Conference quark::human_relations-v1

Gale,

You definition of Old Fashioned is pretty vague.  When I think of Old Fashioned,
I usually think of specific things...  I think that your definition still
exists, and I think people still like to be courted.

Sometimes, your idea of romantic doesn't match the idea of the person whom
you are courting.  My idea of romantic is off the wall, surprises, ... sort
of Woody Allen without the cynicism.  Ric's mother never thought of me being
romantic, though, even though I have given her flowers, cards, green M&M's,...

Jim.

    As an "old married" of over 19 years, I still likebeing courted.
    When I get in the car at night and find my husband has bought me
    a bunch of flowers it is really special. and yes we do sometime
    exchange remarks on non business topics while on the phone at work.
    Really wonderful - especially since working and raising kids doesn't
    leave a lot of time for "courting".

Well, for me, "courting" starts with the the first "date". My definition of a
"date" is probably a little different then others. I'm very casual and informal;
I hate dinner dates, or a dinner and a movie especially for the first date. 

Recently (well lets say in the previous 18 months to 8 months ago), I have been
trying to find someone for a serious relationship. During that time, I joined a
dating service, and also was looking on my own, in my own way, sometimes from
referrals from people, or notes files or whatever. 

During that time, I have had a lot of "first dates" and many never made it past
that, for whatever reason. However, I found for me a "first date" method that
works well; it allows some freedom and an informal chance to get to meet someone
and talk, as well as let them share some of my "life" or some things I'm
interested in. The basic "schedule" consists of inviting them over to my house
for an afternoon, and dinner. The afternoon activity generally consists of
something I like to do outside (I love the outdoors and nature); in the summer
its often a canoe trip, in the winter a walk/hike locally in the woods. And,
before, during, and after, there is the chance to talk, if we want. Or, we can
just enjoy the activity, and not feel out of place sitting across each other at
a dinner table, with blank stares, and speechless. 

And, due to my dislike of formal eating in general, I cook dinner for her. I'm
not a real "cook", but I make something I frequently have; a good steak and some
veggies. Not a "romantic" dinner with candles and all either. Simple. 

Afterwards, there is the option of watching a movie or concert on laserdisc or
the VCR. 

And then, the evening generally winds down and they go home. 

I have found that of all the "dates" I have had, that the 3 that "accepted" this
as our first date, turned out to be the ones I liked the best, and dated the
longest. Again, I feel during this time I reveal a lot of my normal everyday
lifestyle and interests, either explicitly from talking, or just from what I am
doing, and the woman can get a feeling of what I like, and we can see if we
share some common interests. Not that is a requirement, but ... 

Then, if (when) we "pass" the first date, I start courting a little more.
Flowers, cards, little presents, phone calls, (some of Gale's "old fashioned
courting" I guess :-). And, planning future dates too :-) 

The reason all this stopped 8 months ago, is I found someone I really liked (one
of the 3 that "accepted" my date package) and we have spent all our time
together now, and still enjoy all the things we did on the first date and much,
much more! And, I feel the romanticness (sorry if there isn't such a word), and
the "courting" is still going on (initiated from both sides independently), even
after she has moved in with me. And, I hope it goes on for the rest of our
lives! 

From the base note:

"The second was where a male received a balloon bouquet at work, and he seemed
pleased as punch, and would probably be delighted if it happened again." 

:-) :-)

And who said courtship was dead? [And, no, it was not from the author of .0]

    
    	I agree with .2 and .5, that you have to "know" someone a bit
    before you start calling them everyday or whatever. I liked Suzanne's
    story of how she fell in love in several "participative activity"
    type dates (vs the kind of date where you sit and watch; a show,
    a movie, ect). I agree with Bill's idea of doing something that
    you'd do that day anyway, it implies "just being yourself" which
    is the best you can do - I saw the same kind of thing in Suzanne's
    story - having casual fun.
    
    	*I'd* be careful with a person who tried to make a BIG impression
    right off the bat, with money, flamboyancy, extra amounts of attention,
    ect.
    
    	Joe Jas

I absolutely love all the little "courtship" gestures that go with a
relationship.  I feel that it is important to make people feel that 
they are special.  These little acts of kindness should probably
reflect the degree of comfort or intimacy present in the relation-
ship.
I agree with one of the previous replies, I would feel ackward if
someone I didn't know very well gave me an expensive gift.  Conversely,
if I was dating someone that I was starting to care about very
deeply, and he took a walk through a field to pick some wildflowers 
for a bouquet, well, that would mean the world to me.
It only takes a minute to scribble the words I LOVE YOU on a slip
of paper and tuck it away for a loved one to find later on.  And you
might truely brighten someone's day by doing that!

Nancy

    Well, here's a reply from one of us married folks.  I remember that
    when my husband and I started dating, he used to take me for walks
    along the Charles River, and up to the Hancock Tower so that we
    could watch the sunset.  Those were some of our best dates ever!!
    He's always been the kind of guy who brings me flowers every now
    and then (just picks them up from the street vendors).  Sometimes
    he just cuts a few roses from the front yard before I leave for
    work so that I have them to enjoy all day here.  
    
    Around Christmas, we go down to the Common and just walk around
    and enjoy the atmosphere, or to some of the local shopping areas
    that are all decorated and have lots of people around.  And yes,
    he even buys all my lingerie.  Sometimes we pick it out together,
    and sometimes he just surprises me.
    
    I guess we try to keep the romanticism in our marriage, and we've
    found it doesn't have to cost money to have that, though a nice
    romantic dinner in a quiet restaurant every now and then is nice.
    
    Cathy

*blush*

I've known quite a few ladies that I'd like to pick out some lingerie for, but
how does a guy manage to do it without embarassing himself to death? :-)

I mean, I can't bring myself to walk into such a place and poke around untill I
find what I'd like to see her in (well sort of in).  And really, how do you know
what will look good, be the right size, etc, yet still be a surprise? 

I even tried it with the lady present, but we were both too embarassed... Even
so, you still can't try it on her and see how it looks to you. 

Jim.  :-}

    re: lingerie
    
      I know this doesn't belong here but I couldn't help myself....
    
      One day a man went into a department store to buy his wife an
    anniversary present. Not knowing what she'd like he venture up to
    one of girls working there and asked what should he buy. The girl
    suggested he buy his wife a sexy bra and even offerd to help him
    pick one out. He thought this was a wonderful idea and so the two
    of them went to the ladies lingerie department. When they got there
    the clerk asked..
      "What size is your wife?"      
       the husband answered..  "Gee, I really don't know"
       the clerk asked.. "Well, is she as big as a melon?"
       he answered...   "No,  a little smaller"
       the clerk asked.. "How about an orange?"   
       "No, a little smaller"  he responded.
       "maybe the size of a peach?"        "No, still a little smaller."
       "How about an egg?"       "Thats it!" exclaimed the husband "now
        fry it!!!!"
    
    sorry.... I couldn't resist
    Ralph 

    The task of buying lingerie is made easier, at least on the West
    Coast, by a store named "Victoria's Secret".  They specialize in
    fancy things...and have probably the greatest catalog in the world.
    You can buy mail-order, or you can go in and be treated as a gentleman
    looking for something special.  The Secret lies a cut above a very
    good department store, and about 14 light years ahead of Friedric's
    of Hollywood.  Surely you Easterners have something similar.

    Victoria's Secret is one of the best places I know to max out my
    credit cards. ;-) I love their stuff. (And so do some NETPARTYERS.
    Remember the purple and peach outfit I wore to a couple of parties?
    (I still hear about that one.))
    
    One year for my birthday, my SO said, "Pick $$$ worth from the
    catalog."  It was wonderful!
    
    If you can sneak a peak and find out what size blouse and slacks
    your lady wears (how you do *that* is left to your imagination),
    I'll would be willing to bet you could get help on sizing from the
    very helpful folks, either at Burlington Mall, Copley place, or
    over the phone.
    
    Tamzen

    A man I know tells me that when he wants to purchase something
    silky and pretty for a lady-friend, he goes into the appropriate
    section of the store, looks around for a while, and notices which
    of the outfits the women seem to be admiring the most.  (Women
    have this habit of walking through the lingere section of the
    store and running their hands over the merchandise until they
    come across something that they like.  They they take it out,
    look it over, look at the price tag, think, and put it back.)
    His method seems to work, and can even be applied from a "safe"
    distance if, say, the men's section is across from the lingere
    section.  Of course, you *could* go through the merchandise
    until you find something YOU think feels good, but some guys
    are a little shy about doing this.
    
    --Louise

	By the way, Victoria's Secrets also has a mail order catalog,
	if you're too shy (or busy or far away) to select something in
	person.  The prices range from reasonable to <ulp!>, but I'd
	agree that just about all of it is lovely!

	You can also "browse" through the catalog with your SO... not
	quite the same as having stuff modelled for you.  

	And yes, they also carry men's stuff - mostly silk pjs, robes,
	etc.

		HH

    
    Does anyone have an address for Victoria's Secret?  Sounds like
    a great catalog.
    
    When I'm trying to buy lingerie for my wife, I go to the lingerie
    section of the store (good start, eh?), and look for a clerk about
    the same size as my wife.  If I find such a clerk, I then tell her
    that I'm trying to buy something for my wife, either sexy, warm,
    comfortable, lounging wear, whatever the case may be, and that my
    wife is about her size.  If I have any price constraints, I mention
    this also. My next step is to ask the clerk, (given the above
    scenario), what does she suggest, and what would she like to get
    as a gift from her husband/boyfriend/SO? 
    
    This has always worked for me, and I've used this method for all
    the girl friends I bought lingerie for, and now for my wife. I've
    never had a complaint with the gift using this method. 
    
    P.S. If I can't find a clerk the same size as my wife, I go to the
    cutest one, and with an embarassed look, go through the same routine,
    and tell her my wifes size. Works every time. ;^)
    
    Ray

    Re: .17
    
    	The last time I hung around the lingere department of a store
    	watching women holding up undergarments and picking out negligees,
    	I was asked to leave by the store manager.  They claimed I was
    	wheeezing.  However during the 6 hours prior to getting the
    	boot, I did notice that women don't seem to appreciate suggestions
    	or compliments on their choice of purchases.  And then they
    	turn around and call men sexists.   Sheeesh, you just can't
    	win.

    	Jake

    There is a Victoria's Secret in the new Pheseant Lane Mall in Nashua.
    How do I know, I've been there already looking for Christmas presents
    for my lady.
    
    <CIA>
    
    

    There's also a Victoria's in Chestnut Hill Mall, Newton,MA...better
    yet there's a Sheer Elegance in the Galleria at Worcester. 
    
    Ann

    There is also a Victoria's Secret in the North Shore Shopping Center.
    That's where my husband gets all my lingerie.  It's a class
    establishment, and he has always commented that he doesn't feel
    embarrassed to look for things in there.  They also keep records,
    so you could bring your SO in and have her fill out a card with
    all the necessary info like sizes and color preferences.  In my
    case, I break out with a rash if I have any lace next to my skin,
    so that is a special consideration.  (Now that's a challenge!! Have
    you ever tried to find nice lingerie with no lace?)
    
    And somehow, I've never found it embarrassing to try the stuff on
    and have my husband peek into the fitting room to see if he likes
    it, but maybe I'm just an exhibitionist at heart :-))
    

    
    RE:  .23  "silk allergy"
    
    Another source you might look into, if silk is a problem, is the
    Garnet Hill mail order catalog.  They are an outfit up in New Hampshire
    that sells a variety of natural fibre lingerie and other clothing
    in cotton, silk, and wool from all over the world.  Some of the
    stuff they have looks very nice and everything we've bought has
    been excellent quality.
    

Re: .14

The Victoria's Secret Frangrance is NO secret to me!  I'm wearing
my brand spanking new acquisitions, and have been crying since
noon when the 'fragrance' really got to my eyes and sinuses.

I like the color, the feel, the fit, but not the stinkum.