Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    In my opinion, one of the strengths (and the weakness that caused
    it to meet its doom) of That Other File was the "no holds barred"
    atmosphere, in which the contributors could speak as openly and
    as frankly as they wished. That is not the case here.
    
    I won't discuss whether the rules as they were set down by the
    moderator of this conference are good things or not (and I hope
    no one else will discuss it here, either, as it has already gone
    a few rounds), but I'm sure that those rules turned off a number
    of potential contributors to this conference.
    
    --- jerry

    Well, I am enjoying this conference, but I just haven't had much
    time to contribute. I just got a new job and then took a 2-1/2 week
    vacation. Any idea how long it takes to catch up after that? I feel
    like I am slowly sinking. But look for me to (hopefully) start adding
    my .02 here soon.
    
    But, I still miss SEXCETERA!!!!
    
    Tamzen

    Well, if Tamzen is here, things can't be all that bad...
    
    My feeling, though I wasn't all that outspoken in the Other Conference,
    is that we should do our best to be open and honest, while exercising
    a little more restraint than before.  Maybe we're still trying to
    find a way.  Have you noticed that the topics and contributions
    have been moving more toward "feeling talk" lately?  In a lot of
    ways I don't miss some of the blowhards we had over There -- while
    I think we have picked up some nice folks over here.
    
    I'll bet its gonna get better!

    When a popular, rather innocuous file is summarily purged amid rumors
    of crackdowns and copies-being-saved-for-scrutiny-by-officialdom, that
    tends to cast a pall over any similar community until the shock wears
    off.  
    
    Watch what this file is like in a year's time.
    
    					=maggie

RE: *
    
    Take a look at Topic 17 in this conference.  In case you do want
    to to take the excursion, the topic and all its resonses follows
    after the form-feed.
    
    - Vikas
    
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    Those who need rules, have no self control.

    Do what is RIGHT !  Where have I heard that before ?

    Sexcetera was a good file with good people and
    it was blown out of proportion due to poor management.

    There were SERIOUS consequences which I can not discuss
    in a public forum.

    

        Personally, I found all the bickering about censorship more
        remeniscent of Soapbox and Forum than Sexcetera, and a total
        turn-off. If this file can get over all of that foolishness, it
        might become a tolerable place.
        
        JimB.

I am also too new to have seen what's_its_name notefile.
My question is, what's wrong with this one? I've seen
honest, adult, intelligent conversation here (a refreshing
change from several other notesfiles). I didn't expect
to find lockerroom humor here (hmmm maybe a notesfile named
LOCKERROOM wouldn't arouse suspicions, though... ;-)

My feeling: give it a chance.

Bruce

Thanks Don.  You're correct in assuming that I'm not complaining about this 
conference.  True, I was wondering what became of the Other audience, most of 
which are either passively following H_R or have given up Noting.

To stress the positive side, I'm glad that the openness and willingness to 
share feelings seems to have survived and is taking root here.  I hope that H_R 
will become as "safe" a place for folks to chat as that Other place was (no 
cynical remarks about "safety" please).  H_R is more reserved, and frankly I 
don't miss some of the excesses which were in the predecessor conference.

And, as one reply suggested, I'm willing to wait (and participate) for a year 
and "see what becomes of H_R".

_steve_

    I became a frequent contributor to "the other file" in the months
    before its demise, and have been happy to pick up the same topics
    here in this conference.  By limiting our subject material we can
    still be open and honest without much risk of having H_R share the
    same fate as our dear departed file.
    					Steve (yet another one)
    

    <--(.19)
    'Regarding "excesses" to paraphraase teh trash/treasure theorem:
    "What is conservative to one, may be an excess to the other".  
    
    For example, some psychology counselor in Chicago has already strated
    offering treatment for people who are afflicted with the desire
    for abnormally high frequency of sexual relations. That is,  they
    desire sex too frequently.
    
    Yet there are others who are afflicted with the desire to "pray"
    to some "Deity" to often, and I have not seen anyone offer to help
    this second class of "perverts".
    ==================================================================
    Well put, Bob.
       
    
    
    I'm not sure whether I can share your perception (in .15?) that "gay
    issues" were the reason that =sexcetera= was closed.  Certainly there
    were early notes, one string quite a long one as I recall, in which gay
    and lesbian issues were discussed relatively freely.  And certainly
    that's as should be:  there is a clearly-worded anti-discrimination
    policy in force signed by KO himself. 
    
    My sense is that the sexually-explicit material that was beginning to
    appear more and more frequently was seen as inappropriate rather than
    that "gay issues" per se were, and that it was just bad luck(?)
    that the most prominent topic before the ax fell was one that (a)
    seemed associated more with gay men than any other group and (b)
    appeared very difficult for most other people to relate positively
    to, even in the abstract.  
                                          
    					=maggie

I was a frequent contributor to SEXCETERA until a few months before
its deletion.  I have probably written about five notes in the last six
months, due to a change in my lifestyle.  This is probably the first time
I've logged in at night in those six months.  So, it wasn't only SEXCETERA
and/or HUMAN_RELATIONS that's been suffering without me :-).

Although H_R is a different file, and its "charter" is based on a different
subject matter, there were a lot of human relations topics discussed in
SEXCETERA that either are being discussed here (like divorce) or could be
discussed here.  Towards the end of SEXCETERA, ironically, most of the
discussion was similar to our current topics, and that is what hit me the
hardest--the loss of what would be acceptable material if written here today.

Maybe another day I'll have the time/energy to write a reply into the divorce
topic in this file as I did in the "other file".  Maybe a lot of other
people can't or won't.

But I'm glad we have this file now to share our experiences in.  We have a
great group of people here, and a lot to learn from each other.

Jill

        I don't think that "gay" issues or the openness of gay
        individuals was terribly important in the demise of the
        Sexcetera conference. As someone mentioned, there was a long
        history of openness about both homosexuality, and personnal
        feelings about it in the file. 
        
        I also think that people are selectively remembering the good
        parts of the conference. The notes on trust, commitment, divorce
        and date rape were very good, and many people learned from them.
        The notes directly harrassing individuals, the more purely
        titilating topics (jokes, names for "it/him/her/them"), the
        sniggering replies to sensative topics (bestiality and oral sex
        each had a number of off-color replies), the depressed "women
        are scum" notes, or attacks on groups such as gays or the deeply
        religious, and the like all seem to have been forgotten. 
        
        I was never ashamed of or apollogetic for my behavior in or
        support of the file, but at the same time there was a lot of
        crap in that file, a lot of stuff I am not proud to have
        associated with my name. I think the openness was very good. I
        was especially touched by the frank discussions by one or two
        gay men, and women who had experience with sexual assualt. They
        gave me a clearer feeling for and understand of experiences in
        which I do not share.
        
        As to this file, I was totally put off by the censorship battles
        and discussions in its early days, and had basically written it
        off as a waste. It has improved of late, but still hasn't the
        sense of community of the old file. Perhaps that will come with
        time. 
        
        JimB.
        

re: .21

> " ... change in my lifestyle."

Probably due to me :-)

[sorry Jill, couldn't resist]

re .23 (Bill) re my .21 and not having as much time for noting these days:

> Probably due to me :-)
>
>[sorry Jill, couldn't resist]

Hey, who let *you* into *my* conference? Go back to your own! :-) :-)

Maybe we should continue this in the "Close Encounters of the Terminal Kind"
note (note #27) :-)

[sorry, Bill, I've always been irresistible]

Jill

    Re: .21 and .23
    
    Hey, I thought it was because of me... 8-)
    
    
    Geezz, play matchmaker with these two and they forget you already!!!
    
    Gale (writing from Bills' terminal.. or is this Jills'???  I've
    never seen a place with his and her data lines before 8-)...)