to
the individual/couple whether they want to try to be one of those 20%.

I guess I second the "Get a second opinion" crowd.

- Deb B.