Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    Pete, 
    
    My husband does this to me too.  It's really upsetting -- makes me
    feel like he thinks I'm so stupid I can't even understand why he's
    angry. 
    
    But I've learned through several years of quarrels over TV shows
    and which road to take to Connecticut that my perception doesn't
    match his perception of his behavior.  He doesn't intend it as
    punishment. Rather, he wants to wait until he cools down to talk
    about it.  He's afraid he's going to say something he doesn't
    really mean. 

    I've found that the best thing to do is ignore him until he comes
    out of it.  I go do something on my own.  Usually by then he's
    either willing to talk about whatever is really bothering him, or
    else the whole thing has blown over.  It is a good way of defusing
    a trivial quarrel that's not really about anything. 
    
    Of course, if your spouse is refusing to discuss serious problems
    and giving you the silent treatment for bringing it up, then
    you have a different and far more serious problem.
    
    --bonnie

    re : .1
    
>        Of course, if your spouse is refusing to discuss serious problems
>    and giving you the silent treatment for bringing it up, then
>    you have a different and far more serious problem.
    
    	No, it's not that she refuses to discuss serious problem, but
    	since she is very defensive (understanable given her family
    	and up brining), and it will lead to a "defence offence".  Once the
    	problem has been broached and she has calmed down, we can discuss
    	the problem.

I'm new to this file, too, but the tactics you mention are often used
within my family, so I wanted to take a shot at answering your question.

I do not know the ins and outs of your fight with your wife.  However, I would
say from experience that there is only one way to deal with such behaviour.
Ignore it.  If she won't talk about it, that's her problem.  If she eventually
wants to, all well and good.

My mother often used the same ploy to win family arguments.  The issue is
then no longer "which TV programme are we going to watch" but "you are an
absolute s*** for being so cruel to me".  Of course, I used to feel like one.

Let me give you an example of how I learned to deal with this behaviour.
During a family dispute Mum ran off and locked herself in the bedroom.  In the
past I would have panicked, phoned my Father at work, and got him to come home
and talk her out - just in case she did something silly.  This time, I didn't.
I went into the kitchen and made myself a cup of coffee.  An hour later she
emerged, crying ostentatiously, and phoned my Father herself.  I learned from
that one incident that if I was strong enough, these tactics wouldn't work.
She had also not succeeded in diverting attention from the issue we'd been
arguing about.  That still remained to be resolved, and eventually was.  In
the past, I would have been too frightened of a repetition of the incident to
raise the matter again.

I hope this helps.

Val

    
    
    	More often than not, my boyfriend and I wind up in a fight.
    	Since we are very much alike when it comes to stubbornness,
    	and wanting to have the last word, trivial problems arise
    	constantly.
    
    	When he gives me the silent treatment, it's not by not
    	talking about it, it's more of an "I can hear you but 
    	everything you're screaming about is going in one ear and
    	right back out the other."  
    
    	He's got an explosive temper, just like I do, and I've 
    	come to realize that now and again he needs to just walk
    	away from it all, simmer down, relax, then come back in
    	an hour (sometimes alot longer).  THEN, we can try to
    	discuss it.
    
    	My suggestion (after all this long windedness) is just
    	to ignore it.  If it's a trivial argument over a TV show
    	or something equally stupid, forget it!!  There's no use
    	making a big deal about it....try and laugh about it if
    	nothing else.
    
    	Eventually it'll blow over
    
    /kim
    

ACOAs have a habit that I call 'spacing out', where in thier childhoods they
were verbally abused, that the only escape they had from it was to 'space out'
and disconnect themselves with what was going on to ignore reality when they
can't deal with it.  This could be interpreted as the silent treatment. 

What to do about it?  I'm not sure.  It does help for the other person to
let the other know that they are spacing out (eyes glazing over :-}) so that
they are aware of it, but I don't know what to do after that yet.

Jim.

    	The old "ST" is her means of handling this fight. My wife has
    done the same to me and it's aggravating as hell. Especially when
    you want to talk and and she's still being quiet. 
    	I don't how long you've been married or how tense the marriage
    is under normal circumstances but this is what "I" do when the air
    is thick: 
    	I do NOT speak to her. I grin, smile, look grim, but I don't
    make faces or anything like that. I may leave a note where she 
    can find it saying "I love you even though you do have lockjaw"
    but most importantly, when we get to bed I say "I know you're mad,
    but I just want you to know I love you in case I can't tell you
    tomorrow." That may be enough to thaw the situation.
    
    Ken

       
       
       	Boy, alot of things hit home in this topic!  My family was/is 
       similar.. I've learned to just get up and walk away from it. I
       HATE to argue.. Probably cuz I can really play some serious games
       with people when I do and I always end up regretting it.. So now,
       I just say "Let's drop it for now" or I just get up and walk away.
       Some people have chased me down and demanded that I not walk away
       from my problems when I do that.. They usually get a nasty glare
       and "Listen, would you rather I scream and shout or do you want
       to wait and talk about it when I've calmed down?? I DON'T EVER walk
       away from my problems but NOTHING is worth getting upset about"
       That usually does it.. :-)  Yesterday I was about to explode. By
       3pm I was nearly on the warpath and knew it.. So I got up and
       left and went home.. Amazing how it worked.. Things calmed down and
       today I'm in a MUCH better frame of mind even if I am still mad..
       
       						mike

    I'm one of those women who goes silent sometimes.  To try to give
    you a little bit of background - I don't often get angry (frustrated,
    maybe), I do like to discuss things and work them out, but I don't
    like to argue.  I think people need to stay rational and above all,
    LISTEN to each other.  
    
    Right now, I don't think I could give you a reason *why* I get quiet
    - maybe out of frustration when talking doesn't work.  But there's
    no hostility behind it.  Maybe it's feeling that the other person
    is emotionally pushing me away (in the process of discussion or
    argument), and it's a way of dealing with real or imagined rejection
    (albeit temporary) - I just withdraw.  I'm not rejecting him.
    
    What I do know is that what I really want is for some sign of
    affection - a hug for example, to bring me out of it.  
    The response in .6 sounded pretty good because he's letting her know 
    that he loves her.
                           
    If you can stop in the middle of an argument over something as trivial
    (relatively) as a TV show and ask yourselves "what are we doing?
    We love each other; this is ridiculous!" maybe you can avoid getting
    to where the silent treatment begins.
    
    There was a point in my past where the "silent treatment"
    was much more serious, i.e. in a marriage to an alcoholic who was
    irresponsible, stayed out all night, etc, etc.  It was a reaction
    of total disgust and withdrawal.  But that was way in the past, and 
    presumably totally irrelevant to your situation.  
    
    Nowdays, it just takes a hug to bring me out of it.
    That's an indication that the relationship is more important than
    whatever the argument was about.

    Re: .0
    
    Silence is not always golden, although not participating in an argument
    is a sure fire way to stop one that is underway or prevent it from
    progressing. But the point I would like to make (psychologically)
    is that one should consider two factors:
    
    A - Silence, can be used as a means of controlling the opponent
    (spouse) it can be used as a tool (weapon) to win an advantage that can
    not be attained verbally or rationally, manipulation by silence.
    
    B - There may be a *maturity* factor here (or the lack of it) that
    the Base-Noter may not be aware of. If the spouse can not have her
    way whether she is right or wrong but wants her way nevertheless
    then instead of stompng her feet, or holding her/his breath; she/he
    goes "silent"; "there that will teach him/her!!!"
    
    The solution: "Communication!" How? It would be wise to let the initial
    incident pass, wait until there is a time when all is well then in a
    quiet moment express your concern about that particular behavior. I am
    sure if it is done in a kind, concerned, loving manner it might just
    cause the individual to stop and analyze what she/he is actually
    accomplishing with such tactics; alienation! 
    
    If the recipient of the "Silent Treatment" is noticable affected
    by it and the spouse knows it you can bet it's a weapon that either
    he steels himself against, or rationally removes from the user (disarms)
    by communicating.
    
    - Richard
                                         

    	.6 and .8 have something in them that all of us should note.
    Sometimes it takes a little patience and caring on our part to solve
    problems.
    	I have been on both sides of the avenue and I can say there
    are solutions. I used to (and still do at times) go silent on people.
    In my case it is the inability to deal with anger. I have always
    avoided arguing at all costs. when i got into a stressful situation,
    I back away and become silent. I now realise how unfair it is to
    the person on the other side. 
    	My wife also does the same thing. But after sitting down and
    discussing it in detail, we have an understanding that works beutiful.
    When either of us feel threatened (usually over very trivial and
    minute issues) we tell the other we feel the silence coming. The
    other will immediate back away and give space without feeling hurt
    or angry. If you have enough respect for the other you can realise
    that they are going through as hard a time as yourself.
    	Even though we do give each other space, we do not forget to
    reinforce our caring for each other. (.8 is right about a hug- it
    can turn the worst situation into a great one).
	I think the key is communicating your feelings with out forcing
    them on others and respecting the person. If one can develop these,
    then the silence can be overcome.
    	Go home and hold her, and tell her how much you care for her.
        	

    Turn off the tube and go to bed!    You both will enjoy it better...
    

    Hmmm.  I've done this one myself, and the reason is often NOT the
    little thing that set off the arguement.  It's lots of little things
    which point to something bigger.  If it's never getting through
    that these little things are annoying, if there are so many of them
    that they're everywhere - a pair of dirty socks in the living-room,
    a bathmat not hung up in the bathroom, a herd of dirty coffee-mugs
    in the kitchen, shoes left in the hall, and THEN the annoyance of
    a misplaced comment - well, that's something that will set me off.
    The real issue is how concerned he is about things that bother me,
    like the house looking terrible.  It's not the house, it's his
    attitude.  In your case, the TV program may have been just the
    last thing in a line of many things.  And she may or may not have
    been expressing her annoyance all along - were you listening?
    
    Pushing this one under the rug may not be the answer.  There's
    probably a whole family of them under there already....;-)
    
    --Louise

Thinking about it, I find that I have a couple of different versions of 'the
silent treatment'.

I need an discussion to be rational.  When it turns into a shouting agrument, it
goes in one ear and out the other.  I still talk, but a lot of what is shouted
may not have any effect on me.  Since the reason you are shouting is to have
some effect, that may be very frustrating for you. 

Once I have said all I have to say, or all there is to say, I will shut up
because I refuse to waste my breath repeating my self.

Jim. 

	Sometimes it's smarter to bite the tongue than say something 
	in anger.  Angry words often do much more damage than intended.  
	It's put well in the Bible, where it states that the tongue 
	can be like the small spark that causes a forest fire.  I think 
	we're all afflicted with this to some degree.  Unfortunately, 
	some people are not able to "talk" out a disagreement without 
	casting ugly words.  
	It's difficult to change a trained condition - 	but it can be 
	done - with your patience.  Like it's been mentioned before, 
	love your wife and let her know it.  You certainly don't have 	
	to be "submissive" in order to show her love, just be kind.  
	Treat her like you would want to be treated (even if you do feel 
	it's her "fault") - it may take some time, but she'll eventually 
	get the message.  (The Taming of the Shrew may be a play - but
	there's a lot to be said about kindness begetting kindness.)

    This note is being entered anonymously for one of the noters in
    our community.
    

    **************************************************************************

    Anyone get this kind of "Silent Treatment" at work? I've had it from a
    member of our small group, for over a year now.   Our manager seems to
    be inclined to tolerate it. 

    Any ideas for handling or coping with it?   Straightforward one-to-one
    "raising the issue" didn't help.   It's still desirable to communicate
    in the work environment, but contact gets kept to a minimum. 
    

    I give people the silent treatment when I get annoyed or angry. I don't
    say a thing; I go stern faced, I won't look them in the eye. It really
    winds up the recipient. At first they try to get me to say something,
    then they shout at me, then, finally, they ignore me.
    
    I don't like to lose my temper; instead I keep it all inside. Just
    lately I've been learning to stop giving the ST, and explode. It gets
    the frustration/anger out, and it gets the message across far more
    easily than ST.
    
    It's almost as if I expect people to try to read my mind. Instead of
    saying something, I shutup. Of course, they've no idea I've been hurt,
    so they continue.
    
    Pete.

    One thing that really bothered an ex-SO was my refusal to argue
    back.  For years I was use to keeping everything inside, afraid
    that anything I said would get me in trouble, cause more problems.
    So I would just clam up, and give the silent treatment.
    
    I have since learned that doing this can cause more hurt later on
    - possibly worse than fighting it out at the time (or discussing,
    if you don't like the term fighting! :-)  ).  Things that you thought 
    were long over and done with can come back to "haunt you".  When
    people say to "let it out", they're not just saying it - they mean
    it!  You're better off in the long run.
    
    Communication is key with any relationship, be it an SO, a parent,
    a co-worker, a close friend.

    -Amy-

    A close friend of mine constantly tells me to 'let it out'. Just once,
    rather than hold back (in case I offended someone), I exploded. It got
    through alright, and cleared the air.
    
    You're right though, the silent treatment just lets things drift along;
    by then its too late because all the stuff gets buried and forgotten -
    better to deal with things as they occur.
    
    Pete.

    This reply is being entered for a noter who wishes to remain anonymous.
    

    **************************************************************************
    

    re 539.0  Pete

    > ... serving its supposed purpose (makes me feel like trash)

    ST is not committed to make you feel like trash.  In her mind, you and
    your reaction don't count for much.  ST has little or nothing to do
    with the receiver. 

    Until my late 20's, I could have competed in the ST Olympics. How bad?
    My POSSLQ (person of the opposite sex sharing living quarters) failed
    to buy me a pack of cigarettes when he should have.  For the next TWO
    WEEKS, even though we lived together, I barely spoke to him.  (The only
    words I uttered were Yes, No, and Nothing!) 

    In my whole life, I had never said anything explicitly critical to
    anyone.  Never said, "when you do x, you drive me nuts" or "I think you
    are ( (quality) * -1). I COULDN'T.  I would be seething with rage,
    would feel immense hostility, would be dying to scream, but COULDN'T.
    Even now, when I'm much better, it's hard to describe the massive
    inhibition. (I hollered at my mother once in my life.) 

    I would go silent because the thought of uttering something hostile or
    angry made me physically dizzy, I felt saying negative things would
    make a gulf between us, would wound the person so deeply that our
    relationship would be irretrievably harmed.  On top of this, I usually
    felt that I had absolutely no right to get this angry and to make such
    judgements, to feel this way. I felt I was supposed to be a saint and
    perfectly good and beyond such petty feelings. I couldn't express the
    anger -- but I was so angry and couldn't say anything not-angry. So I
    didn't say anything.  Arrgggghhh! I cooked inside. 

    In retrospect, the massive inhibition seems like a big ugly blowzy
    cloud, surrounding me on all sides. 

    So how do you get your wife away from the silent treatment? 

    The best way is to handle a 'sensitive' situation so she can say
    something negative without the universe blowing up. Here are things
    that helped me out of the mess. 

    If it's any comfort, she knows she is acting like an idiot -- I did and
    so did many other ex-STers that I know __ and would love to be able to
    speak her piece.) 

    o  If you feel she is about to go into ST mode, Speak Very
       Calmly. Casually. Naturally. Non-calm voices make the
       drawbridge slam shut. A shout = panic.

    o  If you fight about X on Tuesday, bring it up a few days later,
       calmly & casually saying "I guess you were not too crazy about
       X, huh?"

    o  If you get mad at someone, either her, say, or your neighbour,
       casually mention it later in the vein of "Gosh I was really
       mad at DJ, huh? and talk about it.  Hearing someone do a
       monday-morning quarterback routine in a calm voice is wonder-
       fully liberating for the repressed.

    o  If she's in the middle of an ST session, and you get any
       inkling she is trying to come out of it, Give Her Space.
       Don't crow.  God forbid someone utters "Feeling Better Now?"
       Drives the STer right back in the cloud.

    o  If she actually starts saying why she is mad, tries to choke
       out what she is feeling, give her the verbal room.  Don't
       blow up.  Don't argue back instantly. It's Ok to present
       your position and feelings, but present them in a far-from-
       argument tone.  

    o  You have to demonstrate people can utter negative angry things
       without the world ending. 

    Sigh. It can be a long process and it is hard for the non-repressed to
    deal with the irrationally repressed. It can be real difficult for you.
    But a home where people can speak their mind/anger/irritation is a
    thousand times happier than the other kind. 

    Meanwhile, back in 1967 with the cigarettes. After two weeks, I knew I
    had to say what was wrong. So I sat down on the bed, clenched my fists,
    shut my eyes, and in near hysteria, tears streaming, dizzy with panic,
    said "I'm angry at you because you didn't buy the cigarettes." 

    Irrationally repressed and inhibited, uttering that sentence was like
    jumping off a cliff, into the dark. 
    

re. -1  Thank you for sharing that..

You really covered it well.  I also had an ex who would not speak to me
for *months* and I am one that didn't like to say anything negative.
 I am slowly getting out of that mode. And yes, you are right it takes time.
But I am learning that the more I can express my anger, the more I can 
express my love.  Its neat, it really works that way, atleast for me.

One thing I have learned in the past year is holding emotions (bad or good)
inside is very harmful to your mental and *physical* health. Anger/hurt 
turned inside doesn't go away, until you release it!  Noone ever got so
anger they went crazy, but people have gone crazy holding emotions inside.

    Pete -
    
    I have been exposed to that "treatment" a few times too.  First
    it angers me....it seems so immature!  In my opinion, it is their
    way of getting back at you for getting the best of them and also,
    it is a perfect way to have control over someone at least for a
    short period of time.  When my husband used to ( and I emphasis
    used to, so there is hope) give me this treatment, I would say to
    him, depending on what his problem was at the moment, "Well, when
    you can be civil enough to talk to me about it, let me know. But
    for now, I'm not going to worry about it."  Go off, do your own
    thing, have a good time etc.  They want you stuck in the mode of
    trying to find out whats wrong, what did I do, P U N I S H !! It 
    works!! I swear it works.  They can't stand your going on without 
    them.  The first few times it was a struggle to see who could last 
    longer, after that he would come around after an hour or so, which 
    I can handle, what's an hour? SILLY isn't it?!

    re .21
    
      I don't clam up when I'm mad because I want to "punish" anyone,
    its just that I usually see very little reason to continue to 
    argue if I'm not getting anywhere, and also I am fearful that I'll 
    say something which I probably will regret instead of keeping my 
    mouth shut.  Hard words, once spoken are rarely forgiven.
    
      I think its important that one should know when to let off steam
    and when NOT to.  There should be some balance between the two. 
    
    Dave
        

    DAVE-
    
    Try "discussing" not arguing, sounds weird maybe, but sometimes
    if you can talk about whats on your mind without trying to make
    your point, be "right" however you want to put it...the threat is
    taken out of the situation.  Some people need to be explained to
    because they maybe are short sighted, have one track minds you know,
    can't think about alot at one time, are slow to catch on, or just
    want to know your theory.
    
    Lets face it, everyone loves a good argument once in awhile, a chance
    to voice your opinion and all that.  When my SO gets to the point
    of the dreaded *SILENT TREATMENT*, (which rarely happens now), thank
    god it doesn't last long and it isn't as deadly as it used to be,
    maybe I've learned to not take it personally.  And he has learned

    re .23  
    
      "Arguing" was a poor choice of words.  "Discussing" would 
    describe it much better.  In any case, I've learned to be a 
    little more paitent, for a little longer, before I start 
    becoming reluctant to continue the discussion.  
    
                       
    Dave

    
    I read .19 and almost choked. I would have described it differently,
    for me its a panic reaction.  If something strikes a sensitive area
    I either go ST and ignore or become sarcastic/hostile.  In either
    case my anger is not being relieved.  I have learned to consider
    it very unhealthy, but it's tough on the viewing public. I've learned
    that I trigger on certain types of people or types of attacks. 
    I am very sensitized to people that would verbaly abuse me.  At
    present I can reconnect with what set me off part of the time.
    
    Some of the suggestions for the other side work well in getting
    me out. but that requires the other to understand that.  Sometimes
    the persons that trigger me don't wish to release (abusers).  Needless
    to say I'm still working on this.
    
    This has all been said at some risk to myself...