| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 80.1 | | CRISTA::MAYNARD | The Front Row Kid | Thu Oct 27 1994 15:23 | 2 |
| If you love something set it free...
If it's meant to belong to you, it will come back...
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| 80.2 | | WRKSYS::MACKAY_E | | Thu Oct 27 1994 15:32 | 24 |
|
re .0
It sounds to me that:
1. She needs some time to sort things out.
She is confused about her own feelings
and the entire situation.
2. She does not seem to be mature, ie. not
understanding human needs and relationships.
3. You are really not part of her life, yet.
You cannot be a part of her processing.
4. But then, if you really care about her
what is a couple of months? Leaving her
while she is in turmoil?!
Eva
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| 80.3 | she needs to be by herself | MROA::MAHONEY | | Thu Oct 27 1994 15:40 | 17 |
| Obviously there were deep feelings in both of them, we are humans and
tend to do lots of mistakes... I think he did a big "boobo" by getting
stray and the sensible thing after that was to cut loose but that
doesn't mean that feelings are not there... You filled a void she had,
and when her ex was dying and called her, she went... now she needs
time to mourn and time to heal...
She needs time, that's all, and she should have it. All you can do now
is wait, time will tell if there is "real" love or just a need for
companionship, a need to fill a void... time will tell. Do you find
yourself willing to wait? maybe yes... maybe not... and in that case,
she did the right thing and each one of you could go on with life.
I "know" that after a close relative's death there must be a time to
heal and accept the loss and it takes TIME to mend......
Suerte
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| 80.4 | Look Honestly... | 43GMC::KEITH | Dr. Deuce | Fri Oct 28 1994 11:02 | 37 |
| Let us examine some things:
1 You have been in a relationship with this woman for ~2 years.
2 She is/was legally divorced from this person.
3 >After this, she asked me to be certain to leave
>before her ex brother-in-law showed up.
4 >She could see that I was kind of hurt by this and explained that
>she didn't want to have to explain who I was.
I do not mean to be hurtful, but #3 & 4 say it all. After ~2 years she
can't 'explain' you to her 'ex' brother-in-law? You are an
embarrasment? You are chopped liver? What?
This is hard, but apparently you do not mean a whole lot to her. She should
be looking to you, among others, for support during these times if you
were someone special in her life.
>I feel like I should just walk away, do my crying,
>and get on with my life because I think I only played a
>small role in hers.
Based upon what I have said and what you feel, take approriate actions.
>But I'd rather believe that it ain't bad and that things
>will work out in the future. Sigh.
All of us would rather feel this way. You invested your time and love
in this woman. It is always painful to come up short in the end, 2nd
best and 2nd place. You deserve better...
Peace
Steve
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| 80.5 | | ELESYS::JASNIEWSKI | Why not ask why? | Fri Oct 28 1994 19:26 | 44 |
|
Re anon -
Relationships can be complicated by one's grief and mourning the
death of a loved one - or maybe it's the other way around - that one's
grief and mourning the death of a loved one can be complicated by a
relationship.
It sounds to me that that's what could be happening for your
friend. You may see your presence in her life at this time as a benefit
to her, (you certainly see it as beneficial to yourself) - though
instead, it may very well be an effective *distractant* to what she
needs to process emotionally. Hence, her request for...some
considerable space.
Now, true love taken as the extension of one's self for the
emotional and spiritual growth of another; are you willing to set aside
your own needs to allow her to grow through what she needs to go
through, as far as her emotional processing around her dead exhusband?
(Remember - emotions are emotions, thoughts are thoughts - feelings dont
have to make any sense at all...)
Actually, considering the magnitude of what her's are by your
description "Devastated", 1/96 is a very reasonable time for your
next date. This stuff can take years, and it's been years, BUT, I
presume you've been with her through a lot of it. Perhaps she realizes
down in her soul that she needs to walk those last few steps _alone_,
without the emotional intimacy that a one-on-one M/F relationship
usually provides. To put the pieces of her emotional self back together,
so to speak. Maybe she realizes she's just not all "there"...and it's
hard to be in a relationship with a heart so fragmented. (It's kinda
like a disk-drive - it starts thrashing all over the place until it
wears itself out and finally crashes...)
Rather than just leave it in disgust and defeat, why not say "okay -
take all the time you need - I will see you in January if you still want
to". I know - easy to *say* - but - if you really like her, give it a
shot, take the risk and hopefully she'll be waiting for you on the other
side. In doing that you'll have raised your importance in her life to
something greatly significant.
Hope this helps,
Joe
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| 80.6 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Fri Oct 28 1994 20:09 | 3 |
| I think that date was supposed to be 1/95....
Steve
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| 80.7 | Walk in her shoes for those two months! | MR4DEC::JONES | | Sat Oct 29 1994 12:43 | 55 |
| The other thing to consider in this situation is that you are
probably feeling competition. In this case competition is not
from another male, but another person...herself. I think
most of us here are saying that what she has not been without
is people in her life for at least the last 2 years. You
have been there in some capacity and he was there in spirit
if not in person at times...literally or figuratively..i.e. in
her mind...as in the B'day thing.
What it sounds like her heart is saying in a way her head can't
explain..and probably rightly so, is,"Let me live the next several
days and hours alone to figure out and heal from things I probably
always knew I had to deal with, but now have no choice about."
A couple of facts jump out at me:
-The fact she had not adequately dealt...to her family..how and where
to introduce/position you, suggests that was put off 'til
some future time...that time is now. So he has to figure
out whether there is a place for you or not...real dilemma
-The fact that he would eventually lose the battle with AIDS did
not remove the follow on fact that she would have to deal with
the loss. Some people project to the end state and are pretty
much ready for it when it happens. In her case it sounds like
she put that off until now.
-The fact that the rest of her life will be rebuilding from one
brick to the next is just now hitting her. Will you be one
of those bricks? Who knows..sounds like the real fact is that
she is only now dealing with what the structure will be. Then
she will have time to decide on the building materials.
So, consider all those challenges...yes many of them are self induced
because of her procrastination in several areas. That is neither
bad or good as far as she is concerned...just another fact.
In your case, you have none of those to deal with..only
you desire for her to include you in her plans. I think the
first response of letting go of something and seeing if it
comes back is good advice. She needs time..lots of it. Jan1st
may actually be a little too fast given that she has two
very significant holidays and the thought of a NEW YEAR without
whatever realtionship arrangements she had at this time last
year..to look forward to in the coming year...Ugg! what a challenge
for anyone.
Remember, you are not competing(or at least it doesn't sound like your
are)with another guy here. You are competing with the rebuilding
of a delicate thing...a person's life and future. If the foundation
isn't solid, the bricks above that will always be in jeapardy.
Pray for her, love her from a distance, but undertand and accept..
the result may not be what you want, but then she has to live
with herself.
my .02
jim
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| 80.8 | Thanks from basenoter | QUARK::MODERATOR | | Mon Nov 07 1994 14:42 | 77 |
| Thanks from basenoter.
Thanks for all your replies. You've given me much to think about
at a time when I need help to get some perspective on this. In
regard to your replies:
-.1 & I guess if time passes and she doesn't want to
-.3 see me, then I'll have an answer. But if she's
been using me to fill some needs without really
caring for me, I feel that I owe it to myself
to stop that. I could be her friend but not her
lover.
-.4 "She should be looking to you, among others, for
support..."
She has looked to her friends, family, God, and
casual acquaintances, but not to me. Seems like
she took a lot of support from me up until to his
death but then felt uncomfortable with me around
after that.
I "... do not mean a whole lot to her."
The day after she told me that she wanted to be
apart until January, she wrote me a letter. She
explained that she felt bad after talking with me
when she had expected to feel relieved. She said
that I'd been very nice to her and that she was
"praying for clarity" about what our relationship
is to her.
Before getting the letter, I called her up to
tell her that I was really unhappy about not
being able to see her, especially at Thanksgiving
and Christmas. She responded that apparently she
hadn't made her needs clear to me. I said with
some hurt that I'd heard a lot about her needs
but that I had my own.
-.5 Your response made me think about what is going
on in her life.
"...are you willing to set aside your own needs
to allow her to grow through what she needs to
go through, as far as her emotional processing
around her dead exhusband?"
I want to feel that she will come to the other
side of her grief and be able to move on. But
early on in our relationship, she talked a lot
about him. She told me that she wondered if her
closeness to him had caused her two relationships
prior to ours to break up.
I remember her telling me with enthusiasm about a
counselor's suggestions about how she could set
up a regular schedule with her ex for childcare.
She seemed to think this was a great idea for
reducing her interactions with him. But she never
tried it. How can I know if she will ever go
through her "emotional processing around her
dead exhusband?" I don't know if she feels any
differently about that relationship than she did
ten years ago.
I went and spoke with the minister of her church who knows
her well and me somewhat. I told him of my confusion. He
replied that she is rebuilding her life and that she's
also very confused about everything. But he said that she
has great faith which is a real strength. I like him but I
think faith can either strenthen or weaken us depending on
whether we use it to face reality or avoid it. Thanks again
for all of your help.
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| 80.9 | | ELESYS::JASNIEWSKI | Why not ask why? | Tue Nov 08 1994 13:54 | 41 |
|
You're welcome.
> -.5 Your response made me think about what is going
> on in her life.
In my experience I've found that matters - a lot - in
relationships. Part of intimacy is the willingness to be accountable to
what's happening with the other person, when it's appropriate. Whether
you want to do that and/or whether it's appropriate is entirely a
personal decision one makes for themselves. In the situation you
described, you could simply decide "I dont want to do this" and move
on. Or, having decided you want to, then ponder the appropriateness
of your choice of action. Which then depends entirely on your feelings
around your question:
> How can I know if she will ever go
> through her "emotional processing around her
> dead exhusband?" I don't know if she feels any
> differently about that relationship than she did
> ten years ago.
If you're clear that someone simply isnt willing to process through
their grief around a loss such as was described, IMHO it's "inappropriate"
to extend yourself for their benefit. An analogy could be made to a
drunk or addict unwilling to get help for themselves; going out of your
way to their benefit will likely only enable them to stay in their
problem.
However, if you know that there's some openmindedness and
willingness around _doing something_ about her situation (you mentioned
that she exhibited some enthusiasm about the results of a counseling
session, also that her minister reported that she's "rebuilding her
life ") I'd say that the outlook is good for her to "go through it"
and "feel differently" about it as a result of doing that. You can help
her with this; perhaps indirectly - for now - if you so choose. It is
a *choice*, based on how you feel about yourself, her and on what you
know to be true about her in this situation.
Joe
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