Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    	Unfortunately - the only way to handle such people is to ignore
    them and their comments. I know - it doesn't take away the pain
    of their words - but then neither will a reciprocal Put-down.
    
    	Yes it is tempting to want to hurl some equally damaging words
    back at them - but doing so will only make matters worse, for by
    so doing, one allows these people to lower one's self to their low
    level.
    
    	Forgive them for they know not what they do ...
    
    	So sorry for your sister, hope things will turn around for her
    one day.
    
    	Guy B.
    

    
    	Rather than ignore them, or sling back an equal damage, why
    not just come right out and ask if they have any idea just what
    such thoughtless utterances can do to a person! Since they obviously
    do not know, simply tell them as bluntly as you can.
    
    	Stops 'em dead in their tracks, every time. "oh, gee, I...er,
    didnt realize....hmmmm...well, uh, guess...maybe...I...<sheesh>"
    
    	Joe Jas

    	I guess it depends on why you think the person did it -- if they
    are just being thoughtless, then I would point out just how unecessary
    and harmful it is.  Your sister undoubtedly has enough problems over-
    coming her own view of things, she doesn't need "help"/reminders from
    others.  That would boil me over too; your sister could be one of the
    most wonderful people in the world, but some folks will never see that
    and get to enjoy that because they don't know how to see past her
    imperfections.  It's probably just as well they don't know what they're
    missing.


    	On the other hand, if the person did it because they're -- how
    shall I say this -- "rude" in general, then it probably won't do any
    good.  It *might* make you feel better though!  ;-)


    Brian

    "It was such a burden being perfect."
    

         [Right on .2! Exactly!]
         
         Some further thoughts...
         
         I would need to make *sure* that *she* is bothered
         by these comments....some of which are results more
         of stupidity and callousness rather than a direct
         intent to inflict pain. I have found myself in several
         situations where I came galluping into the fray to
         *save* someone's feelings and have made it ever so
         much more obvious and painful by my intervention.
         I would need to make sure that *she* is not handling
         it in her own way....and the way she prefers.
         
         If the above is not the case, and she is terribly
         [subjective level there...] upset by the comments,
         I would need to spend some energy helping *her* learn
         to cope with the phenomena...[in such a way as .2].
         I would not always *be there* to help, you know?
         So, I would need to try and have her accept
         responsibility for taking a stand on the issue for
         herself. 
         
         One of the most frustrating things about another's pain
         or disfigurement is that it *is* their's. Another
         person can not [and I guess *should* not?] interfere
         except in the most subtle of ways, else we deny them
         coming to grips with reality. *My* lambasting a person
         for total lack of regard of a disfigured person's
         feelings may 1)embarass the person speaking, 2)embarass
         the disfigured person, 3)interfere with the "recovery"
         of the disfigured person and 4)have none of the desired
         effects that I fantasize. [sigh] I would *do* better
         to provide support, I think...although I might *feel*
         better yelling....[but it is not *my* feelings we
         are talking about here...Hmmmm?]
         
         Finally, after being so disgustingly reasonable about
         the whole thing...[sorry, sneaks up on me sometimes...]
         I would probably feel even more angry and upset
         than you do...[although reasonable in general I am
         a first class bitch about some things....and this
         topic fits neatly into my hot button area...]
         
         I must disagree with .1 on an emotional basis...if
         not a rational one....I would wait for the opportunity
         to pigeon-hole the offending person [away from the
         disfigured person, but *not* necessarily in private,
         an audience is a good tool...] and let the person have
         it with both barrels. I am not *sure* that ignorance
         or lack of education *ever* is an excuse for lack
         of common courtesy...and I have a sneaking, albeit
         unfounded, suspicion that a little more action and
         effort of the part of people to *defend* what is
         common and decent could not *hurt* the state of affairs.
         
         Melinda

    A thoughtless comment edged my way a few years back.
    
    "Boy you look anorexic, do you buy your clothes in the childrens
    department???"
    
    My answer??? "Would you go up to an over weight person and tell
    them he/or she is too big??? So what makes you think that what you
    just said to me is not going to hurt my feelings"?????
    
    good answer, good answer,....stopped her dead in her tracks.
    
    Lynne S. ;-)

    Perhaps a calm "How kind of you to notice."  Polite, but pointed.

    Miss Manners once suggested in a similar situation bursting into tears.
    If she can manage it, or at least put on a good act, it'll only have to
    be done once. It will have the desired effect -- making the idiot feel
    like an idiot.
    
    	Jon

    	Some great input, thanks!                                    
    
    	2 or 3 back, Yes my sister is hurt (deeply) by these comments
    	from strangers and doesn't know how to handle it effectively.
    
    	As much as I want to have her find her own way I feel she does
    	need support with and through this and if that's giving her
    	some ideas on how to counter offending comments by putting the
    	insensitiveness back where it belongs, then fine.  Maybe that
    	will help give her some strength.  She's been accustomed to
    	compliments not abuse and sure I'd like to take that all away
    	but that's not up to me.
    
    	I do realize that sometimes people don't think clearly before
    	speaking (I've been guilty of that) but to someone who is
    	obviously thoughtless a remark (.#?) like "That's funny, you
    	don't look rude" would be appropriate.
    
    	BTW, Just so I don't give the wrong impression, she's not
    	grossly disfigured but will not be receiving any face modeling
    	offers, something she had begun to look into right before the
    	accident.  She has good values and knows what is important 
    	in her world (her mind, soul, and heart and what she can give 
    	to others) but it doesn't help to have lost something which 
    	she didn't get a chanceo accept andfully enjoy - her outer 
    	beauty.
    
    Mary Jo
    
    

    
    
    There are several 'appropriate' responses when asked a question
    that you really don't want to answer:
    
    "Why do you ask?"
    
    "I can't answer that question at this time."
    
    "Gee, I don't now, what do you think?"
    
    "I don't have an answer right now, I need some time to
     think about the question and sort out my thoughts.  I'll
     get back to you."
    
    I use the first and second response most often.
    
    For an inappropriate comment, try:
    
    "Gee, why would you say that?" (or a variation thereof).
    
    Remember:
    
    You are NOT required to reply to any question or statement
    that is made to you.  I had to 'remind' myself that a rude
    question or comment does not require a polite response.  We
    are all 'trained' to be polite and it's difficult to remember
    that an assertive response is often more appropriate than a
    polite one.  (I am not implying that assertive behavior needs
    to be rude behavior-just firm and vague).
    
    Deb
    
    

    What I do in a situation like that is to come back with something
    that is simular and insult myself.  For example....if someone said...
    "You must have been real pretty before..."  I would reply  "Nope
    I was a troll, the accident helped me out alot."  This tells the
    moron who said the comment how stupid the comment was and makes
    him/her very uneasy about saying it.  I have even recieved apologies
    from jokers who pick apart anything they don't think is perfect.
    
    The Rebel

    Re 11
    
    Bill, that's a good one!
    
    Lynne S.

    this all reminds me of the "you have such a pretty face..." comments
    that fat people get.  What always killed me about them was the unspoken
    "...it's a shame about the rest of you".  And also was the implied,
    "it's all your fault", because for some reason certain people believe
    that weight is totally controllable all the time.  These people
    believe fat people just don't care, or have no self-control.  There
    are many reasons that people are fat (emotionally and physically),
    and these reasons are not always controllable, much like facial
    scars caused by accidents.

    I despise others who judge you based on your looks.  Often, if they
    adjudge themselves "better looking" (more normal?  more perfect?)
    than someone, they immediately assign slight inferiority to that
    person, which they feel allows them not only to pity the person,
    but to make "helpful" remarks..... (groan)
    
    -Jody
        
    -Jody
    

    Responses I've found to be effective:
    
    To a rude/thoughtless question:
    "Is there a specific reason why you need to know?"
    
    To an unsolicited rude comment:
    "That's an interesting observation -- can you elaborate on it?" 
    
    With the latter you may, of course, run into someone *so* boorish
    that they *do* elaborate, but so far, I've only gotten blushes and
    stammers (soooo gratifying!)
    
                             ...Lisa V...

    A second vote for ignoring the person and the comment, but to be
    effective it has to be done in a manner that is a silent way of
    saying: Neither you nor your comment is worth a bit of my time or
    energy.  A deadpan, momentary stare directly into the other person's
    eyes and turning away leaving them without a reply or acknowledgement
    can be deadly.
    
    Steve
    

    It's tough to ignore rude, boorish behavior when you are a child
    yourself.  I guess that is because a child doesn't have the experience
    to recognize that sort of behavior for what it is, and so thinks that
    the fault is his/her own for not "measuring up" somehow.  And it
    doesn't help that the worst offenders in the "rude comment" arena are
    other children, who also don't know better than to behave this way (no
    excuse if the offender is an adult, but some people never learn any
    better).
    
    I went through my whole childhood hearing "what's that red thing on
    your nose??" all the time, and was a sort of social outcast, like most
    children who look "different" from the others.  When laser surgery
    became available about ten years ago, I finally had most of it removed;
    that couldn't be done for any price (and would have been tough for my
    folks to manage anyways) when I was a kid because the birthmark was
    right next to my eye.
    
    /Charlotte

    
    About 15 years ago, due to a skin disorder, I temporarily lost the
    pigment in my hands. I was working in a retail store and a woman
    walked up and asked me what was wrong with my hands. I replied
    "nothing, why do you ask?" She said "but your hands are all white"
    (I am black, for those of you that don't know me) and I said "so
    are yours". She walked away very embarassed.

    Re: .17
    
    Touche!  One of the best I've heard.
    
    Steve
    

                                                                
     Yet another vote for ignoring the person(s)! 
      
    .15 - Great comment, a deep stare can be devastating.
      
     My sister is handicapped. Though physically "normal", whatever
    that means, her behavior can be quite unordinary. I have had to
    deal with comments and stares for many years. Many times I have
    completely lost-it and made quite a scene in public. It never helped,
    in fact it probably made the person feel above me. I have learned
    that a stare straight into their eyes will cause them to turn and
    continue on their way.
    
    Also, as one reply pointed out, the person who makes a rude
    remark about a difference between the victim and "normal" society,
    may subconcieously be assimilating themselves to be superior. Indeed
    the roots of predjudice can be traced to this, or even the annihalation
    of humans. The technique was refined by the Nazi's. First you single
    out those who are different, then you portray them to be subhuman
    (where you are superior of course), then you may extinguish them.
    
    Those who allow themselves to judge "normal" and "different", are
    playing with fire. We are all unique and should be appreciated
    for our differences!
    
      
    

"the person who makes a rude remark about a difference between the victim and
"normal" society, may subconcieously be assimilating themselves to be superior.
Indeed the roots of predjudice can be traced to this, or even the annihalation
of humans. The technique was refined by the Nazi's. First you single out those
who are different, then you portray them to be subhuman (where you are superior
of course), then you may extinguish them."

Don't you think you are going a bit too far?

Never ascribe to malice what stupidity can explain.

Jim. 

    This topic reminds me of the film "MASK".  The way the boy handled
    himself was remarkable.  He just naturally rose above anyone that
    tried to be a detractor.  It was an inspiration to see that film!
    
    rng

When someone has been rude to me or someone I'm with, I like to use the 
technique of taking in a breath as if I was going to speak (thus getting their 
attention), and looking them directly in the eye. Then I let the breath out in a
prolonged sigh and lower my eyes as if to say "Never mind, it's not worth 
explaining it to you." This usually causes them to reflect on their statements a
bit.

I also don't understand people who are physically rude. Many times at work, I 
will be walking down the hallway and two people will be coming the other way 
side-by-side. Will one of them drop behind to allow me to pass? I usually end up 
plastering myself against the wall so they can go by. Or other people who decide
that the middle of the hallway is the perfect place to hold a little conference.
They won't move to allow you to go through and sometimes it takes two or three 
"excuse me's" to get them to even notice.

Pete

    With a loud sigh, "Y'know, I was feeling rather chipper until you said
    that."
    
    	Jon

    Mary Jo, I wish your sister could meet my mother.  When my mother
    was younger she was in a fire which burned her face and hands. 
    This required skin grafts on her face which they took from her thighs.
    
    My mother obviously found the answer.  For her it seems to be to
    reach out to other people in a caring manner.  She is an outgoing
    person and has many good friends.
    
    My mother may have scars on her face, hands and thighs, but she 
    is a beautiful and joyful person with tremendous inner strength 
    for which I have great respect.
    
    Those people who make rude, thoughtless or hurtful comments about
    a person's outward appearance perhaps have not had experience to
    look for their inner strength.
    
    It is your sister is the greater person.