Conference quark::human_relations-v1

         One of my "favorite" things to hate!
         
         Significant Other ranks right up there with liver
         and beets in my book....the hair on the nape of my
         neck just vibrates over it....
         
         I like husband, lover, live-in, friend, person...almost
         anything better than SO...[which I always thinks BEGS
         to have someone put a B on the end of....]
         
         [grin]
         
         Melinda

    I don't know how many times I've thought the same thing as .0,
    I just never thought to make it into a discussion.  I've replied
    to a couple different files and have never used SO.  I typed it
    in a couple times but deleted it and wrote in boyfriend because
    it felt more natureal for me too.
    
    Sandie
                                     

    I happen to like the term specifically because it leaves so much
    room.  Gays can use it and not reveal their gayness, it doesn't
    imply marital status, or even whether or not you live together.
    It just means that the person is someone who shares significant
    portions of their life, usually partially expressed sexually.
    
    I happen to hate the terms "boyfriend" and "girlfriend".  They imply
    that the person is a "boy" or "girl"  There is a note dedicated
    to that battle already.  "Manfriend" and "Womanfriend" imply to
    me that the people are at least 85.  Friend is too unspecific -
    you can have any number of friends, but most people limit the number
    of SOs they have at a given time (usually to one).  Lover only talks
    about one aspect of the relationship, and seems a little risque.
    
    If you don't like the term SO, coin a new one, but the alternatives
    aren't too appealing to me.
    
    Elizabeth

    
    I happen to like liver and beets!! 8*)
    
    Friend.... now there is a word that gets bandied about...
    
    I have many acquaintences... but it takes someone special for me
    to call him/her friend.
    
    No, SO just doesn't cut it... nor does "girl"friend.  I prefer
    to use the word "friend".  It leaves people's perception open
    to possiblities... and I like to keep 'em guessing... ;^)
    
    Gene~

    Here we go again with words....
    
    Boy and Girl have popped up again.....'nuff said on that one...
    
    SO is a yuppie fad that has spread to the general public.
    
    Wife and Husband are still used by most except a few who aren't
    really sure what they should be called.
    
    Mate or Lover is kinda crude.
    
    I personally like "Bestest Buddy in the whole wide world", but then
    again I'm just a kid.

    Isn't it funny how we all can get so tied up in words......
    
    Bill

    Well in our daily living environment we encounter a lot of
    different people who are living in different life styles.
    There is Sarah over there who tells me she is sharing a house
    with her 'fiance' but when asked about wedding dates...well
    she and he aren't going to get married, and don't plan to have
    kids. Then there is Bob. He is in his mid thirties and doesn't
    ever bring anyone to parties, but talks about a close friend.
    You suspect that Bob may be gay, and want him to be comfortable
    talking about the person he is close to, but understand that
    he can't discuss that openly, if he is. Then there is Amy age 23
    who is about to be married and wants to do nothing but talk about
    her 'man'. Finally there is Charles who has a close long term
    relationship with Fredrica, they've both been to your house many
    times they are now in their 50s and will never live together or
    marry but they have a committed personal relationship. 'boyfriend'
    'girl friend' 'lover' 'spouse' 'friend' all have meanings that
    could cause problems in talking with any of these people. The 
    advantage of S.O. is/was that it is gender neutral, you can use
    it for a man/woman no matter their sexual orientation with out offense,
    and it implies far less than spouse or fiancee does, but is less
    personal than 'lover' but more personal than 'friend'. If a friend
    of yours is coming to visit you can ask, is your guest an 'SO' or
    just a friend...which makes it easier to arrange bedding :-).
    A good friend of mine has started using the German word Schatzie
    (hope I spelled that right)...which I think means 'sweet heart'.
    Perhaps that would be a good alternate to S.O....actually I kinda
    liked Posslq 9...but it never caught on, prolly cause it didn't
    fit a lot of the 'what do you call that person' cases. :-)
    
    yours in search of a better word!
    
    Bonnie 
    
    9 Posslq...from the U.S. census report...'persons of opposite sex
    sharing living quarters'
    

    "Isn't it funny how we all can get so tied up in words......"
    
    As verbal and written communication are the primary means of 
    facilitation between members of the human race, I would think
    it inevitable to "get so tied up in words".
    
    But then again, perhaps that's not true for "dead horses".
    
    Gene~

    	There was some discussion about this in an earlier note as
    well  - note 339.  (I was re-reading some older notes, and came
    across that one!)

    	SO has always seemed a little awkward to me, at least in
    speech.  I usually use friend, guy I'm dating, or boyfriend
    (depending on what stage of the relationship).  In more serious
    relationships, fiancee or husband seem more natural.  Course,
    I've heard people use soul-mate, life-mate, and partner as well.
    I guess it boils down to whatever you're comfortable with.


    	Amy

    
    I had never heard the term, nor had I seen it, unitl I found out about
    NOTES.  I think it's a fad for the noting world.  Seems popular
    among certain noting groups.  Personally, I don't like it.  I still
    NEVER hear the term... only come across it in notes, and I discovered
    NOTES when 1987 rolled in.
    
    I know... with this term so often used in notes... it's a wonder
    no one ever says it.  But then... it's hard to believe Guns and
    Roses can sell a record, but there it is.
    
    Dwight

I seem to recall that at one time in this conference a new reader, European
perhaps, was confused at the use of the term "SO" and questioned whether it
stood for "salad Onion" - I thought that was great!

I, too, never use, or would use, the term. Personally, when I read it in the
notes of others, the connotation I get is "Never mind - it's none of your
f___ing business who this person is to me" - ergo I get turned off to the
noter real quick. On a less emotional level, I do think that some use the
term specifically for that reason - they DO want to keep the nature of
the relationship out of the issue.

-Jack

    I personally can't stand the phrase "significant other/SO".  Yuppies
    have given us some pretty weird phrases but this one is too much!
    Everytime I hear someone say it I think "does that mean everyone
    else isn't significant"?!
    I really don't feel comfortable calling the 42 year old man I've
    been living with for 8 years my "boyfriend" or "friend" because
    we're much more than that.  I prefer companion myself.
    Speaking of yuppie phrases, where'd this new one (IMHO) come from?
    It ranks right up there with "and oh bye the way"......  I swore
    if I heard that one, one more time I'd scream.  Who starts these
    phrases??
    

    	I vote to change it...... I think I will, instead of "Wife",
    say.................
    
    T M I P I M L W H S M W H I !!!!!  
    h o m e n y i h a h e h a s
    e s p r     f o s o   a p
      t o s     e     w   t p
        r o           n     i
        t n                 n
        a                   e
        n                   s
        t                   s

    
    There are many "significant other" people in my life.
    
    The term sounds like a "mind-meld,multipurpose word. We, in accounting
    use XXX. As in fill in the blank.
                                      
    How do you like these?
    
    Boyfriend,girlfriend-- I know it sounds childish but familiar.
    Husband,Wife,Exhusband, Exwife  ---> not broken, why fix?
    Malefriend,Manfriend,Womanfriend---> I don't know about these
    Date,Main squeeze,Sweet heart, Honey---> Generics
    Lover,Steady,Partner,Other half,Better half----->more generics
    
    What else?
    Kate
    
    

    re .14
    
    How do you pronounce that?
    
    Elizabeth
    

I am not sure I understand those people that object to 'SO'. The
English language misses a generic term for steady_date/boyfriend/
lover/fiance/live_in/husband, plus the corresponding female
counterparts. So, someone invented it. If you want to be specific,
say "boy friend", "lover" or whatever. If you want to be generic,
use "SO". 

Then, of course, there are those that object to the word
"vegetable", because, if you mean broccoli, why not be specific and
say so? 

-- Ron 

    I use the term SO when writing in notes, for the simple reason that
    it saves key strokes. When speaking with someone I usually say my
    boyfriend followed by his name and then proceed to use his name
    from then on. Or to confuse people, use his name first, explain later. 
    
    Gail

>< Note 725.16 by SSDEVO::YOUNGER "Smile when you feel like crying" >
>
>
>    re .14
>    
>    How do you pronounce that?
>    
>    Elizabeth
    
Just like it sounds!  .14, correct me if I'm wrong.... :)

I know that, at least in NE, we tend to shorten things as much as possible.
Especially when typing.  SO is convenient.  I hate reading/hearing "Significant
Other" and I hate hearing "SO", but don't mind reading "SO". 

I've hated the term "Significant Other" since I first heard it on a commercial.
A teenage girl was introducing her punk boyfriend to her dad as being her
"Significant Other".  Her dad didn't like it either!  :) 

      And if you both work for Digital it's your DECmate. liesl

    re: .15 (Kate)
    
    "Main sqeeze":  yeah. . .that's the ticket. . .a tip of the
    hat to you (and B.B. King, from whom I first heard the phrase).
    
    re: .21
    
    Ack, ptui!  Just fyi, Liesl, I've notified Leonard Pinth Garnell
    about that. . .
    
    
    I've also been partial to snookums or snookie but admittedly don't 
    use them too often.
    
    Steve

    Re .20  It wasn't SO that I was wondering about, it's     
    
    "T M I P I M L W H S M W H I !!!!!  "

    Suggested in .14
    
    Elizabeth

    re: .21  I wouldn't want to use DECmate to describe my special
    	     someone...to me it would imly a short term relationship...:-)
    
    re: .23 Personally I pronounce it Debbie...but I'm sure others
    	    have different ways..
    
    dv

    re: .23  & pronunciation of TMIPIMLWHSMWHI
    
    I think I just sprained my toungue. . .
    
    Thteve

    If someone isn't your SO.  Does that make him/her an insignificant
    other (IO)?
    
    Bill

    	
    	What? I thought "TMIPIMLWHSMWHI' kinda flowed from the tongue...
    
    Actually it is very close to the way Ive been talking lately. (every
    sentence I say comes out wrong).
    
    	But...if you really want to pronounce it, I suggest you close your
    eyes, Take a deep breath,and.......
    
    and spit it out.         
    
    `	On second thought I think I will Just use what is comfortable
    to me. "Barb" or "wife" sound great to me.

    Why not just use their first name and let folks guess if you are
    anything more then that...It can be such fun....I've heard lots
    of times..."I thought you were seeing so and so."  I say no, we
    are just great friends........
    
    Bill

	Pardon me if this opinion has already been expressed but, I got tired of
reading the replies about half-way through. (Not that I consider the _people_ 
writing them boring)

	What's wrong with referring to your SO/wife/husband/boyfriend/girlfriend
by their name? It's unique, has no sexual connotations, no maturity 
connotations, nothing but information on who the person is as an individual. If 
someone is curious enough to wonder exactly what relationship the two of you 
share, let them observe your interactions and it will become obvious. Seems 
simple enough to me.

Pete

    I've heard this discussion before...
    
    I Used SO when I was referring to my significant other in notes
    or less-personal mail...it's short, sweet, doesn't define future
    plans, and applies equally to hets and gays when used publically
    which is a nice sort of relationshipial equivalentizer.
    
    In more personal communique's it's "main squeeze" or, on occasion
    "stud muffin" ;).  "Best friend" is also apt.
    
    POSSLQ is fine if you are sharin living quarters, but SO, impersonal
    and trite though it may seem, methinks serves a valid purpose...
    
    -Jody
    

    
    	For myself, I never bother with terms like SO, I just use
    	the persons name and leave it at that. If someone else
    	thinks they need to know more, I question what book they are
    	writing.... Hey, what one person means to me is my business
    	and none of anyone elses.
    
    	Note:  All this IMHO
    
    	G_B

    A few people asked about the origin of "Significant Other". It
    isn't a "yuppie" term, as some seem to think. It's a specific
    term used by sociologists and psychologists that was appropiated
    by some wit, most likely as a joke, and it caught on.
    
    I use it most of the time for reasons given in previous notes
    (Elizabeth Younger stated them pretty well). I loathe the term
    "girlfriend". I haven't had a "girlfriend" since I was in kinder-
    garten. All my romantic relationships since then have been with
    women.
    
    POSSLQ is "cute", but often inaccurate. I have any number of friends
    who share "living quarters" (defined as house or apartments) with
    members of the opposite sex that they are not involved with sexually
    and/or romantically.
    
    But then, I sometimes get weird looks from people when I use the
    word "housemate" to describe either of the two men I share a house
    with. Since neither of them share a room with me, they are not my
    "roommates".
    
    --- jerry

    I have said here and elsewhere that using a person's name is my
    designation of choice.
    
    All of the others seem to include 'my' which is something I _try_
    to avoid when speaking of other human beings.  They're not really
    mine, you see.
    
    Context and frequency will usually indicate the person's standing
    in my life.
    
      Ann

    Re: .33
    
    Ann, what do you do when referring to relatives?
    
      Alan

    re.34 Alan, it's like this:
    
    Leotis [mother-in-law]
    Sam [father-in-law]
    Mother 
    Dad
    Wendy [sister]
    Carly [niece]
    Kit [sister-in-law]
    Phil, or the Slime [abusive ex-brother-in-law]
     .
     .
     .
    the nifty thing is that they all seem to have been issued names
    as standard equipment.
    
    and I do not _entirely_ avoid use of the word 'my'. If someone asks
    'who's <name>?', I wouldn't say 'Guess.'  nor do I correct people when
    they refer to 'your husband' or 'your sister'.
    
    My main point is, that it cannot possibly matter whether I'm married
    to Rick or dating him or living with him. That the frequency/context
    in which the name occurs would indicate that he is significant in
    my life.
    
    In my heart I feel it would cheapen a very special relationship
    to use a contrived and possesive label in referring to him.
    
    My preference,
    
      Ann

    	Ann, I've tried to explain this attitude towards people who'll
    	never refer to their children or spouses by name, only as "my 
    	daughter" or "my husband".  After hearing that one and only 
    	title repeatedly, I really begin to grow tired of what I con-
    	sider to be a display of possessiveness.
    
    	When I'm writing about my brother, I'll refer to him by name
    	and will indicate that he is my brother.  After the reference,
    	I'll call him by name.  I'm not his keeper, I don't own him, I
    	don't feel it's right to constantly apply the word "my" to him.
    	The same is true for someone I'm dating.  That person doesn't 
    	suddenly become mine.  If I'm referring to him in conversation, 
    	I'll call him by name and not worry if the other person wonders 
    	what the relationship is.  If I want that person to know, I'll 
    	tell them.  I'm not property and don't like others to refer to 
    	me as "their" anything, and I pass along that same courtesy to 
    	the people in my life.
    
    							Carla
    

    My father likes to tell a story (he likes to tell lots of stories)
    about how I took him aside one day and asked that when he introduced 
    me to people he stop saying "...this is my daugher, Jan" since I was 
    a person of my own, meaning I was Jan 1st and his daughter 2nd.  Every 
    since that day he has always introduced me as "..this is Jan Cordes"
    and added "my daughter" if any clarification was needed.
    
    I don't really remember doing this.  I guess it occurred some time
    around my senior year of high school.  But, since he tells the story
    to people I have to remember to practice what I've asked others
    to practice.  I always try to refer to a person by their name and
    add my friend, sister, father, etc. for clarification when necessary.
                               
    Jan

That story about you reminding your father that you are "Jan" and then
his daughter recollects me something that happened way back in college.

I was at a party with a woman named Kris, and we had had a romantic
relationship and had decided awhile previously to be just friends and
not lovers anymore.

So at this one particular party, after I had introduced Kris to someone,
she pulled me aside and said:

	"Will you PLEASE stop introducing me as 'your friend Kris' ?

	Just say 'this is Kris'.  "


I guess subconciously, I was emphasizing that we're just friends.  Perhaps she
felt that by saying "my friend Kris", I was repeatedly leaving a sentence
unfinished, something like "...who used to be my lover but we're not any
more", which obviously wouldn't be an appropriate thing to say to someone
I'm merely introducing her to at a party !

At the time, when she pointed out her annoyance, I was a bit embarrassed.

/Eric

    
    Re using names.
    
    Being blessed and/or cursed with numerous relatives, I only ever
    use their names when talking about them to somebody who has been
    introduced to them.
    
    But then I was raised to only use a person's name when speaking to 
    them after one had been properly introduced. A name is a personal
    thing, and it is a possesion, not to be bandied about lightly by others.
    (Using a name gives you power over the person named in the magical
    sense for example)
    
    On the other hand "my cousin" does not indicate I possess him/her
    but rather is a contra-indicative of "somebody else's cousin". ie the
    possesive nature of the pronoun applies to the relationship, not
    the person: it says "the person related to me through the appropriate 
    degree of kinship to be called a cousin".
                                                                 
    /. Ian .\
    

    I agree with what Ian said about the nature of the "my" qualifier.
    I think people are taking the idea of it indicating possession
    too literally.
    
    --- jerry

    I received a copy of this poem (author unknown) in yesterday's mail.
    It was sent to me by my very vindictive, spiteful, hurtful ex-wife,
    who, it seems to me is hell-bent on disrupting my life and that
    of my fiancee, with whom I presently live.
    
    
    			OFFICIAL POSSLQity
    
    There's nothing that I wouldn't do
    If you would be my POSSLQ. *
    You live with me and I with you,
    And you will be my POSSLQ.
    I'll be your friend and so much more;
    That's what a POSSLQ is for.
    
    And everything we will confess;
    Yes, even to the IRS.
    Someday, on what we both may earn.
    Perhaps we'll file a joint return.
    You'll share my pad, my taxes joint.
    You'll share my life - up to a point!
    And that you'll be so glad to do,
    Because you'll be my POSSLQ.
    
    Come live with me and be my love
    And share the pain and pleasure of
    The blessed continuity:
    Official POSSLQity.
    And I will whisper in your ear
    That word you love so much to hear.
    And "love" will stay forever new
    If you will be my POSSLQ.
    
    The lines above I wrote in jest,
    For now you see, I must confess
    The only thing that might come to you,
    While you keep being my POSSLQ,
    Is not the husband you think you're due,
    It's just my taking advantage of you.
    'Cause you're cheaper than a nightly whore;
    I get free sex, you get no more.
    
    (*POSSLQ - pronounced possell/cue - stands for "Persons Of the Same
    sex Sharing Living Quarters")
    

    I apologize for inaccuracies that may be in the text of the poem.
    Actually, I thought it was "cute" until the last stanza, at which
    time I realized why she mailed it to me, knowing that my fiancee
    would read it too.  The poem was accompanied by a long letter, in
    which she attempted to lay a tremendous guilt trip on me.  
    
    tony	who_wonders_about_her_wellness    

    POSSLQ is Persons of the OPPOSITE Sex Sharing Living Quarters...not
    persons of the same sex....?
    
    -Jody
    

RE: 725.42

>    (*POSSLQ - pronounced possell/cue - stands for "Persons Of
>    the Same sex Sharing Living Quarters")

Funny... I thought it's "Person of Opposite Sex Sharing Living
Quarters"

As to the poem itself: has it occurred to you that the style and 
balance of the final stanza are different? Almost, as if written
by someone else?

-- Ron

    	RE: .42, .44
    
    	> As to the poem itself: has it occurred to you that the style
    	> and balance of the final stanza are different? Almost, as
   	> if written by someone else?
    
    	I noticed that, too.  The cadence was all wrong in the last
    	stanza (not at all the same as the rest of the poem.)
    
    	Obviously, the last stanza was written by someone other than
    	the author of the rest of the poem (and was added sometime later
    	to change the entire tone/intent of the poem.)
    

    re .42:
    
    I'm reasonably sure that the original POSSLQ poem was written by the
    late etymologist, John Ciardi. In any event, it certainly does not
    include the last stanza. It's an amusing poem written shortly after the
    US Census Bureau invented the term.
    
    	Jon

    
    Re last couple

    	And the version I have attributes it to yet another author,
    Charles Curalt, inspired by Robert Browning.  Again, the last
    stanza isn't there.

    	Amy

    Yes, that's it. Charles Curalt. I thought Charles Osgood, cause I can
    hear this voice over the radio and have no face to go with it.
    
    Tamzen

I am pretty sure Osgood is the author of the original.

		Steve

    
    ...and "Come live with me and be my love" was originally by John
    Donne....
         
    Tony, I feel for you being on the end of "hate mail" designed to
    hurt and destroy. Whoever wrote the thing, whatever the style...
    I wouldn't like to receive it.
    Neither would my SO.
    
    'gail
     
    

    
<    ...and "Come live with me and be my love" was originally by John
<    Donne....

      Well no, it's by Christopher Marlowe
      
      Come live with me, and be my love,
      And we will all the pleasures prove
      That valleys, groves, hills and fields,
      Woods, or steepy mountains yields.
      ...
      The shepherds' swains shall dance and sing
      For thy delight each May morning.
      If these delights thy mind may move
      Then live with me, and be my love.
      
      With a rebuttal written by Sir Walter Ralegh

      If all the world and love were young,
      And truth in every shepherd's tongue,
      These pretty pleasures might me move
      To live with thee and be thy love
      ...
      But could youth last, and love still breed,
      Had joys no date,nor age no need,
      Then these delights my mind might move
      To live with thee, and be thy love.

    re: a few back
    guess my brain and my fingers weren't in sync.  of course it is
    Persons of the OPPOSITE sex.
    
    tony	who_has_made_worse_mistakes
    

    
    or...lover?
    why not....
    	"this is my lover"...?
    
   

    "Hey Mom, I'd like you to meet my lover."
    
    
    

    
    
    Well...I don't know about your Mom...but mine would
    most likely say...
    
    "Glad to meet you."
    

    I REFER TO MY LIVE IN PARTNER AS GIT OR GIT FACE.
    
    A COLLEGUE OF MINE USES DEFACTO.   HE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT IT MEANS
    BUT THINKS IT SOUNDS GOOD. 
                                                

    I usually refer to "that special one" by name.
    
    When our living together is important to the context, "my roommate"
    seems to work OK.  "Inamorata" is kinda nice.
    
    A VERY old-fashioned way to refer to half of a gay couple is "his/her
    Special Friend".  But I've only heard old-fashioned gays themselves
    say "my Friend" (pronouncing the capital letter).
    
    I referred to my ex's mother as my "mother-in-common-law", which she
    always liked.