Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    I too, have suffered from the "you'd make a great
    lover,boyfriend,husband routine". It's always followed by
    "but not for me". I am not sure what drives women to be
    complimentary about a guy and at the same time show no interest
    in him.
    
    My philosphy in the past of being a giving person has only generated
    a lot of broken relationships. Someone recently told me that takers
    have radar for givers. I have tried to sharpen up my radar so I
    can avoid the takers and find a true giver/sharer. So far singles
    notesfile has generated a number of meetings, none of which have
    yielded the desired results - it has widened my scope of friends
    but not the elusive special one.

    I am not ready to give up and will keep trying. 
    
    as mentioned by 44.0 the aforementioned words do get to be quite
    trying.
    
    al
    

re: 44.1

I felt some of the frustration you do.  I had just ended a very painful
relationship (ah, college romance) and was feeling the only way I would ever
find someone who could truly love me somehow I had to change.  I reached this
conclusion because my style/personality/etc. seemed to get in the way over the
long term. 

As it sometimes seems to happen, at the doorstep of despair I met a woman who 
loved me just the way I was.  I spent a lot of time pinching myself, making
sure that what appeared to be was indeed true.

Sunday is our eleventh anniversary.  We've grown even closer together and have
two great kids.  I feel very fortunate that Wendy came along before I gave up
on myself.  My message is that I think you're right when you say you're not
going to give up. Don't lose heart or give up believing in yourself.

There's an old saying: "When the pupil is ready, the teacher appears."  I think
that is at least sometimes true in relationships too.

Mark

    
    This *does* happen to women. I think it touches all humans
    once or twice. I've received all types of complements and they 
    don't really  carry much weight with me. What I think is missing
    is the special feeling of sincerity that should exist behind the
    words.
    
    But, it almost sounds like the *obligations* here are the ugly part.
    
    Why is it (or is it really) nessesary to have obligations enter
    into a relationship?
    
    Don't feel alone ...(if all else fails... LOVE yourself!)
    
    Sue
    
    PS:"the average insect found in soup" !    
    
    :-)
    

    
    Re .0, why don't you talk to women over 35?  Do you think our opinions
    don't count anyway?  I know there has to be a cut-off point for
    everything, but as a 36 yr. old woman, not ready for the old-age
    home yet, I sort of take exception.  A woman doesn't automatically
    turn into an old hag after age 35, ya know!
    
    In regard to the rest of your note, I have met tons of interesting
    men who seemed to think I was fine for a buddy (or worse yet as
    a one-night stand - how many men run into women who are only interested
    in them as a piece of you-know-what???)  I met a lot of guys when
    I was younger who told me that I "deserved" to meet the "right"
    man, but assured me that, alas, it wasn't them!!
    
    Fortunately, at the moment, I live with a man who seems to think
    I'm the right one for *now* - forever is a strange concept.
    
    
    Lorna
    

    It's happened to me too.  I think the people who say it consider
    it a "safe" compliment, not understanding how terribly frustrating
    it is for those of us who, for various reasons, don't find ourselves
    attractive to the opposite sex.  I consider this to be on the same
    order of "I love you - like a brother."  AUGH!  Meanwhile we see
    others who DON'T seem to make good husbands/fathers/etc end up in
    satisfying relationships.  Is there a lesson to be learned here?
    
    						Steve

    I too, remember that one.  It had me fooled for years into thinking
    that I wasn't good enough for anyone -- the old great-for-someone-else
    -but-not-for-me.  What used to kill me was that I'd see the same
    women get hooked up with some jerk that would cause them more trouble
    than anything...just never could understand that one.  Anyway, after
    a long time, I came to play the singles game shotgun style -- go
    through as many as you can, until one clicks.  It takes a lot of
    buckshot to bag one bird, but its worth it.  As far as loving
    oneself...that's what works in the meantime...noone has loved themself
    more than me!

    .7
    	Whew! Bob if your ever used those lines with me I'd
    see right through them in a second. ( the ones who hear them
    all the time learn to recognize them instantly)
    
    Isn't that a real indirect approach? I think the person
    would just like it if you were honest. ANd said "I really
    don't think we are meant for each other " Or what ever the
    truth is.
    
    Sneak back !!! Ick icK icky icky icky!!!!!!!!
    
    
    Sue

Here's another vote for open and honest.  We get all mucked up with lines,
strategies, tricks and games.  Often times we tell ourselves that these
back-door ploys are to protect the other person, but my experience is that 
they're almost always to protect ourselves.  I applaud Sue (.8) straight
and honest is the best -- well put.

Mark

    
    Re .5, unfortunately, I think the lesson to be learned here is that
    there are a lot of shallow people in the world, especially in regard
    to what qualities they are looking for in a romantic partner.
    
    
    Lorna
    

      In many cases, it may be that the reason a person says that "you'd 
    make a great lover,boyfriend,girlfriend,husband,etc for someone but not
    me" is that they feel "you'd make a great lover,boyfriend,girlfriend,
    husband,etc for someone but not me".

      Not everyone is compatable with everyone else. It is probably more
    the case that if you are a wonderful person, you are compatable with
    a small percentage of the other wonderful people. You can recognize
    the others as wonderful and tell them so but in many cases, a relationship
    would not work.

      In such a case, it would seem to be better to acknowledge the other
    persons good qualities and move on rather than putting you both through
    a lot of unnecessary aggravation.

      George

    one such >compliment< I hear most often is  "Too bad your already married!"
    
    If I'd thought I'd get this many womens interest before I'd gotten
    married I wouldn't have gotten married.. but then if I hadn't gotten
    married I wouldn't have gotten that many womens interest %^)
    
    some kind of catch 22 there somewhere
    
    Sauna_Rat  

    
    I think it is important to note that sometimes we realize that we
    could really ruin a great friendship by taking it any further...
    Sometimes we are just meant to be good friends rather than lovers
    and if you really like that person and recognize that fact than
    why not voice it?  I have some male friends that I would prefer
    to keep just that way.. we get along just fine and just because we
    are of opposite sexes I would not want to make it anything more
    than what we have.. if they were to suggest anything more I would
    have to say the classic line "but you are like my brother!"  sorry
    but in certain circumstances I think it is a valid statement!     
    
    too many good friendships are ruined by trying to assume more into
    it!
    
    ga

    Ok, let's try this scenario...
    
    I meet a wonderful, attractive, vivacious, fun-loving woman who
    complements my personality. We have many common interests, enjoy
    each other's company a great deal, etc., etc., etc. A permanent
    commitment is not undesired. Only one problem. She is a devout
    Catholic, I'm a non-practicing Christian agnostic. If we married
    and had kids, she'd want them brought up Catholic, obviously; I
    would not. She is also bothered by the fact that my personal
    philosophy, according to her beliefs, does not reserve me a place
    in Heaven after death.
    
    So what do we end up with? Hey, you're a great person and would
    make a wonderful spouse, but for someone else, not for me.
    
    I realize that this might seem to be an extreme example, but it's
    not unlikely. The above scenario actually happened to me. It's
    also happened (with another woman) to a friend of mine.
    
    On the other hand, it is frustrating to have someone tell me,
    "You'd make a great husband." At least it was when I was available
    and looking and wondering, "Great! So where are the women for whom
    I would?"
    
    --- jerry

    I think I'd make a distinction between deciding "you're not for
    me" after getting to know each other well, and being told that
    before anything even starts.  It's the latter that would bother
    me more.
    
    In any event, I agree that it is desireable to have good friends
    of the opposite sex, and I am privileged to have several, some of
    several years.  It is an especially pleasurable experience.
    					Steve

    
    re: .4
    
    I talk to plenty of females outside of that range.  Just the recent
    examples happened to fall in that age bracket.
    
    My father's sisters (all over 50) and a whole squad of their daughters
    and granddaughters did it to me this weekend.  Big brother got added
    to the list of possible avocations.  It's enough to make a guy think
    about the Foreign Legion.
                             
    
    *Sigh*
    Dave W.

	Boy does this sound eery or what?  This scenario describes my
    marriage almost exactly (with the exception that I'm actually a
    practicing Unitarian Universalist - but this can sometimes be lumped
    into a broader Christian agnostic belief system depending on the person).
    
	I suppose I'll have to deal with these issues someday, so I might
    as well get a headstart now...

>    If we married
>    and had kids, she'd want them brought up Catholic, obviously; I
>    would not. 

	Not quite so obvious.  As far as schools, you want the best of what's
    available.  While I firmly believe that public schools are fine, some
    public schools far short of the private (including Catholic) schools.

	As far as religion, well, tough subject.  I guess I'm not real sure
    how we plan to handle this either.  Ideally, I'd like to alternate weeks:
    one week everyone goes to the Catholic church, the next week everyone goes
    to the Unitarian church.

        Now if I could just get my wife to stay for the coffee get-together
    after sermon (at the Unitarian church), then I'd be all set (especially
    since this is a major facet of the service).  Anyway, this is going to
    involve alot of give and take from both of us, and I'm sure that when
    (if?) we have kids, that this issue will become more of an issue.

>    She is also bothered by the fact that my personal
>    philosophy, according to her beliefs, does not reserve me a place
>    in Heaven after death.

	This is something that she will have to work out for herself.
    While the current trend is for the Roman Catholic church to be very
    strict about the "old ways", I think you will find a great deal more
    freedom in the American Catholic church teachings (i.e. maybe she
    should look for a different diocese).
    
>    So what do we end up with? Hey, you're a great person and would
>    make a wonderful spouse, but for someone else, not for me.

	Maybe so, but don't rule out Catholic women in your continued
    search.

>    I realize that this might seem to be an extreme example, but it's
>    not unlikely. 

	Obviously not too extreme.

							-davo

    Maybe we can take the subject of religious differences into
    a separate topic?  I'd like to continue that line of thought...
    					Steve

    You might want to also venture over to BAGELS where
    similiar discussions take place.


    Mike The Mod.


Hit the usual keys to get there...

	Sorry, I got a little carried away.  I've been staying up too
    late working on the "Battle of the Languages" in the TLE::LANGUAGES
    notesfile (note # 99.* press KP7 and all that jazz...).

	Anyway, I was just trying to reply to .16, but I forgot to add
    the little "re: .16," on there.  If you want, I'll delete it.

							-davo

    I hadn't really meant to bring up the subject of religion in a
    relationship. It just happened to be the point of contention in
    that relationship. If someone wants to bring it up as a separate
    topic, fine by me.
    
    re:.19
    
    I suppose "obviously" is a very general term in this context, but
    I used it for the reason that it was my understanding, confirmed
    by the woman in my scenario, that the Roman Catholic Church only
    sanctions marriages to non-Catholics on the condition that the
    children be brought up Catholic. It isn't clear to me what censury
    action, if any, they take if that condition isn't met.
    	I should also point out that my idea in regards to the hypo-
    thetical children's religious (I hadn't had school in mind)
    upbringing was that I'd like them to sample a number of different
    denominations to see which had the most to "offer" ("no award"
    being a valid choice as well) on a personal level.
    
    As for the idea that she might find a diocese that had a less
    traditional bent, this was not an option. She didn't really feel
    constricted by these beliefs in the sense that she followed them
    regardless of whether she liked them or not. She held them because
    she believed they were *right*. I wasn't simply interpreting what
    I thought was the case. She told me these things outright in so
    many words.
    
    One final point is that this experience did not "sour" me on
    Catholics as potential SO's. I only brought this up, as I said,
    as an example of how someone *could* "make a good partner, but
    not for me".
    
    --- jerry