Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    
    This is a real tough issue.  My boyfriend and I had been living
    together for a year when I found out he had cheated on me.  At first
    I was hurt and I felt betrayed.  Then I got angry.  After much soul
    searching and alot of discussion as to his reasons for cheating
    I had to ask myself if I really wanted to stay in the relationship
    or end it then and there.  The real question was was his mistake
    worth destroying a relationship that was very important to the both
    of us?  
    
    There was no question in my mind that he still loved me, and I knew
    that I still loved him.  But could I ever trust him again?  
    I decided to stay and we worked on the problem together which helped
    us both understand why he had done what he had.  Today we are still
    together and our relationship couldn't be stronger.  We are great
    friends as well as lovers.  I think our friendship was the deciding
    factor in keeping us together.  And yes I do trust him again, but
    it took me quite a while to do that.  I will never however trust
    him implicitly again, but I doubt I will ever again trust anyone
    implicitly.  I think the thing that really hurt was the fact that
    he was the first guy who I ever made love with so he holds a very
    special place in my heart.  My image of falling in love and being
    commited to one person was shattered.  But I realize that that
    image was just that, an image not reality.
    
    Michele

    
    Perhaps not cheating can be detrimental too.
    
    I'm one of the contributors to the "sex with others while married"
    note.
    
    I am separated, after having been married for over two years.
    
    With various problems arising in our marriage, I had this desire
    to have sexual relationships with other women (whether this was a
    problem itself or the resultant effect of other problems is not clear).
    However, I never actually did it.  I would discuss it with my wife, as
    difficult as discussing such things can be.
    
    As painful as it was to her, when our marriage was becoming more
    and more difficult, she was finally saying "go do what you need to
    do", meaning that if I feel so attracted to other women, then go
    pursue them.
    
    Well, in my case, I couldn't just do that.  Now we're separated
    (since last Sept.) and I'm slowly learning how to be single again.
    
    But sometimes I wonder.  What if I had just had an affair.  Perhaps
    it could have resulted in some sort of blowup followed by
    heart-to-heart talk leading to saved marriage.
    
    Instead, though, I just didn't feel right doing it, even though
    I had a kind of "permission".  It was a strange combination of
    not getting on well with my wife combined with being so concerned
    of her feelings as to not be able to do it.
    
    I guess it's just that I hear these stories time and time again of
    relationships and marriages that almost ended when one partner
    cheated, but then they had a talk and made up and became "closer
    than ever".  I just never went that far...
    
    /Eric

    I don't think it's worth the pain.  You not only have to think of
    the pain you can inflick on your "steady" partner but the possiblity
    of transmitting diseases.  What's more important a long term
    relationship or a night or two of pleasure?  Having been hurt by
    cheating, I say how much do you "love and respect" your other half?
    

    Cheating is devastating..it is a blow to your self esteem your whole
    outlook on yourself and your "SO".  I was in an relationship were
    I was cheated on.   I was to naive to know this and it went for
    months when I finally realized what was going on I wanted to just
    stop living, stop caring and stop loving.  It took me a long time
    to ever feel like I could go into anothert relationship. with the
    help of a very caring and understanding person I learned to love
    and trust again.  It's very shocking to realize that you have given
    %100 of yourself and trusted someone and they just stabbed you in
    the back.
    
    I have no respect for a person that will "sleep with" someone that
    is married or in an realtionship, no matter how "awful" that
    relationship may be.   Nor do I have any respect for the person
    that is married or in a relationship that is out persuing other
    avenues.
    
    Sleeping with someone for one night or a few weeks, what does it
    prove?  Maybe that your still desirable to the opposite sex?  That
    you still have what it takes?   But can you honestly still "Like"
    yourself in the morning?  Think about the fact that everytime you
    sleep with someone new you are taking oyur life into your hands.
    
    Sorry for rambling...this is a very sensitive subject and not one
    to taken lightly.
    
    Linda
    

>    As painful as it was to her, when our marriage was becoming more
>    and more difficult, she was finally saying "go do what you need to
>    do", meaning that if I feel so attracted to other women, then go
>    pursue them.
    
Sounds like you wore her down with the constant request.  That would be enough
to strain any marriage.  If you asked more than once I can imagine she would
wonder why what she was giving you wasn't enough.

I was cheated on when I was in college.  It was a one night stand type impulse.
At the time, it did not affect me at all.  But then again, I was quite niave at
the time, and didn't have a lot of the 'social conditioning' that a lot of .*
seem to have about how threatening it was, and how betrayed I was, and stabbed
in the back.  Nor did I make the connection that it meant that I was loved less
because of it. 

I simply asked if this was going to be a reoccuring situation, and asked them
what *did* it mean.  I forgave her, and it never was a problem again.

But I can't say that nothing good came out of it.

It is interesting to me that most of the women replying are assuming that the
'cheating' is going to be a one night stand, or at least a short duration. I
would have thought that a much stronger fear is the fear of being left all
together.

I'm convinced that a good number of times that this issue is mere lip service
with hidden agendas/motive by both parties.  One person wants to be "the one and
only", and are threatened by anything else.  The other person says 'yeah,
alright' to get what they want.  Then *IT* happens, and everyone looks
surprised.  Anyone looking past the end of their nose could see it coming.

Why does it seem to me like surprise of the one being 'cheated on' looks like
the look of surprise on a blackmailer being told that the jig is up? 

Either you love one another and don't want anyone else or you don't.  No
artificial promises are going to help.

Does infidelity happen more when we are young and inexperienced, or old and
cynical and jaded?  I've had a lot of experience at being left, and it doesn't
matter any more.  Either it will work, or it won't, and there's no use in
wasting time feeling hurt about it. 

Jim.

         Wow...
         
         I almost sent this answer in anonymously...I am rather
         terrified to write this...but I decided that to be
         taken seriously, I would have to be willing to "own"
         my opinion...and I *do* want to be taken seriously.
         
         I am over-whelmed with the responses that all are
         variations on a theme....that "cheatin" is bad...
         evil...verboten...ah....all those and more.
         
         I agree that "cheating" is bad....but I never agreed
         not to cheat.  In fact I stated that I ws not willing
         to make that promise and would not hold this man
         I love to any such promise either.
         
         
         I find the thought that a single person could or
         would fullfill every single need I harbour over the
         course of my varied and frenzied lifetime to be not
         only ludicrous, but severely unfair to my partner. 
         How could I possibly expect him to be everything
         to my all-the-time?  It is a promise destined to
         be broken.
         
         He does not "own" me....or my body; nor I his. I
         do not question his actions....nor he mine. It never
         occurs to me to ask or even think about asking if
         he has ever slept with another woman...I couldn't
         much care...Sex is not what holds our relationship
         together after all these years...[coming up on 20...]
         
         I regularly send him off alone on business and
         pleasure...as he does me. I would no more check up
         on him then slit my own throat.  He has exsquisite
         tase in women [he married me....grin] nd I trust
         him to chose selectively...*IF HE CHOOSES*...adn
         he feels the same way...It is a topic that we discuss
         frequently and in-depth....just not in detail.
         
         Well....I guess I have had my say....but one last
         thing....The real important point [besides my opinion
         on fidelity in general...]...here is that *neither*
         of us ever *promised* this thing....we were verbal
         in *not* doing so....and [so far....knock on wood]...
         it works....we spend no nights of tears or
         recrimination.
         
         We do giggle a lot about being picked up in bars...
         
         Oh well...wait till I get my shield up [grin]
         
         Melinda

    re: .8  
    
    No need for a shield....I currently feel that same way.  As long
    as no verbal promises were made, I don't consider it cheating. 
    Of course if there is an implied commitment that's a tougher 
    subject.   
    
    	The Reason I wrote the note in the first place was because
    I fell victem to an unfaithful lover.  I don't like to talk about
    her too much but I can give a quick run of the story.  We were dating
    "steady" for two years,  we decided that marriage was in our future.
    I at the time didn't believe in pre-marital sex but, figured that
    we were going to get married in the future anyway, so I compromised
    that principle.  I found out two years after the engagement that
    she was unfaithful with several of my friends.  Two of which were one 
    night stands, and Two of which were on going afairs.  
    
    	I found out a year ago, and have just got over most of the hurt.
    I was just wondering how others took the same thing.  The initial
    shock didn't wear off until about 5 Mos. later.   The pain hit then
    like a steam roller.  I felt betrayed, insignifigant, useless, and
    like an animal.  My self esteem was reduced to almost nothing. 
    
    	After regaining the self-esteem, I started other relationships.
    The only problem was I shielded myself, because I couldn't trust
    anyone.  That eventually faded.
    
    	Now It doesn't bother me anymore.  Except of some occasions.
     For example,  I recently met a young lady who I was very much
    attracted to while I was engaged.  I approached her, and found out
    that she was attracted to me also, the only catch was now she had
    a SO now and was no longer "available".  This missed oppertunity
    caused a great feeling of in justice, and anger towards my Ex.
    
    Anybody else feel this way?  If you don't want to talk about it
    to in here feel free to write me.  I thought this note might
    help someone in a bad situation, or maybe even prevent a bad situation
    from occuring.
    
    
    Bill

    To me, the issue isn't so much one of dealing with the
    infidelity itself, but one of loss of trust and respect.
    I have strong "old-fashioned" values that fidelity is a very
    important factor in any relationship where "monogamy" was
    the implicit agreement.  
    
    In order to carry off an affair, lies, deceit, etc. has to occur.
    Once discovered, this causes distrust and to me, a loss of respect
    towards the "offender".  (honesty is another one of my "old-fashioned"
    values)
    
    In my opinion, once trust and respect are jeopardized, the relationship
    has no where to go but downhill.  Cheating is a symptom of
    unfulfillmentand unhappiness with the primary relationship and cannot
    add to that relationship in any positive way.
    
    Helaine

    "Cheating" is not always a "symptom of unfulfillment".  In my case,
    She admitted that I fulfilled "too Much", she felt that she was
    undeserving of that fulfillment.  In this instance, Cheating is
    a symptom of low self esteem.
    
    Bill

"I recently met a young lady who I was very much attracted to while I was
engaged.  I approached her, and found out that she was attracted to me also, the
only catch was now she had a SO now and was no longer "available".  This missed
oppertunity caused a great feeling of in justice, and anger towards my Ex."

I've had that feeling a lot of times when I meet an interesting woman while I am
unavailable, and can't in good conscious persue a relationship with them, and
then end up getting dumped somewhere down the line.  Makes me feel like all
being faithfull does for ya is make yourself miss out on good opportunities. 

RE: Honesty

In my mind, Honesty, respect, and trust are the important factors of the
situation.  Those can't be compromised.  I'm sure that if I were ever
unfaithfull, I'd have to own up to it.  However, I've also been tricked into
situations that I didn't like because my SO equated other things to 'Honest,
respect, and trust'.  'How can you love/respect/trust me if you won't do XYZ?' 

Jim.

    I agree.  What I meant by telling that story was I still get reminded
    of what happened between my Ex and I, and that brings the feelings
    of hurt back.  I also think that If I wasn't faithfull maybe things
    would have worked out for that young lady and me.  I'm not regretting
    my desision to stay faithfull, because I know I wouldn't have been able
    to stand the guilt.
    
    Is there ever going to be a time when you won't be reminded?
    
    Bill

    I have a friend with a very low self-esteem. She hates the way she
    looks and thinks she's stupid. At one point in her life she was
    physically and verbally abused by her alcoholic husband. She was
    called names that sailors wouldn't use. She went to PTA meetings
    with bruises all over her body. She told me once,"At least he doesn't
    fool around on me." Can you believe it? Talk about priorities or
    lack there of. 
    
    Kate
    

    
    
    .13
    
    "Is there ever going to be a time when you won't be reminded?"
    
    And, what about if your so got pregnant?
    
    	Talk about a reminder!
    

    I thought about that...
    
    The thing that really scared me what happens if it wasn't mine,
    and she never told me.  I would have believed her....
    
    Bill

    
    Regarding "missed opportunties"...Isn't is always the way when you are
    going out with someone and there are a few opportunities out there
    and when you break up with them, the opportunities are nowhere to be
    found?  It seems that way to me.
    
    But, if you do go for those "opportunities" while you're married or
    going steady, think about your relationship and how it could possibly
    crumble and the person you planned on spending the rest of your life
    with is gone...
    Now that's what I call a "missed opportunity"
    
    I'm getting married at the end of next year to a person who I plan
    on speding the rest of my life with.  He means a great deal to me.
    If he does cheat on me though (sorry for being pesimistic), it's
    his loss.
     
    
    time heals all wounds....I'm still waiting for mine to heal... 
               
    
    cj

    I spent 30 years in a marriage (death ended it) that had many
    "missed opportunities" perhaps, for my husband who traveled
    and worked among many attractive and nice women, while I
    generally stayed home and raised 4 children and rarely saw
    a male that I wasn't paying so much an hour to fix something
    that was broken (*not me*), or delivering milk, mail or oil.
    
    Let me tell you what I think some of those "missed opportunities"
    were from another standpoint.  When a person is unfaithful, they
    miss the opportunity of emotionally hurting another quite badly.
    They miss the opportunity of destroying a person's faith in them,
    and they miss the opportunity of always being trusted once they
    have taken that "missed opportunity" with someone else.
    
    If there are children involved, there is the missed opportunity
    if it is discovered by them, of creating problems which can be
    carried by them into their own male/female relationships.
    
    I could go on, but won't.  I have no idea if it was hard or
    not for my husband to pass up those "missed opportunities" but
    I know that he did, and because he did, it has made all the
    difference in the memories I have of our long and happy marriage.
    
    M
    

"If there are children involved, there is the missed opportunity if it is
discovered by them, of creating problems which can be carried by them into their
own male/female relationships."

I didn't quite follow what you said...  all those "miss the opportunity"'s
stuck in there made it hard for me to understand.

What effects are you saying that it would have on the children?  Don't you
think that it depends on how it is presented to them?  I would imagine that
it would be quite easy for an intelligent adult to keep their sex life private.

Jim.

    Sorry about that.  
    
    I was thinking of a particular instance in the life of a friend
    of mine when we were around 15 yrs old.  She happened to go
    with some friends to Atlanta one evening, and on entering a
    small restaurant, saw her father with a young woman.  His 
    frequent trips to the "big city on business" were explained
    to her by that sighting.  
    
    She has never managed to stay married (married 2 times) and
    can't seem to really believe that any man will love her--and
    only her--or will stay faithful.  I believe it stems from that
    broken trust with and in her father.  
    
    Sorry again that I made it confusing for you.  I seem to have 
    gotten carried away with my own rhetoric.
    
    M  
    
    

"She happened to go with some friends to Atlanta one evening, and on entering a
small restaurant, saw her father with a young woman."

If that was all there was to the incident, that she is making a whalefull of
assumptions.

Jim. 

    ... interesting topic...
    
    A couple of thoughts...
    
    First, what's "cheating?"  Some seem to think it is only the breaking
    of an explicit promise, some that an emotional involvement beyond
    the merely physical makes a difference.
    
    I guess I'm coming to conclude that there are NO guarantees... that
    promises or words or good intentions make no difference.  I could
    be with a woman who adores me absolutely and who has no intention
    of ever "cheating," and who tomorrow meets the "love of her life."
    If I truly care for her... what then.
    
    We all want it all in some place inside of ourselves, regardless
    of what we say about it or think we believe... we want perfect loyalty,
    undying love and commitment, and freedom for ourselves.  Doesn't
    mean we will all act on our baser impulses... but if we don't tell
    the truth about it, we might as well cash it in right now cuz we're
    kidding ourselves.                                         
    
    [Now I'll show my age...]  Back in the 60's when everyone was doing
    the "open marriage" thing... and justifying some pretty hurtful
    behaviors in the name of freedom and openness and honesty, I began
    to think that some of what was going on was just another way of
    bludgeoning one's partner with honesty about who you had been to
    bed with lately... part of the dominance game that I know I have
    played in relationships and see others playing.
    
    I guess I think that a relationship can recover from "cheating,"
    not always easily, but they can... and I've been on both sides of
    this one.  Personally, I've come to prefer fidelity... it's more
    *self*respectful (ref. .4)... and there are still no guarantees.
    
    Promises make me leary... seems there must be something to worry
    about if there has to be a promise about it...
    
    I think the important thing for me, regarding any behavior that
    I find troubling in myself or someone I care about, is to begin
    to understand why it happens, what I and or the other want to do
    about it if anything, and how to do that... and if there is a broken
    commitment, to address whether the commitment needs to be rebuilt,
    renewed, recontracted, or abandoned... rather than to spend any
    energy fussing about whether the even should or shouldn't have
    happened.
    
    Now I'm a long way from perfect... and I don't always do that well,
    but it is my goal.
    
    Cheating can be compulsive, a matter of habit, a reaction to a
    situation... or maybe not cheating at all... if one's frame includes
    the possibility that a loved one might stray and that does not
    necessarily end or impair her love for me.  There aren't any rules
    and there's no way of telling without dealing with a real instance
    and my real feelings about it.  
    
    Will I be hurt -- probably... can I recover -- most likely... will
    the relationship survive -- if we want it to... will it happen again
    -- who knows???  Will I want to talk about it and understand it
    -- you bet your bippy....
    
    ... I guess that's more than a couple of thoughts...
    
    ... a couple last ones...
    
    I know for certain I don't "own" exclusive rights to my partner's
    body or being (I'm not mated at the moment, but when I most recently
    was I came to this conclusion in its present form)... she does...
    and if I am unwilling to have that be so... well, tough... she owns
    herself anyway and the only choice I have is whether I want to be
    with her and enjoy her as she is without claims.  Commitment...
    yes... I can make that for myself... even ask it of her... and she
    can, if she chooses, offer it or give it... and take it away.
    
    Last (re. .15 & .16) -- there have been societies where paternity
    (i.e. how to make a baby) was unknown, and husbands who returned
    from year long journeys to meet the one month old babies that their
    wives presented them with accepted those children quite completely
    as their own....  Perhaps it is in the mind and culture more than
    anything....  Incidently, such cultures were usually matriarchal.
    
    R.
    

    I thought that's what chastity belts were for?
    
    --L

RE:.22

Eloquently put...I can but applaud your position and the grace with
which you stated it.

Bravo!

Melinda

    Bill, 
       The effects of the person who is faithful, can be very, very
    devistating.  I have not read all the replys to this note yet,
    but I can put myself in the faithful persons shoes.  It is a feeling
    of betrayal, and humiliation. The person who is betrayed thinks
    "what quality does the other person have that I dont?"
      
                                        Lynne S.

"The person who is betrayed thinks "what quality does the other person have that
I dont?""

I'm sure this is a common reaction, but there's a lot of assumptions made
here... it depends on the reason for cheating...  there may be nothing that
the other person has that you don't have.  There may be a dozen things that
you have that the other person doesn't have...

I can't help feeling that this feeling of betrayal is based on basing the value
we place on ourselves too much on the actions of others.  Really, my self worth
has little or nothing to do with other people's thoughts or actions. My value is
based on what I do and think, on my qualities.  I know when I'm right and I'm
wrong, and when other people are right and wrong. 

Basing our own value on other people''s thoughts/action is like saying that
if a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it, it doesn't make any noise.

Jim.

    FLAME ON simmer
    
    Jim,
    
    I felt betrayed and devestated by what happened to me.  I find myself
    very independant from others actions.  You see, she wasn't just
    another person.  She was someone I loved. I let her into my heart,
    and made her a part of me.  She told me she wanted it that way.
    I opened up and gave the most precious things I could give to her
    (my feelings) and she threw them away.  I'm sorry, I just don't
    see how you can say,  I base my self worth on her actions.  No way,
    it just hurts like hell to give something that means so much to
    you and have it thrown in your face.   Love is more than just hearts
    on Valentine's day.....
    
    
    Flame off.
    
    Bill

    What a lot of people seem to be missing is that "cheating" is
    a symptom, not a disease in itself.  Cheating doesn't happen in
    healthy relationships.  Unfortunately, the partner who decides to
    "cheat" has, in effect, chosen to abandon the relationship instead
    of facing the problems and trying to work them out.  You're then
    left with the "faithful" partner trying to do the job of two
    in keeping the relationship together, and that just doesn't work -
    it's like riding a see-saw by yourself, and THAT'S what really hurts.
    
    Some people will say "it was just a fling, it won't happen again".
    But it WILL happen again, and again and again, unless the illness
    in the relationship itself is healed.  But it takes a commitment of
    BOTH partners to make that happen, and more often than not, the
    one who has strayed has already made their choice, and that is to
    throw away what they have built over time.  It is the cruelest form
    of rejection.
    
    					Steve

RE: -.1

>    ... "cheating" is
>    a symptom, not a disease in itself.  Cheating doesn't happen in
>    healthy relationships.

This is one more generalization that sounds profound as hell, until
one looks closer and discovers it means beans. Cheating does not
occur in healthy relationships, if you choose to define a healthy
relationship as one in which cheating has not occurred. 

What is probably true, is that people in healthy relationships are
not out looking to cheat. However, here are two stories. both are
true. Both happened to people that are close to me. Both concern a
'healthy' marriage. 

In one case, this fellow went on a business trip in a group. He came
back from a group dinner and happened to be the last one with this
young lady in the hotel corridor, because they had adjoining rooms.
Both had been drinking. They chatted by the door; she invited him
in. One thing led to another, and another... 

BTW, the next morning the guy was devastated. He never told his wife
and swears that's the only secret he ever kept from her. 

Story number two: this fellow, who is very happily married, has
developed a friendship with a member of the opposite sex. Both are
married and in love with their respective husband/wife. Both have a
'healthy relationship'. Neither have any marital problems. 

Before fully realizing what has happened, both developed a searing
attraction to the other. Both know they physically want each other
very much. NOW they have a problem. They haven't cheated yet, but
who knows what will happen tomorrow? 

Cheating does not occur in healthy relationships? Give me a break.

-- Ron

Bill...  If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it...

"You see, she wasn't just another person.  She was someone I loved. I let her
into my heart, and made her a part of me. ... I opened up and gave the most
precious things I could give to her (my feelings) and she threw them away."

I'm trying to understand what you're saying, but I don't quite have it... Is
"she threw them away" a supposition on your part, or did she say that?  I can't
imagine myself having that feeling from someone sexually cheating on me.  What I
would get that feeling from is if someone left me to be with another. 

Now, true, you can't have the ultimate in commitment to more then one person...
But you can have a fullfilling level of commitment with more then one person.
What is it that people who 'need' monogamy need that can't involve more then one
person? 

Hey, I'm just trying to understand what this is all about.  To me the big deal
is does she want to be with me or with someone else?  If she wants to be with
someone else, why should I get upset over it?  Getting upset won't help; the
point is moot. 

Jim.

    Jim,
      If you really and truly love someone with all of your heart, and
    they "pull the wool over your eyes", the effect is devistating to
    the person that is the faithful one.  I mean, when you invest time,
    trust, and faithfulness in a relationship, then you get double crossed
    by that person, it is a feeling of total rejection....the feeling
    is one of the worse feelings anyone can face......
    
                                                Lynne S.

    Jim,
    
    	I used to feel the same way you do, until I experianced it myself.
    I hope you never become as fortunate as I was to learn how it feels...
    
    Bill

I don't know Bill...  I've had that feeling...  when someone who I "really and
truly loved" left me...  but not on the occasion of sexual infidelity... 

And even when they left me, I had to accept that they had a right to run their
life the way they saw fit... It left me holding the bag, but hey, I guess that's
life...  I guess I hold the right of a person to run their own life higher then
any promises they may choose to break, or be unable to keep.

I know what commitment means, that a person will always be especially important
to you. (at least until they decide to leave. but then they are still important
to me even then, and that makes finding a new relationship hard) 

I know what making a commitment to stay with, love and cherish someone means. 

I understand that sexual infidelity can weaken the relationship with your SO,
and strengthen the other relationship, and that you can't split yourself and
give your all to more then one person (if the relationships are asymmetrical).

I can be sexually faithful, but I can't be socially faithful, (ie not want to
see other people), and enjoying someone's company socially often leads to me
wanting to know them intimately. (not 'mere' sex so bug off morals committee!)
And I don't understand/feel/have the gut reaction to the dichotomy between
knowing someone socially and knowing them intimately that most people seem to
have.

If I didn't know better, I'd think that sex was not important to me... since it
didn't matter if someone I loved had sex with someone else.  But sex is
definitely important to me... 

I think that I just don't equate 'sex with someone else' with 'you're leaving
me'.  All the being left that I've experienced has not been connected with sex.

...

All this is quite a bit of intellectualizing...  And it's quite a bit different
to intellectually make a commitment or promise, from being in a situation where
you could be unfaithfull, being "in lust" shall we say? :->. 

One person speaking about social and sexual fidelity spoke of it as "closing
doors" in your life, closing yourself off to some of the possibilities in life.
There's *no way* that I can "close doors" and lock the doors between myself and
the rest of life!  There's still SO MUCH out there for me to see/do/know/
experience!  In that respect, I am still child-like. 

Jim.

    Jim,
    
    I have had other people that I loved leave me also.  I realized
    that these people (like my ex-fiance) have a right to run their
    own life the way they want to.  Let me tell you that the two
    experiances are absolutlely different.   I didn't mind the Sex
    so much.  I wouldn't have minded it too much if she only talked
    with me first.  What I did mind was the LIES!  
    
    	I understand that people have desires and lusts for others.
    I fell victem to those same desires.  About a year before I found
    out about my ex's escapades, and after about a year of her being
    unfaithful (without my knowing.) I became interested in a very close
    friend.  I had these feelings and I knew that it was going to effect
    Chris (my Ex.).  I confronted her and told her about the feelings
    I had for the other girl.  She agreed that I should ask this girl
    out and get to know her better.  She understood that we were together
    for two and a half years and that I was curious about other women.
    Well the other woman and I went out a couple times,  but she realized
    that I loved Chris and that she didn't want to come between us.
    I am best friends with this woman today.
    
    	On the other hand I have recieved nothing but pain and suffering
    from the LIES that were incorporated in my ex's Infidelity.  I have
    lost trust in her and I doubt almost everything that anyone says.
    Trusting again will be extreamly hard.  I lost friends.  All the
    friends that she slept with felt so overwhelmed by guilt that they
    would no longer call me or would shy away from me when I was around.
    Other Friends tried to save my feelings by not telling me when they
    found out.  I can't blame them for that, but it still hurts.  I
    had to resort to trikery to get the full story out.  I was forced
    to move out of my Dorm room because of how everyone percieved me
    after everything came out ( I was the last to know.  She would be
    having sex down the hall from me while I was sitting there waiting
    for her to come over to visit.)  Only a handful of true friends
    remained.  I was living a complete lie.  If she came to me from
    the begining and said "Bill,  I want to see other men. "  Then I
    would  have been spared all the hurt of the Lies.  I'm confident
    enough in myself not to feel any less of a person because someone
    I love wants to have sex with someone else.  Sex, itself, is completely 
    irrelivent to the effects of infidelity of my past relationship.
    
    
    Bill
    
    (P.S.  I have told more than enough of my personel life on this
    subject,   I wrote this note to find how others felt when they
    discovered a mates infidelity.  I didn't expect to justify my feelings
    on this subject.  This is very simular to having a terminal disease,
    is such that you can't truely know how it feels until it happens
    to you.)

    I can understand that sex isn't everything.  Let me tell you what
    happened to a few friends of mine.
    
    She was married, and her best friend of 18 years lived with them.
    Everyone appeared to be happy.  She had an affair with a married man.
    The wife knew, and sexual fidelity didn't matter much to her, so long
    as she wasn't abandoned.  My friend's husband and best friend knew, and
    her husband felt about the same way.  Then, after a few months, my
    friend and her new lover declared monogamy, that they wanted to live
    together, alone, without her best friend, his friend that had been
    living with them for awhile.  My friend's husband, her lovers' wife,
    his friend who will now have to find a new place to live in the near
    future, and her best friend are all very hurt now, and there are two
    divorces pending as a result.  In this case, it wasn't the sexual
    infidelity that caused any problem, but the declaration of monogamy.
    The two people who were not married, yet hurt anyway, are suddenly
    faced with life without their long-term support systems, a sudden need
    to find a new home, and generally feel betrayed by their friends.  How
    did the two of them deciding to become monogamous help anything for
    anyone, including themselves? 
    
    Elizabeth

    The Monogamy didn't hurt 4 the infidelity finally did.   Your friend
    declared Monogamy with someone apart from her husband.  That is
    a gross example of infidelity.  The Husband couldn't stand the thought
    that she could be monogomous with some one apart from him.  Can
    you blame him?  IMHO that was a real poor relationship all around.
    
    ( I did get kinda lost even though I read your note several times,
    so if I have the wrong story please correct me.)

    
    Bill