Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    Sounds like you are in a rut with your wife.  Do you two ever do things
    without the children?? You should be a baby sitter, and go out on the
    town and go to a club, a movie or do something else fun. You have to
    bring romance back into your relationship. As much as you  love your
    kids, sometimes you put so much time and effort into them the spouse
    usually takes a back sea. What you need is to add a little spice to
    your marrage, it is never too late.
    
    
    Good Luck!
    
    
    Lynne

    This may make me sound pretty shallow, but before my divorce, I lost
    interest in my spouse because she had put on so much weight that the 
    thought of sex with her "grossed me out".  Could it be that one of you 
    has, in some way, become unattractive to the other?

    .2   That's what the base note said that happened...

    
    This note could be word for word coming from my almost ex-husband.....
    he does not work for Digital, but I had to seriously re-read and
    re-read this note again........
    
    I am currently going through a divorce, but the length of the marriage
    and the problems within the marriage sound just like mine.
    
    I think one of our biggest problems though was in reference to reply
    .2......
    
    My husband tried to change the person I am through soooo many different
    ways.  I'm an independent individual - this did not settle with my
    husband as he preferred me to be the perfect home-maker.  Also in
    regards to reply .2 - my husband was always conscience about my
    appearence - I'm a fairly tall and blonde and I try to keep myself in
    decent shape more for health purposes though - my husband would always
    be the first to comment if I gained a few pounds or lost a few pounds
    and he never seemed to be too happy whether I had lost or gained, but
    it was always something that wasn't right about me.  As most wives -
    I always liked to look my best for my husband, afterall I wouldn't want
    to come home to a mess either - but now that I don't deal with this
    sort of thing anymore - I'd rather be recognized for what's inside than
    what's outside.
    
    I hope you can possibly work things out - I think most marriages do
    tend to have some lag time in there as well.
    
    -Lynn
    

    	Re .3... I didn't read that from .0 at all...
    
    Maybe I should expand a bit.  For years, both my ex and I were
    basically couch potatoes.  Eventually, I took a look in the mirror, got
    disgusted, and got myself back into shape.  My ex continued in her ways
    and got even heavier.  
    
    I became more physically active, she became less and less so.
    	
    Eventually, as I said, the thought of making love to her became
    unappealing...
    
    Did I want to change the way she was?  
    Or did I change? 
    Or did we both change, but in different directions?
    
    I would tend to say that we both changed in different directions.  I
    didn't want to follow her in the direction she was going, she didn't
    want to follow me.  Obviously, there was more than this going on, but
    since the base note concerned itself a great deal with physical
    intimacy, this is one person's reasons/excuses/outlook.
    
    larry

    
    Re: .5
    
    Larry,
    
    Did you ever try to include your ex-wife in some of your physical 
    activities?
    
    I play racquetball and to be quite honest that was the one thing
    that held my marriage together for almost 2 years......this was
    something we both enjoyed and could do together, however, one does
    not live by racquetball alone.
    
    -Lynn
    
    
    

    I have been a "read-only" participant in this notesfile but feel
    compelled to answer this note.  
    
    I was in a marriage for eleven years, that for the last three years of
    the marriage could not tell my husband that I loved him.  He was not
    physically unattractive, nor did he pull his love away from me.  The
    problem stemmed from deep-seated anger.  Over the years, my anger grew
    and my love for him disappeared.  I couldn't talk to him about my anger
    because he didn't want to hear it.  Both of us were embarrassed to seek
    counselling and waited too late.  By the time we went, the love for him
    was nul and void.  If communicating is a problem in your marriage, you
    may find that your spouse is angry but has had no outlet for the anger. 
    I hope you can talk things out and work out your problems.
    
    F.

    
    Re -1
    
    That rings true for me too.
    
    I stayed in a sexless relationship for years - it was only when I
    finally left that I could get a perspective and see how very
    angry I had been about many things. Totally unconsciously, I had
    switched off my attraction to the man - maybe as a way of 
    "punishing" him, maybe just through the tension of unexpressed
    anger.....it certainly wasn't a conscious gesture.
    
    Maybe a workshop to get in touch with feelings would be interesting?
    For one or both of you - but separately rather than together, I
    would suggest....
    
    'gail
    
    

    What happened....
    This note has been inactive for some time now and I am very interested
    in the outcome. I see my relationship in the base note and wonder how
    it turned out for you. For me it's still turning....
    
    Ken

Well its been a few months since I wrote the base note and I feel its time
to respond. My wife and I had bee seeing a counselor trying to solve our
problems. One thing that I was not sure of was whether she had another man
in her life. I had suspected since last October that she and a male friend
she was working with were becoming more than just friends. I asked her to
stop seeing him for a while at least until we got our marital problems
worked out. Well she assured me they were just friends and she needed
someone she could talk to. Lately that all changed and after finding letters
and cards from this male friend of hers it was obvious there was more involved
than just friendship. Recently I found a letter from him to my wife telling
her that he loves her and enjoys making love to her. Well when confronted
with this letter she finally confessed to the relationship and that she had
been having sex with this guy. Her lover is 26 and single living at home
while my wife is 33. I still love her but I'm having a tough time right now
and don't know what to do. She promissed me she would stop seeing him till
she decides what she wants to do. I am ready to divorce her however I am
also willing to forgive her if she is willing to try to start over and stop
lying to me. The problem is how can I be sure! I don't want to go on being
miserable. When is it time to give up? I feel used and cheated and foolish
for not seeing what was really happening. Has anyone of you been through this
and were you able to make the marriage work after finding your spouse had
been unfaithful?? What should I do??

Confused and Depressed

    
    once lied to - it is very difficult to trust again .... especially
    about infidelity ... Dig deep and search for the reasons that you want
    the marriage ... explain to your partner these points ... If they do not
    trigger similar fealings - read the writing on the wall ...
    
    pardon my pesimism - it's tough to love a liar ...
    
    jgk
    

    Ditch her.  Anyone who lies to you this long over a matter this
    important can't be trusted.
    
    	-John Bishop

    I would agree 100% with the previous comments, it will be hard on you,
    but get rid of her now. 
    

    I'm the basenoter in 1165. I feel very much for you. I can tell you
    that DOUBT will kill a relationship. Once trust is gone and replaced
    with DOUBT the relationship will die, if not tomorrow then in a few
    years. Just think, five or ten years from now your wife has a male
    friend that she begins spending time with. The memories of the past and
    the DOUBT will destroy you!!!!  Deep rooted, loving relationships are
    based on TRUST. Once broken, only time before the end.
    
    Sorry to be so down...
    
    ken

    
    
    	I know you feel terribly right now, and the answers people
    	are giving you here may not be the ones you want to hear. This
    	is the way I see your situation. Your wife began an affair which
    	decreased her urge to be intimate with you. You noticed, and
    	when you asked her she pulled a rabbit out of a hat, ie her
    	sexual problem. Maybe she felt guilty and didn't want to hurt
    	you, so this is the pawn she used. You love her, so you were
    	willing to do anything she needed to make things better. BUT,
    	in the first place, she lied. That skews the whole situation.
    	I think you need to take care of yourself and get away from
    	the situation. I'm sorry that you've been hurt, I have followed
    	the emotion in your entries all along. Take care of yourself...
    
    

    Same thing happened to me years ago.  I feel like I'm reading my old
    diary all over again.  The agony was awful.  I went to a counselor and
    poured my heart out: I was in pain, I couldn't figure out what to do
    with my life (or my wife), I was depressed, angry, hurt, and a whole
    lot of other things.  And I needed comfort from this counselor.
    
    What I got was good advice, but at the time I could have gladly
    strangled him because I wasn't quite ready to hear it.  Six months
    later I thought: "Oh, so THAT'S what he meant!".  Well, what did he
    say?
    
    He said: "It's obvious that you are not hurting badly enough!"  When I
    said that I had never been in more pain in my entire life, his response
    was "You've got your hand on a hot stove; when it gets hot enough,
    you'll know what to do".  Indeed, things got worse, and in the end I
    decided to take my hand off the stove (note that I could have opted to
    turn the stove off, or throw water on it, or....).
    
    It wasn't good advice at the time, because I wasn't ready to hear it. 
    You may not be ready to hear it either (you're in a very painful place;
    a lot of us have been there, too), but one of these days the "stove
    will get hot enough" and you'll know what to do.
    
    Hang in there, a lot of us are with you.
    
    Bill

    I, too, have been through the same thing.  Once trust was gone
    for me it never returned.
    
    Get out...a clean, quick, cut is the best.
    
    
    
                                   L.J.

    Add me to the list of people who have gone through this painful
    experience.  You show alot of courage writing down your feelings and
    posting them here.   When I found out, I felt pain and grief.  Anger
    did not crop up until much later after counseling.  The pillows, couch
    and other soft furniture in the house received terrible beatings during
    this time but it allowed me to get the anger out in a non-destructive
    way.
    
    Hold on to yourself as best you can.  I went through 2 of the darkest
    days during this period  (I call them the "black days") where I
    remember thinking that suicide must be an option....
    
    After about a month I realized what has been said in previous
    replies....that the tower of trust that had been built over the years
    had come tumbling down and that trust is the cornerstone of any
    relationship.   If you decide to end the marraige, do it as quickly as
    possible.  You will be fighting an emotional battle within yourself
    between the "our marraige will last forever" thought and the "I can't
    trust you" thought.
    
    Another thing:  You are at the extreme disadvantage emotionally in this
    problem.  Your wife has someone who is saying "I love you" to her and
    she has support in this.  You, on the other hand, have no one but
    yourself.  I recommend reading "Intimate Partners" by Maggie Scarf...
    note the chapter on love triangles.
    
    Feel free to write to me directly or phone me...I'm in ELF.
    
    I wish you well.
    
    Angelo

    So regardless what you decide it looks like an issue of trust.  IF you 
    can re-establish the trust you once had with her (Keep in mind
    something, that she IS separated from you now and therefor it is NOT
    wrong of her to see someone else.... further, she may not have told you 
    about her relationship with him because of this very reason of causing
    you hurt.)  I don't know what you'll decide to do but ultimatly it
    comes down to if you beleive you can rebuild the trust the two of you
    had before this happened.  The simplist test is (from what I've read
    herein) do you believe she has stopped seeing him?  If you honestly do,
    then you are capable of rebuilding the trust that was destroyed by her 
    actions.  BUT, if you doubt her, in the least, then it will be a long 
    and agonizing battle that may never be fully won.   I've heard of
    relationships going on after the "affair" and everything working out
    just fine.  It's just a matter of being able to rebuild the trust or
    learning to deal with the doubts in a positive manner.  It isn't
    impossible.  Some learn to treat the subject of fedility as a "taboo" 
    subject and never discuss it again.  Some bring it up and flaunt it
    consistently. Others still, seem to use it as a tool to "get even" with 
    She did it.... now it's my turn.  I've seen relationships rebuilt
    afterwards and watched them torn hoplessly apart.   (10 years in the 
    Navy... you see a lot of different types of relationships come and go 
    with your friends and co-workers.... you watch, learn and try to see
    what works and doesn't).  If it ever comes to a question of fedility 
    in my relationship with my girlfriend, and I learn she's had an
    affair...I'd like to think we (her and I) are big enough to move beyond 
    it and maintain a healthy relationship with each other.  I've seen it
    done.  But the truth is that I don't really know... until that day 
    ever comes (Which I doubt most sincerely!) I can't ever say how I will 
    react or what I will do.  Still, I've seen others move beyond it.  
    
    But I have a few questions for you.  Did you NOT trust her?  If you had 
    trust her, why were you reding her mail?  Were you setting yourself up 
    to find something?  Searching for something to cause yourself to hurt?
    
    If you had taken her at her word, and not been poking through things
    that were apparently her own personal mail.  Then would you have been 
    feeling the hurt you do now?  Do you think she would have come forward
    and told you she had had an affair with this guy?  I guess what I'm
    saying (cruel as it sounds) is that you invaded her privacy and got
    burned for it... now you're hurt and although I feel sorry for you,
    truly I do, but...I wonder if perhaps you set yourself up for it?
    
    It's something to think about.
    
    SKip
    
     

    Skip has a good point that I'd like to expand upon.
    
    If you were doubtful enough of her fidelty to look throught her
    personal mail, then you already knew she was cheating.  You just
    needed the proof.
    
    This is of coarse, IMHO!  ;^)
    
    
    
                                   L.J.