Conference quark::human_relations

    
    It sounds like a very annoying situation.
    
    I'd suggest buying the guy a jokebook (do they still sell the
    "Truly Tasteless" jokebook series? :>) - and saying, "Here you
    go - now you'll have some actually FUNNY jokes to tell around here."
    
    If he doesn't take the hint, bring in 2 jokebooks next time.
    Then bring in a stack of them.  :>
    
    If he says, "Sorry, I was only joking with you all those times"
    - say, "Sorry, I guess my taste in humor is a bit more selective
    than yours.  Try the books, though.  They may help you out."  :>
    
    I hope you can work this out.  No one should be forced to go through 
    this kind of uncomfortable crap at the office.

    Try this:
    
    1. Please stop; I don't find you very funny.
    
    2. I've asked you to stop.  Please stop.
    
    3. Can you spell harassment?
    
    Be polite, yet firm.  Be consistent.  Be clear.  Say what you need
    to say in front of witnesses.  If he persists in continuing after you
    repeatedly ask him politely to stop, he's harassing you; you have
    recourse.
    
    I know what I'd say, but I can't enter it into the conference; it
    violates P&P.  
    
    					andrew

    I've had "friends" like that before. There are a lot of very insecure
    people out there who try very hard to improve their self-image by making
    everybody else look like a loser. For a while it works, but in the long
    run, bullies never win.

    You have a few options here:

    1) Fight back. Bullies only attack people who don't put up a defense. Do
       what you can to put him in his place.

    2) Talk to him in private. Tell him to stop the remarks. If he says "It's
       just a joke," just tell him you don't think it's funny. Be firm. If that
       doesn't work, then this guy is truly a jerk.

    3) If you can't get him to stop it, talk to your manager. If your manager
       sides with the jerk, go above your manager. I'm sure filing a harassment
       complaint would get him to shut up.

    In my experience, people who willingly pester others are hiding some pretty
    deep emotional problems. It's the only thing they know how to do to make
    themselves seem adequate. If anything, you can revel in the knowledge that
    this guy is probably a lot less emotionally stable than you and should be
    pitied.

    - Jim

Yes, definitely defend your dignity and personal boundaries in an appropriate way.

I learned the hard way in grade school and junior high.  I was miserable.  Kids
were bullying me all the time, about everything.  When kids asked

	You want to make something out of it ?

I always said "no" because I was afraid I'd be hurt worse than they would

It led to continued ridicule and misery.

If I could live those years over, I'd say

	Yes !


That's what the other kids answered in the same situation, and rarely did anyone
actually get in a real fight.

So, find a good way to stand up for yourself and express what you need for your
personal boundaries.

/Eric

    Think of some rebuffs... my mum was excelent at them when I was at
    school...
    
    One of her classics:
    
    "What you looking at?" - "Don't know, science hasn't got that far"
    
    
    Xtine

    It sounds like he is jealous of you and his words (thought "innocent"
    jokes) are his weapons.
    
    Ignore him completely, don't listen, don't say a word, just keep quiet
    and he will give up baiting you and probably the game will get boring.
    
    Tammi

    Anon:
    
    Ask him if he has a life of his own!!!  I can't believe he picks you
    apart like that!  What a loser.  When he makes cracks on you like that
    say something like, "what? Didn't get any this weekend?"
    
    I'm afraid I have to disagree with the other noters that say to ignore
    him or try and appeal to his sensative side, obviously he doesn't have
    one!  I wish I worked with you, I would love to put him in his place.  
    
    If you can't or don't want to spar with him laugh along with him, it
    works everytime.  You have to be able to laugh at yourself and it's
    never any fun to keep going when the person you are making fun of
    joins in a makes a few cracks of his own.
    
    Try your best not to get defensive.  Don't let him realize it bothers
    you at all.  When he starts making fun of you driving a tractor, ask
    him if he knows what tractors cost these days.  Say, "I don't know, It
    might come in handy, I might need to use it to shovel this place out,
    it's getting pretty deep in here."  For the shoes being 4 wheel drive
    -tell him you bought them just so he would ask you about them.  Or say,
    "as much attention as you pay to me, I would swear you have a crush on
    me."  
    
    Try to hang in there.  I wish I could help you more.
    
    Gina  

    re:.0
    
    With all due respect, I think you're overreacting.  In fact, if I may
    be so bold, it sounds like you don't exactly have an overabundance of
    self-confidence or self-esteem, letting comments like those in .0 get
    to you.
    
    Anyway, why not pull Fred aside and explain that it bothers you?

    As others have said tell this guy to his face that you don't appreciate
    the jokes and if it continues you'll consider it harassment.
    
    The most noted thing you said in .0 is that your manager joins in the
    "baiting" (I know you didn't use that word but that is what it is).
    After telling your coworker exactly what you think of his behaviour I'd
    also tell your manager that you don't appreciate his (her) making fun
    of you either. Make it clear that these sort of comments hurt you.
    On the other side of the fence try and work out why it is they make
    jokes about you but noone else (doesn't excuse the behaviour but may
    help you to understand how to get them to stop it short of a harassment
    complaint).
    
    And finally good job you're not a postal worker, they seem to have a
    very unique way of dealing with frustrations at work!
    
    Dave

    	First of all, I want to disagree with the noter who said the
    problem might be yours.  I don't think it is.


    	I've known a couple of people like that at the office, and it
    really depends on you and the other person as to how you go about
    dealing with it.  Both of the folks I knew had at one time or another
    stepped over the bounds of what felt comfortable to me, and at first I
    just let it slide.  But eventually I saw it wouldn't get rectified
    unless I did something, so I sat down with them and told them what was
    bothering me and why.  They were both basically decent people and so
    things definitely got better.


    	It's rather dangerous to ignore it, laugh along with it, or try to
    "joke" back.  You're not expressing your *true* feelings on the matter
    so it can easily be mistaken for acceptance.  Only by coming out with
    your honest thoughts and feelings can you make it clear how this
    affects you.  Be firm, too; leave no room for leeway.  With people like
    this you have be *very* clear about where the boundaries are.


    	People such as the one you've described often joke like this due to
    insecurities and issues within themselves.  They use "humor" (note the
    quotes) to draw attention away from themselves, and point out
    deficiencies in others.  It's also an easy way to become "popular",
    since everyone likes to laugh those people who can facilitate it become
    well liked.  However, "humor" which ridicules, belittles or in some way
    demeans another person or group of people is not humor at all -- it's
    abuse.


    	I was at one time quite shy like yourself, so I have an idea of how
    you feel.  My advice is to keep track of the things that this person
    says and does that bother you; write them down, along with how it made
    you feel.  You'll need concrete examples.  Then sit down with the
    person and say, "When you did <action>, it made me feel <emotion>."
    Couching it in this way eliminates many arguments, since a person's
    feelings are not up for argument or discussion (of course, it's not
    clear that a person like this will understand this subtle point, but
    it's worth a try).  If he says, "It was only a joke," tell him you did
    not find it funny and you'd appreciate it if he would refrain from
    making jokes at your expense.  Tell him if he wants to make jokes at
    someone's expense to make fun of himself.  But most of all make it
    clear that you won't tolerate the abuse forever.  This is a workplace
    and we *should* maintain a degree of professionalism.


    	I think you've realized yourself that changing groups is not a
    solution, since at some point you're going to have to deal with this
    anyway.  Might as well plant a stake in the ground and make a stand
    here!


    	Good luck,



    Brian

    What would I do?
    
    Look him in the eye next time he starts and say 
    
    "Gee, it must be nice to be so secure in your job that you can take
    time out to harass me. Unfortunatly, with the job market the way it 
    is now, I'm not as secure as you are and rather then trying to come up 
    with an appropriate comment to your insults, I'm going to concentrate 
    on doing my job.  So I'd appreciate it if you's stop the harassment,
    because if you continue to do so, I'll have no choice but to go to 
    personnel and discuss harassment charges, and before you say it, 
    Yes I can take a joke, but only when it's funny, not when it's
    insulting someone.
    
    Then go back to work.
    
    FWIW
    
    Skip

    Turn the tables on him.  Start making fun of little things he
    does or says or wears....When he says something to you about
    it say "That's what you put me through all the time, please
    stop."
    
    Well, you get the idea..Annoy them back.

    Re -1.
    
    The only problem with it, is having the ability.  It took me years to 
    be able to snap back with something, point out something "funny" and 
    otherwise defend myself in a 'joking' mood.  
    
    Before I did, I was much in the same boat as .0, the butt of the joke.
    Continually, to the point of irritation.  
    
    It took a long time to be able to 'come back' and in the meantime, I
    got to suffer silently because I was too shy or felt it was bad taste 
    to 'return' it.
    
    Self esteem has little to do with it, there's a point where you get
    to be the end of the joke too often, then you start to loose the self
    esteem, and start wondering if maybe there really is something wrong
    with you.
    
    Skip

    RE: Skip

    Yup, you hit the nail on the head with that one.

    I spent two years of my college experience thinking I was a worthless
    piece of scum because of the "friends" I hung around with.

    There was one in particular who would constantly ridicule everything I did,
    from the way I did my homework to the way I did my dishes. He would even
    criticize the fact that I didn't break my spaghetti in half when I put it
    in the pot.

    BUT, it was all done in a joking manner, and I figured I might as well learn
    to laugh at myself, right?

    Well, I spent too much of my time believing that all my little habits were
    BAD. This "friend" made me believe that there was something wrong with me
    because of the way I cooked spaghetti, or because I like to sleep late on
    weekends. When you are constantly being called lazy and incompetent by
    people who you care about and trust, it sinks in and causes damage.

    Anyway, to make a long story short, ever since I came to realize that this
    guy was no more perfect than I was, I actually began to notice that he was
    a heck of a lot more screwed up than I was. And, ever since I've stopped
    talking to this "friend," I have learned to like myself as I am, and I've
    become a heck of a lot happier and more successful and have made some GOOD
    supportive friends.

    And now this guy has lost pretty much all his friends. He sells Amway
    products to the ones that will still tolerate him.

    So, my point is: I was fine before I met this friend, I am fine now
    that I don't talk to him anymore. But I was a quivering glob of
    insecurities while we were friends. If you are constantly ridiculed by
    people, that in itself can do tons to lower your self-esteem.

    - Jim

    P.S. No offense if you sell Amway products.

    I disagree with the "do the same thing back to him" advice.  To some
    people this kind of joking/putting down is considered positive strokes
    and they not only do it to others, but they *like* it when others do
    it to them.  If that is the case with him, he will misinterpret your
    returning the behavior as a "go ahead" signal.
    
    First tell him privately, that you feel bad when he jokes about you in
    front of others, and ask him to stop.  Then, each time he does it tell
    him "Stop it!" or "Cut it out!".  Also tell your boss privately that
    you feel bad when he joins in and ask him to stop.  And just keep
    saying "Stop it" each time it happens.  It may take awhile.  But should
    eventually get the message.  If not then he is probably abusing you
    deliberately.  At that point, either get out or consider going after
    him for harassment.
    
    Remember though, that you too, are at some level "buying in" to his
    put downs.  Part of the put down is coming from him - that part you
    can't control - and part is coming from you putting yourself down -
    that part you can control.
    
    mm

    In my experience the only thing that works with people like this is to
    give it right back to them, mercilessly.  Nobody is perfect and if you
    look closely enough I'm sure you can find defects in this person that
    could be held up for ridicule, so the next time he picks on you, give
    it right back.  The only thing that people like that understand or
    respect is that you have the guts to be as nasty to them as they are to
    you, so go for it.
    
    If he makes fun of what you're wearing say something like, "Oh, like
    I'm sure you made the 10 Best Dressed List this year yourself!  What
    you're wearing is nothing to write home about either.  As a matter of
    fact, I was just wondering if you're color blind."  etc.  
    
    If he criticizes your looks ask him when was the last time he was
    mistaken for Tom Cruise.
    
    Same thing with your car.  If he calls yours a tractor just tell him
    you prefer it to that sh*tbox he drives, regardless of whether he
    drives a nice car or not.  
    
    You have to make him realize that in *your* opinion, *he* is a jerk
    and, furthermore, that you really don't give a damn what he thinks of
    you.
    
    You can't act upset when you're insulting him back, though.  You have
    to assume a snotty attitude.  You want to convey the idea that you do
    think he's a piece of crap, but you're not overly bothered by him.
    
    Lorna
    

    I'd talk to him privately about it, telling him that you think the
    joking has gone too far and is creating an unpleasant work environment
    for you, and if he resists, tell him you think he's a great guy, and
    you'd rather resolve the situation privately than get personnel involved.
    
    If you can find some good in this guy, it will help your case -- most
    compulsive 'jokers' are insecure at heart, and concerned they won't be 
    accepted by the group if they stop.  The less adversarial (but still
    firm) you can be about it, the easier it will be for him to treat you 
    differently.
    
    If you throw it back at him too much, you run the risk of someone
    complaining about you, especially since it will probably be clear
    you're not "just joking".
    
    	Sharon
    

    I too disagree with the "give it right back" advice. No one wins when
    the insults start flying. Maybe it's easier to lower yourself to that
    persons level, but it's worth the effort to rise above their immaturity.

    I would try the direct approach first. Rehearse what you want to say
    and approach him, or if you find that hard to do send a mail message. I
    would not be confrontational. "I realize you like to joke
    around, but I've had enough of the teasing. I'm asking you to please
    stop making personal remarks about me."  If the personal approach
    fails, I would then say the same thing in the company of others. No
    doubt he'll make excuses, but don't apologize for for making the
    statement. 

    Depending on the time/place he makes the remarks you might just say 
    "I don't know about you, but I'm here to get some work done, can we get
    down to business please." 
    
    Gail

Continuing with the theme of one good shovelfull deserves another...


If he insults your clothing, stare at his shirt until he notices you doing
so, them remark ruefully:


	I used to wear shirts like yours.  But then my father got a job

    Any update on what has happened???
    
    Gina

    
    	Re - Anon
    
    	I too disagree with the give it right back strategy. Why reduce
    yourself to his level? Why play with him down there in his arena?
    I think just refusing to "go down to his level" is implicitly taking
    a stand against what he's doing to you.
    
    	I'd go with the clear and firm message that his behavior around
    you is not appreciated and unacceptable. Add to that an "if it
    continues" message that you'll do what you can to have it stopped,
    if he's unwilling to stop his behavior on his own accord.
    
    	If you dont feel like delivering that in person, put it in writing.
    Be as articulate as possible only for the sake of clarity and copy
    your supervisor, manager and EAP if you have one. Put it in his
    mailbox or send it over the tube. You dont have to face him down
    in real time to get your message communicated. If anything, he's
    the offender; he's the one exhibiting *offensive* behavior; you
    shouldnt have to "bend" at all - in any way shape or form!
    
    	All you have to do is _feel that way_ about it, to fully qualify
    it as such. I believe that is DEC P&P supported. Not too much different
    than if someone _felt_ this note was offensive; via policy, it'd
    have to be deleted.
    
    	Good luck with this,
    
    	Joe

    -1
    
    Can you take someone to personnel for making fun of you??
    

    
    	re -.1
    
    	Depends on your interpretation of it. If their making fun of
    you is offensive and emotionally upsetting *to you*, that doesnt 
    lead toward you're being a productive employee, does it? It's in
    the business interest of DEC to have productive employees.
    Therefore...
    
    	It seems that .0 is emotionally upset enough to have an anonymous
    entry placed seeking advice. I'd probably guess that his work is
    being upset too. That's of great interest to DEC. I'd guess that
    DEC, as a business, would want you to "take someone to personnel"
    if their behavior was upsetting to you.
    
    	Hope this clears things up!
    
    	Joe

    Re-2.
    
    If they make fun of you once and you say nothing.
    
    It's a joke
    
    If they make fun of you and you ask them to stop,
    
    It should end.
    
    If they make fun of you and you have asked them to stop,
    
    It becomes harrassment.  
    
    Yes, you can take a person to personnel on charges of harrassment.  
    
    You can SUE a person on charges of harrassment.  
    
    And if the company you work for allows it to continue without taking some 
    course of action.
    
    You can SUE the company.
    
    FWIW
    Skip
    
    
    

    re:.22
    
    Yes, no question about it.  In fact, it can be even more indirect than
    that ... if someone makes fun of someone else, and it bothers you, you
    can "take them to personnel" for it.