Conference quark::human_relations-v1

>>>    What is the opposite of Love???
    
	Indifference.    

    re .1

    NOTES.

    
    	Hate.
    
    	Joe Jas
    

    
    Yup, I say hate too. But you can't hate until you've loved.

    Re: .2	Hmmmmm, so the opposite of love is bingo, eh?
    
    		I'll have to avoid those places.
    
    
    
    							:-)

          Sin.  A transgression, esp. when deliberate.
          Hatred or indifference. More indifference.
          Lacking the courage to Love. As in oneself 
          or one's neighbor. People have the ability.
    
                                               Russ

    
    Now that's exactly what I wanted to see.  Isn't it interesting 
  (  and I'm taking something for granted here, and hope I'm wrong )
    that the women say indiffernce, and the men hate. Hmmmmmmmm
    
    ( RWheeler, expose :-) yourself, Male or Female???)
    
    
    I think if you see love as the ultimate form of acceptance then
    hate is really not the ultimate form of rejection, for hate
    connotes(sp) the continuance of the connection, whereas indifference
    releases any tie, and in fact nueters the relationship.
    
    Whaddya tink???
    
    
    
    
    

    
    	Hurt.

    
    	The correlation between male/hate and female/indifference has
    been drawn to soon.
    
    	I would say that hate cannot be the pure opposite of love because
    both are strong emotions and therefore create a "similar" level
    of feeling. Indifference is far better in my opinion as as I would
    regard that someone "loving" me is the greatest compliment they could
    pay me whereas someone being "indifferent" to me would be the worst
    insult.
    
    Steve
    

    
    
    
    Lust..
    

These are very complex emotions. As such, I would say that there is a range
of emotional levels varying from...


LOVE <---------------- INDIFFERENCE ----------------> HATE

I think that love is inexplicable, indifference is the norm, and hate is
easily understandable. If indifference were not the norm, there would be
an awful lot of mean mothers out to kill you. If it were not for love,
we would all kill each other faster than we are. However, love has become
a big killer with AIDS. Now what?

< Note 460.9 by CAPVAX::PAPISON "You see what I'm saying....." >
>>>    ( RWheeler, expose :-) yourself, Male or Female???)
    
    
	Female.   Aka Killer from many soapbox's ago.
	
	/Robin    
    
    

        As I define love to be "to consider, care for, and value someone
        as much as or more than yourself", I would say that radical
        egoism is the opposite of love.
        
        JimB. 

    re: .13
    
    >>	Lust.
    
    	Ooooo, I strongly disagree.  I think the opposite of love is
    	deprivation of *life*.
    
    						Carla
    

    
    
    	The opposite of love is evol.
    
    							mike

    re .0  A friend of mine once said " I don't hate anybody. There's
    a few people I despise, though."
    
    Maybe the opposite of love is spite ?

    love means caring, yes?
    if you hate someone, you _care_ about them, albeit in a nasty way.
    
    indifference is _not_ caring.
    
    When someone you hate honestly _doesn't_care_ that you hate them,
    you get frustrated in your hatred.
    
    When someone hates you and you honestly _couldn't_care_less_, their
    hatred doesn't mean a thing to you.
    
    Lee

    apathy.
    but I really don't care.

    lifelessness
    
    

    Single
    

    re .28:
    
    Just because no one said anything doesn't mean no one understood. Maybe
    you were so eloquent that nothing needed to be added. 
    
    	Jon

When I read .0 my immediate reaction was to answer "indifference".  But then,
if indifference is the opposite of love, then love should be the opposite of
indifference.  But that doesn't seem to work, somehow (obsession would seem
closer here).

Maybe "hate" really is the right answer.  At least love makes more sense as
its opposite.

					--Q (Dick Wagman)

    But love is the opposite of indifference, isn't it?

    RE: .30
    
    Perhaps Love and Hate are opposite ends with Indifference being
    the midpoint.
    
    Kak

    love and hate are both emotions,you have to expend something to
    do both.
    indifference is nothing.
    i would much rather suffer hate than indiffernce.
    
    my vote would have to go with indifference being the opposite of
    love.
    that sounds crazy doesnt it?
    
    kelly

    I too vote for indifference.  I agree with the noter who said something
    to the effect that 'the opposite of love may be indifference, but
    the opposite of indifference is not, always, love'.
    
    But things like that are not uncommon.  The opposite of LEFT is
    RIGHT, but the opposite of RIGHT may *not* be LEFT...
    
    jim
    

    RE: .34
    
    I dunno. One could say that the opposite of LEFT is GONE.
    
      Alan

    Or STAYED (I left, he stayed)

    re: .-1
    
    You know that and I know that...
    
    	...and now *everybody* knows that!  nuts ;-)
    
    But there could still be other, more proper examples.  Folks?
    jim
    

                  
    
    
               I'M CONFUSED?
    

No, No, No... Confusion is not the opposite of love.  To a certain extent,
confusion, or at least uncertainy and trust is part of love or being in love.

Jim. :-) 

    re .40   I don't know about that. One Conf. confuses me alot,
           and I hope that I'm not *infatuated* by it. :-).
    
           It's infantile hatred disguised as indifference, the hope
         being to discourage people with good intentions and ideas from
         contributing to a conversation, helping others, to just being
         able to live as fully an expressed life as one is capable.
    
           It's people who often say "Shut up and listen," never shutting
         up themselves and never listening. Eventually the opposite
         of Love can even involve those people that listen to those
         that do not listen. Or care. For such efforts are fruitless
         with no chance of bearing fruit.
    
           The opposite of Love is an individual insisting upon paying
         a price that needs not be paid. The opposite of love is not
         even thinking about giving back to nature that which is taken.
         One simple act is picking up papers or cans littered on the
         ground. No! - that's not MY job!  Oh yes it is.
      
           The opposite of Love is reading shitty books, viewing shitty
         movies, and talking shit. And hanging out with ...
    
           The opposite of Love is knowing damn well what Life is about,
         and not living it that way. It's giving in when a stand needs
         be taken, it's dreaming when action is warranted, it's lying
         or being quiet when truth needs a screaming out, it's unactions
         that needed an action, it's an unfed mouth in the streets you
         could've fed but didn't. 
    
           The opposite of Love is playing politics - favorites in
         places where such things ought not be done. It's the feeling
         of being and seeing harassment while not meriting such, and
         it's feeling and seeing the existence of double standards being
         applied in areas where no such actions can rationally be
         justified. It's being the victim of such types of discrimination.
    
           The opposite of Love is fooling oneself that a person possesses
         wisdom when such person embodies bigotry. It's deceiving oneself
         to continue to listen to fools when there are important people
         to really listen to. It is not searching for and POSSESSING
         those people that one needs to live life to its full potential.
         It is the constant reality of not having such people that are
         richly aware of life--within grasp of one's own life. Inside
         one's own life--and inside their life. It's knowing that one
         needs and is capable of having such people in one's life, but
         never spending the energy to get such distinguished company
         into one's life. It's knowing the price such wasted resources
         yield. 
    
           The opposite of Love then, is all those things that are not
         of Love, from Love, nor worthy of it.  It is all those things
         that do not last, be it sin which is little more than but a
         leaning towards things of pain and death, to waste which is
         energy ill spent, to all those things that we know and 'love'
         but which we know have little or no real value. It is consuming
         resources that can ill afford to be exploited, to ignoring
         that which needs nourishment. 
    
           In so many ways, it is we who have but ourselves to know.
    
                                             
                                                            Russ

    re .41
    
>                                It is not searching for and POSSESSING
>         those people that one needs to live life to its full potential.
    
    Can't POSSESS a person, Russ.
    
    lt

    re .42   You missed the point completely. It's so obvious it
           doesn't even bear explaining.
    
                                                       Russ

    re .43 in re my .42
    
    I missed the point?  Please explain -- I'd be very interested in
    knowing how a desire to "POSSESS" a person could even remotely be
    construed as love.
    
    Lee

    re .44   Why do you persist in thinking in such outmoded and
           traditional value systems?  IE Someone possessed as property?
    
             Honestly Lee, that never even entered my mind!
    
             And Lee, a real opportunity for self-enrichment would be
           to ask yourself - why you did.
    
                                                         Russ

    re love and possessing
    
    I don't get .45, Russ:
    
.45>    re .44   Why do you persist in thinking in such outmoded and
.45>     traditional value systems?  IE Someone possessed as property?
.45>              Honestly Lee, that never even entered my mind!
.45>       And Lee, a real opportunity for self-enrichment would be
.45>       to ask yourself - why you did.
    

    Huh?  Questions: 1) why I did what? and 2) the following (extracted
    from your .41) seems to me to refer to POSSESSING someone as property.
    Since that never entered your mind, could you please clarify just
    what you _did_ mean by it?
    
.41>         The opposite of Love is fooling oneself that a person possesses
.41>       wisdom when such person embodies bigotry. It's deceiving oneself
.41>       to continue to listen to fools when there are important people
.41>       to really listen to. It is not searching for and POSSESSING
                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
.41>       those people that one needs to live life to its full potential.
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    I must have misread this underlined bit.  I realize you feel it
    isn't worth explaining, but I am quite curious as to what it DOES
    mean since you have said my interpretation of that phrase is off.
    For what it's worth, I'm not just trying to needle you -- I honestly
    wonder what you mean by it.

    Lee

    re .46   "Why I did what?"
    
            You assumed I was talking about a woman and then you further
          assumed, wrongly, that I was thinking of a woman in a love
          relationship in which I thought of her as property.
    
            As Thoreau said, "Be careful what you own."  :-)
    
           Seriously Lee, since you understand feminist teachings I
         believe the answer to your question in .46 would be self-evident.
    
          "The following (.41 extract) seems to me to refer to Possessing
         someone as property.  ( from .41:  " POSSESSING those people...")"
    
           Thinking of Women as property, something I have never done,
         is an example of a traditional and evil value system -- one
         which the feminist movement pointed out!?
    
           Lee, perhaps what's needed here is for me to explain exactly
         what it is that I value with regards to love, values, and yes--
         even 'possessions.'  
    
                                                         Russ

    re .0   Loss of the family and forces against the family.
            Also the advances of non-procreative sex.
    
    
                                                         Russ

    re: .48
    
    Mmmm.  Maybe I misunderstood your note, but I have a problem with
    what you seem to say.
    
    How do you mean 'Loss of the family'?  I have lost my father to
    death, yet I still love him and my faith tells me that he still
    loves me.  My mother-in-law lost her son to drugs, but she still
    loves him and that may be what brings him around again.
    
    'Forces against the family' is also something I don't understand.
     What do you mean by that?  The economy is a 'force' acting against
    the family, yet the economy can not love, nor can it do the opposite
    of love.
    
    The 'advances of non-procreative sex' is THE OPPOSITE OF LOVE!!??
     I would love to hear this defined in detail.  I have recreational
    sex (eg: non-procreative sex) with my wife and beleive me it has
    nothing to do with a lack, lessening or opposite of love.  It is
    an expression of love, romance and affection - not to mention one
    h_ll of a tension releiver!
    
    Please enlighten me.  I mean no sarcarsim (*Really*) and truly want
    to understand what it is you are trying to say.
    
    jim
    

    re .0
    
    opposite of LOVE....a closed mind, heart and spirit.
    
    either that or..............lima beans
    

        Several replies in this discussion regarding the humorous side
        of the term "recreational sex" have been set hidden by the
        moderators. Some of them have probably gone beyond the line of
        what it is acceptable or prudent to say in a DEC corporate
        document which is the official status of a DEC-owned Notes
        conference. Some of these may very well be unhidden when the
        moderators have the time to discuss them amongst ourselves. As
        two of us have work deadlines and one has a very important
        deadline in their personal life, we cannot give it our fullest
        attention at present.
        
        This discussion is not write-locked. Please continue the
        discussion of what is the opposite of love, including whether
        non-procreative sex is the opposite of love, but please no more
        witty notes about recreational sex.
        
        Thank you,
        JimB.

    	CAROL (HA)
    

    re .49  'Loss of the Family'
    
             Decline of interest and involvement in ones immediate
             local community.  ie Town Hall meetings, conservation
             efforts, kinship with neighbors.
    
             Selecting Supermarkets over the Milkman, the loss of
             a genuine Family Doctor, ignoring local newspapers
             in favor of Big City ones, a TV show over an afternoon
             in the Library.
    
             Thinking more of National (or State) elections than of
             local ones.  Not knowing personally who represents your
             Community.   And as likely - not giving a damn.
    
             'Forces against the Family'
    
              Like the Family, the State struggles for the undivided
              loyalty of its members.  The two have long been at odds
              with one another.  An inversely functional relation exists
              between the two institutions. 
    
              "When the family is a powerful allegiance, as in traditional
               China, the state may reign, but it does not rule; it
               is relatively weak.  Conversely, when the state is powerful,
               as in the Soviet Union and in lesser degreein the U.S.
               and other Western nations, the family tie is weak, loose,
               and spastic."
    
               "*Family* here does not mean the small household group
                that is customarily the referent in our time.  What
                is thought of as the family today is no more than a
                pitiful remnant of a once strong and pervasive kinship
                community, which counted the unborn and the dead as
                well as the living, which extended itself into all 
                aspects of individual life - economic, political, legal,
                cultural, psychological, and biological - and which
                in political terms was a government itself, monarchy
                or republic, with no nonsense about equality of membership.
                Justice, not equality, was the sovereign value of the
                family.  When the word *family* was used until a century
                or so ago, one instantly thought of, not the nuclear
                or conjugal group, with husband, wife, and immediate
                children - a group that today in the U.S. has shrunk
                to a pathetic 2.78 average size - but the longitudinal
                family of generations in time, the family of blood line,
                of tradition and history, of ancestors and planned-for
                posterity."
    
                Add sexual liberalism and various liberal ideologies
                as factors regarding family/community life.
    
                'Non Procreative Sex'
    
                 Preoccupation with acts other than those that lead
                 to or involve intercourse.
    
                 Acts or controls that have no chance of producing a
                 child.
    
                 Sex that creates life where intercourse has no role.
                 ie Medical events.  From invitro-fertilization to
                 Surrogate mothers to cloning to further gene manipulations
                 to that which lies beyond these 'wonderful things.'
    
                 I'm not sure what lies BEHIND all these 'advances'
                 but an increasingly closer Male-Female bond is not
                 among them.
    
                                                  Russ P.