Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    Just what I like --- down to Earth sex! :-)
    
    --- jerry

    That was BAD, jerry (chuckle)
    
    :-)
    Dave W.

    Re .0:
    
    Good topic. These kind of subjects are what we need more of here; not
    just a continuation of DIGITAL.NOTE's 111.*. 
    
    I think a person usually decides it's ok to start a new relationship
    as soon as s/he gets over feeling burned from the last one.  If
    you're still feeling vulnerable, then you should wait.
    
    Ofcourse, this descision will also be affected by the degree of your
    attraction to the new person. 
    
    Don

    I don't know that I agree with .3, 
        
.3>    I think a person usually decides it's ok to start a new relationship
.3>    as soon as s/he gets over feeling burned from the last one.  If
.3>    you're still feeling vulnerable, then you should wait.

    Sometimes it can be a help to have a new relationship starting,
    to help repair/heal the damage from the last one (the well-known
    rebound effect).  It can complicate matters a lot, depending on
    the people and situation involved, it could have either positive
    or negative impact.  But it might be a long wait otherwise...
    
    Depends on the type of relationship, too.  If there is a mutual
    agreement that it is for the moment, not trying to force a long-term
    involvement, then I'd say sooner is better.  But then my own belief
    is that any attempt to force a long-term involvement too early is
    bad...

    I know about this from experience: as I was leaving a job some years
    ago I discovered in the course of saying "goodbye" to a friend there
    that her marriage was breaking up.  Being a good friend I wanted
    to help her feel better, and I was confident that there was no risk
    of any emotional entanglement since I was leaving in a month to
    take a new job about 800 miles away.
    
    Result:  we've been married six years now, with our first child due 
    in 2 weeks!
    
    There were some rough times while we both got it sorted out, she had to
    work through a lot of issues and feelings and it took time, I had to be
    patient while she did (including our seperation, her attempt at
    reconciliation and a couple of short-term relationships trying to sort
    out the rebound influence).  Then I had to adjust to the results and to
    the changes in my own life, we got through that and then I almost
    blew it by letting my job overwhelm my perspective (a near miss,
    that!).  
    
    But now, it's worth it - and getting better all the time!

	Don't ever wait because of logical reasoning.  If you do, you
    may miss out on the most important momment of fate your life has
    planned for you!  Remember, life is short, and the mating process is
    even shorter (sorry about the somewhat biological terms here).

	It's very hard to rationalize a relationship (or even plan one),
    although most everyone tries anyway.  If the chemistry is there, you'll
    know it.  Rationalize it later.  I'm still rationalizing my marriage,
    but the chemistry is still there.

						-DAV0

    I don't think it's usually logic that makes us ignore the chemistry.
    It's pure emotion: mainly fear and insecurity.
    
    						Pat

    Yes, and sometimes that fear is justified.  I'm not saying there should
    always be a "waiting period" between relationships, but I do think that
    if you are unclear about why your last relationship "went wrong", it
    might be advisable to spend a little time gaining some perspective so
    that you just don't go on repeating the same mistakes over and over.
    
    Admittedly, there are many situations where this doesn't apply.
    
    Don

    	After every relationship, I've told myself "I need a year to
    myself, no attachments, no relationship." In 4 tries, I only made
    it for 3 months. Now I'm married, and terribly happy that I won't
    have to go through all that again. (I signed in blood, no divorce
    allowed ;-)
    
    	In relation to the discussion, each person has to do what feels
    right. If you find someone to talk to, to be with...neat city. Go
    for it. Life's no fun without someone (at least one...but that's
    at least one other topic) to live it with.
    
    	Ed

Like Bob (.9), I agree that we are better off not "seeking" relationships.  I 
like to think that a good way to approach this is to enjoy your friends, make 
new ones as the opportunities arise, and grow as you interact with them.  
Maybe one of those friendships may evolve into something different, but I think 
that friendship must be there before anything else.

Guess that doesn't leave any room for a "lusty" relationship does it?  Maybe a 
purely physical "relationship" isn't a "real-ationship" in the sense that we 
mean here.

Anyone want to advocate the possibility that a true relationship can develop 
out of an initially physical relationship?

Steve

BTW, Bob, I disagree that a "Platonic" relationship can be defined as a "casual 
friend".  I've had Platonic relationships that were pretty emotionally intense, 
and "casual friend" sounds more like an acquaintance.  And I don't generally 
have intense times with "merely" casual acquaintances.  There has to be a 
deeper bond for that to take place.  Platonic in the sense of "non-sexual", 
Yes.  Casual, No.

    Re .10: 
    >Anyone want to advocate the possibility that a true relationship can
    >develop out of an initially physical relationship? 

    I do! I do!
    
    My current relationship started with heavy doses of mutual lust
    and a passing acquaintance. Very quickly the acquaintance became my
    best friend, and love overpowered the simple lust. This happened
    faster than I could have ever thought possible. It's interesting
    to speculate how things might have been different if we'd had more
    time to become friends first, but it certainly worked well for us
    this way.
    
    Tamzen

    I'll second that (it happened to me too, though the relationship went
    through a few more changes after that).   Guess the problem is defining
    what's meant by a "true" relationship - probably true as "of true
    value"... though an initially physical relationship can have some moral
    worth too. 
    
    To me the term relationship seems kind of value-neutral (though the
    people involved have value, you can have a "good" or a "bad"
    relationship, and things can change over time).   But the idea of
    "developing a relationship" (shorthand for "developing the (moral)
    value of a relationship") can be applied to initially physical
    relationships as to other kinds. 
    
    I think there's a reference to the idea of growing intimacy, discussed
    in another note here.    Intimacy seems to have to do with recognising
    shared ways of thinking, between the intimates... as you do that (which
    takes time), the intimacy grows, the relationship develops, a "true"
    relationship may emerge from an "initially physical" one. 
    
    Anyone any thoughts?

    As a rule, it is necessary to grieve over a relationship.  In the
    case of divorce or death, it usually takes at least a year to work
    through the pain, anger, loneliness and general feelings of
    hopelessness/helplessness.  If it is the case of a broken relationship,
    some definite soul searching is in order since it takes two to either
    make or break a relationship.  Personally speaking, after 2 major
    disastrous relationships, I had the foresight to seek professional
    help (i.e. counseling).  Once I was sure that my head was screwed
    on straight, I could then look for someone who was also "together".
    
    I recall two specific things my therapist once said that I've tried
    to stick with:
    
    1) It is better to like someone first and then love them because
    if the love disappears, at least they're still someone you like;
    whereas, if you only "love" them, when the love is gone, you've
    got nothing left.
    
    2) A general rule of thumb is that you should be verbally intimate
    for at least 3 months before you become physically intimate; in
    that way, you have a far better chance of knowing your partner than
    if you "go for it" early in the relationship.
    
    I have, since that time, met and married a wonderful man.  We both
    made it a point to discuss exactly what we expect from the
    relationship, and each other, and most important, we both agreed
    that no matter how difficult it is, we would ALWAYS make a major
    effort to communicate and work things out.  It has helped us to
    grow closer every day.
    
    -Barb

    I think it is right to get to now someone as a friend but you have got
    to look at it from all sides, there are people that have been hurt
    badly from having a relationship with someone and feel that they need
    someone to help them get over it but others tend to stay single untill
    they are over it.  It is very hard to get over them if you love them a
    lot and it tends to effect every thing you do in one sense, in the way
    that you don't want to do anything or you are very quiet.
    
    I have had that experience and decided to stay single since for the
    simple reason i don't wont to get hurt again.  I am seeing someone at
    the moment but i am unsure and i am not sure weather i want it to
    develope any more than it already has.
    
    We have known each other for 5 days in all, as we met at Reading
    College, on a course which lasts for one year.  After the third week
    of talking we both walked to the station together and he stayed with me
    until my train was about to leave,  and then he went to catch his train
    which was due to leave shortly after mine left.  The following week he
    said that he missed his train and he joked about it and again after
    college had finished we walked to the station together and things
    happened i didn't mind because i was beginning to get fond of him and 
    on the 10/10 we went ice-skating and he was speaking to a friend and i
    got the impression that Dave the young man at college likes me a lot.
    
    Can someone give me some advise on what i should do please......