Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    				Yes
    

    Frankly, no, I am not nor have I yet planned anything towards the
    care of my parents. Presently they are not even close to 60, so
    I expect them to be going strong for the next 25-30 years.
    
    I grew up living with one set of grandparents living on my father's
    property, and the other set living only 4 miles away. Both of my
    parents were the children who lived closest to their parents and so
    they have ended up being the ones responsible for day to day matters.
    
    My father's set of parents died  in 1977 and 1981. My grandfather
    simply died in his sleep one night. My grandmother wasn't in wonderful
    health,but until the last year before her death, she still lived alone
    and cared for herself. Then she moved in with a daughter (who luckily
    did not work and lived only 5 miles away) until her death. 
    
    Frankly one of the reasons I am glad I don't live close to my family
    is that I saw how put upon my parents were (and are, since one set
    of grandparents are still alive). I use the words "put upon", not
    because there is any onerous burden on my parents, but because of
    the hassle they are expected to put up with simply because they
    were the closest. 
    
    Both of my sisters live within 10 miles of my parents and are very
    likely to continue to for the rest of their lives. I love my parents,
    but I confess, I don't think I would do well under those circumstances.
    We would rub too much. Most of what I do is not approved of by my
    parents, I would hate to think of how miserable they would be able to
    make me (and I them) if I had to deal with them on a day to day basis
    now, let alone later in life. Maybe things will change, but currently I
    am willing to provide what support I can, financial and otherwise, but
    I cannot see myself living with and caring for my parents. Frankly I am
    hoping to have my sisters do that. 
                         
    I have the feeling this sounds hard hearted. Maybe it is and maybe
    things will change in the next 20 years, but right now, this is
    how I feel.
    
    Tamzen

    Well my father is very logical so he has made the preparations for
    any future care they made need. I try to do whatever  Ican to help
    them out but they don't usually need much right now.
    
    My grandmothers died two years ago this January. One of them was
    very special to me and she died an excruciating slow death over
    a year and a half. I went down every 6-8 weeks to Baltimore for
    a long weekend to try and help nurse her. It wasn't easy being so
    helpless and watching her slowly die. But I learned more about her
    in that time than I had learned in my lifetime from her. I would
    not trade that experience as painful as it was for anything. I now
    go down there to spend time with my grandfather.

    I don't know if I have answered your question, but don't give up
    on the elderly - they still have a lot to give as long as you let
    them.
    
    al
    

    
      When the time comes I will do my best to care for my parents...
    
      ...but they will never be put in a Nursing Home. 
    
      I used to work in one for two years. I've seen things that would
    make Rambo cry.

    
      I should not have to worry about this situation for quite some
    time.

      PC

    Yes, I and my siblings have given a great deal of thought and
    research into the care of my elderly father.  He has Binswangers
    (sp?) disease which is similar to Alzheimers.  To date, however,
    my Dad shows no desire to leave the 12-room Civil War-era home
    in which we were reared.  Naturally we're concerned because
    if he forgets to take his medicine, the disease takes over and
    his memory fails and he forgets to take his medicine and so
    forth...
    
    There is only so much you can do, however, without treading
    on his privacy.  My oldest sister is now keeper of his legal
    matters by Power of Attorney.  I could relate the various
    incidents where his business and legal affairs were let go
    which necessitated this, but it would fill screens.  
    
    If indeed Dad agrees, we have him on a waiting list at a very
    fine seniors living complex.  The terrific thing about it is
    that he can start with independent living, progress to 
    some nursing care and then to full nursing care all in the
    same complex without having to physically move again.  Because
    of the deteriorative nature of his disease, this looks to be
    ideal...  
    
    My Dad is 78 and has probably three years to live... we
    kids are spread out all over the earth's surface so there
    is no way we can provide home care to him ourselves.  If 
    anyone has any ideas on how to get Dad to move into the
    senior care complex, I'd be most grateful.
    
    Marge
    

    
    Hmmmmm.  I don't have to confront this yet, as both my parents are
    still working, but there is the question of my grandparents.  My
    maternal grandparents are living in an apartment in a housing
    project for the elderly, and they love it.
    
    My paternal grandfather died before I was born.  My grandmother
    lived in the apartment where my father and his siblings were raised
    until the building was sold.  Then she and her sister moved into
    a housing project for the elderly.
    
    That's when it began to get complicated.
    
    First my grandmother developed cancer.
    Then the sister (who was already nearly deaf) lost a leg.
    Then my grandmother was ill for a while.
    
    At this point, it became obvious that their ability to care for
    themselves was rapidly ebbing away, so we made arrangements to have
    them brought to a nursing home, but the decision was left up to
    them, and they didn't want to go.
    
    Now, my grandmother is dead, and her sister has no one at all. 
    One of my aunts is currently taking care of her.
                                                   
    re: .5
    
    Hmmmmm.  I don't envy you the task.  I remember what we went through
    with my grandmother, and it was enough to get my aunt (who has the
    patience of a saint) to let go with a few choice phrases.  If you
    really think this place would benefit him, I would say try telling him
    about all the things he wouldn't have to worry about any more if he
    moved. Twelve rooms of house must be quite a handful for a 78 year old
    man.  It's like selling anything else.
    
    DFW

    Can't say that I have considered this situation. First off, my parents
    are only 43 so I sort of expect that they will live another 30 or
    40 years. My father has also planned ahead for his "autumn" years.
    
    My dad did the plan ahead tactic because of the hassle he had when
    his parents died. My grandparents died about 2 months apart in 1983.
    Needless to say, it was pretty devastating. But my father learned
    from the lackings that my grandfather had and he made sure that
    none of us would have to deal with a similar situation.
    
    I don't know what my mother's parents have done. My mother's mother
    died in May. My grandfather took care of everything so I guess there
    was no problem there. I have no idea of what is going to happen
    when my last remaining grandfather dies. Hopefully, that won't be
    a few years.
    
    Mike

RE: .4

  > When the time comes I will do my best to care for my parents...
    
  > ...but they will never be put in a Nursing Home. 
    
    I agree that nursing homes aren't an acceptable solution.  But in
    some cases they are the ONLY solution.
    
    What do you know about Altzheimer's Disease?  I have become somewhat
    knowledgable on the disease since my father started showing symptoms
    about 6 years ago.  It starts out appearing like a bad memory. 
    My mother would ask Daddy to pick up milk on the way home and he
    would forget.  Etc.  Irritating, but no big deal.
    
    The disease advances verrrrry slowly.  Many people don't realize
    it's a fatal disease because it can take 20 years to kill its victim.
    Daddy gradually got to the point where his memory was endangering
    him.  He'd get in the car and drive downtown in the small town where
    he had lived all his life, get out of the car and start walking
    and forget where he was or how to find the car.  The police picked
    him up and took him home numerous times.
    
    The next identifiable stage is a total inability to communicate. The
    victim makes no sense whatsoever.  You ask him how he feels and he will
    answer "Look at the prettylight" or some such thing. He doesn't
    understand those around him, and can't make them understand him.  We
    have found Daddy on several occasions knawing on a frozen raw chicken
    breast he found in the freezer.  He didn't know the difference between
    that and the carton of ice cream that was there. 
    
    Remember that all this time the victim is in perfect physical
    condition.  Next comes refusal to perform normal functions (like
    eating and bathing), and in many cases violence against family members
    who try to coax the patient to do those things.  And incontinence.
    The victim literally FORGETS about going to the bathroom.
    
    Mother died in 1982, before the symptoms got really bad.  That left
    us three kids to figure out what to do.  Have you ever tried to
    find someone to stay with a patient whose mental faculties are totally
    gone?  Forget the money issue for a moment -- just try and convince
    someone to take care of a patient who is sometimes physically violent
    and who has to be begged, coaxed, and pleaded with just to get him
    to eat.  Also incontinent.  Cannot utter a meaningful sentence,
    but gets very frustrated that you don't understand the jibberish
    he's saying, and even sometimes gets MAD (and physically violent)
    that you don't understand.
    
    Now, suppose you did find someone to take care of this patient. I
    remember the private duty nurses we had when Mother was dying of
    cancer.  My father had provided well for himself and my mother, but the
    cost of that would have been totally prohibitive over a long haul, even
    for someone who had a very nice retirement nest egg put away.  There
    would have been NO WAY I could have afforded it.  No matter how I
    scrimped and saved, I couldn't have done it. 

    I experienced a 3-year bout with cancer that finally killed my Mother.
    But I can honestly say that cancer is a kind disease compared to
    Altzheimer's. 
    
    Yes, putting Daddy in a nursing home was probably the hardest decision
    anyone in my family has ever been faced with.  But there simply
    were no other alternatives.  None.
    
    							Pat
    

    
       I'm sure that the decision you made was the right one. I'm also
    sure that you must have placed him in one that is very good.
    
       The one I was working at (which I won't say - only through mail)
    was quite bad. They are no longer there and have been bought
    out. 
    
       I did learn alot by working there, things like - even though
    someone can't communicate, they still have feelings. It was also
    sad to see people who didn't get visited by their family. I often
    spent alot of time talking to them.
    
       I must admit that I shouldn't say never but I'll still try to 
    avoid the situation as long as possible.
    
       Peter
    
       

    I also went through the process of ultimately putting my grandmother
    in a nursing home due to Alzhiemer's.
    
    She went through most of the afore-mentioned symptoms, with forget-
    fullness being paramount. I stopped by her apartment one day to
    visit and found her with over $1000 dollars in the cookie jar.
    I told her I would take the money and deposit it into her account
    at the bank I was then employed at. Literally moments after I left,
    she had forgotten who I was. She did, however, have the presence
    of mind to get my plate number and deliver it to the police....
    
    After my father (her only child) had taken her into his home for
    a couple months, it was all too obvious she had to be placed in
    a home. Only those who must deal with the afflicted person can
    truly appreciate why.
    
    I got to thinking about her though. Despite the fact that everyone
    tells me she has a horrible disease, and I have in fact seen it's
    effects on both her and the family, in all honesty, the only one
    who seems oblivious to the whole thing is her! She is as happy
    as the proverbial clam. She has "company" every day. She serves
    them "ice-cream" she keeps in her "refrigerator".  Attends "parties"
    quite regularly and takes countless "vacations". All in her mind.
    
    I try to balance the whole situation by looking at it from her
    perspective. To her mind, she is an active, healthy, young women,
    unaware of what's happening to her mind. (She's healthy as a horse.)
    No trauma, no remorse, no feelin' bad about herself. Her world seems
    to be filled with ever-decreasing snippets of only the high-points
    of her life.
    
    Nobody remembers the early years of life. Your consciousness kind
    of "fades-in". Many people are quite aware of their impending deaths
    however and certainly hold some (if not great) amounts of anxiety
    over it. She, on the other hand, is simply going through a reversal
    of the process. Fading out. Unaware. But happy and content.
    
    As I look at her, I just can't buy the fact that she feels she is
    suffering at all...
    
    Edd

    This is a tough topic for me (probably for a lot of us).  My father
    died a year and half ago, of cancer (he was 70).  My mother is in
    reasonably good health (except for a vertebrae-fusion operation
    several years ago -- she is not supposed to lift heavy objects);
    she is 63.  She will probably live another twenty years or more,
    and has a financial planner taking care of her affairs, so I am
    not too worried over the short term about her.  The problem is my
    brother, who is now 30.  He is legally blind (sees somewhat better
    than I do without my glasses; that isn't saying much, for those
    of you who don't know me.  There is nothing that can be done for
    his vision).  He has been out of work for several years, is severely
    depressed, may be involved with drugs (I have no hard evidence of
    this, but cause for suspicions), and hasn't shown any real signs
    of being able to take responsibility for himself.  He is not stupid
    -- as a child, he was quite a bit smarter than I was, and very clever
    about working around his handicap (we all have handicaps, after
    all, that we have to deal with).  He has his own apartment several
    hundred miles from where my mother lives (1500 miles from me!),
    which she pays for.  I know this situation can't go on forever;
    my mother stopped working when I was born, and my father was a teacher,
    so there can't be huge amounts of money to spend in this way for
    all these years, especially since mother is still paying off the
    medical bills from my father's final illness.  I have nightmares
    about this!  I can see the whole situation remaining unchanged,
    twenty years from now or whenever, when my mother needs care herself,
    and me and Paul having to also shoulder responsibility for my
    then-to-be 50-year-old unemployed (unemployable, if he doesn't get
    his act together) brother, as well as my mother.  As was sadi here
    recently, they're family: I wouldn't refuse to take them in, but
    you can't blame me too much (I hope) for being more willing to care
    for my mother than my brother (though it's hard, because of his
    handicap).  I wish my mother would make some positive steps towards
    getting my brother to find his own way in the world, but I can't
    hardly give her orders on the subject (she has had to be very
    independent while my father was ill and since then), and we have
    no other relatives.  SHe is afraid that, if she tries to force him
    to move "home" with her (he's never lived there; she bought a smaller
    single-story house after Dad died so that she can care for it herself
    without having to haul stuff up and down stairs and things her back
    isn't up for) or cuts off the money she sends him every month, he
    will just up and disappear (as an adopted cousin of mine did; no
    one heard from him for about 12 years; he recently surfaced someplace
    in New York state, though, looking for my uncle, who retired to
    Florida years ago).  She does not want this to happen; we have very
    few relatives as it is.  Sigh.
    
    So, I guess, the answer is, NO, I haven't made any plans about what
    to do when either my mother or my brother needs care someday; the
    whole subject worries me too much as it is.  I guess I am
    (irrationally) hoping it will all goo away while I concentrate on
    other necessary things in my own life (like making my second marriage
    a success -- my divorce was a big disappointment to my mother).

My father is a widower, and fortunately, he has made plans with
his Masonic lodge to live at their facility when he is no longer
able to care for himself.  It looks as though he will get the 
best care possible there.  Right now his health is excellent.

My wife is a nurse who has worked at several nursing homes, and
it was a thankless and depressing experience for her.  There are
not enough people to provide proper care.  Her unhappiness put
stress on her and the rest of our family, and she decided to find 
another job (at a hospital...  that's no joy either).

Bruce Graves

    re .13
    I almost never watch TV, so I did not see "Promise".  Did it present
    any concrete solutions to the situation?  What ended up happening
    to the schizophrenic brother?
          
    /Charlotte

    My parents are both in their 50's, still working, and have enough
    in retirement and land/home value that no one has really thought
    about it.  There are seven children in my family, and it is pretty
    much assumed that whoever can help, will help
    
    I read the comment in .4 about never putting a parent in a nursing
    home, and my reaction was "you never will really know until you
    are forced to make that decision".  Does the writer of .4 REALLY
    have the financial ability to either NOT work, or to pay a full-time
    nurse?  My family has never been above middle-class, so I wouldn't
    know about that luxury.
    
    When my mother was growing up, her father (my grandfather) was a
    pilot.  He was supposedly among the elite, and they moved around
    while he got very high paying jobs.  When my mom was in elementary
    school, they lived in Alaska while my grandfather helped to set
    up some of the original radar tracking devices (I know NOTHING about 
    aviation, so may have terminology wrong) which allow pilots to fly
    through the barren snow covered areas.  When mom was in junior high,
    they lived in Colombia, South America, and socialized with Amasadors,
    and 'high society'.  
    
    The first blow to my grandfather came when there was a revolution
    in Columbia and they all had to flee overnight taking little with
    them.  He got another job in the U.S., but soon after came the second
    blow.  He had a heart attack, and was told that due to his poor
    heart condition, he could no longer fly.  Tell that to someone who
    has lived their entire life to do one thing, do it well, and get
    constant praise for his ability...  Needless to say, he was devastated.
    Although he had other jobs, by now he was too old to start again
    in another profession.
    
    In the following years he became less and less active.  My grandmother
    had gotten a job, but when she retired, they didn't have much to
    live on.  That is when my parents came in.  My dad has 10 acres
    in the Southwest, and is pretty much a handyman who built his own
    home during evenings and weekends.
    
    First they put up a mobile home for my grandparents.  They my dad
    build a small two-bedroom, two bath house (for my MOTHER's parents).
    Grandpa was told by the doctor that he needed to get a little exercise
    or his muscles would deteriorate.  He was subborn about it, walked
    very briskly for about a mile (after NO exercise for years) and
    nearly had another heart attack.  Convinced that the doctor didn't
    know what he was talking about, he stopped.
    
    Grandma always took really good care of herself, and felt it her
    duty to also take care of grandpa.  She waited on him hand and foot.
    When it became harder and harder for her to do everything, she got
    part-time help (partially funded by mom & dad - another comment,
    mom had to be the one to constantly try to get additional financal
    assistance from her brothers when these extra things came up - and
    we were probably the least well off of all of her siblings).
                
    Grandpa finally got to the point that the disuse of his muscles
    got to the point that he wouldn't even get out of bed to use the
    bathroom, and soon I don't think he could have if he tried.  Grandma
    would have still taken care of him if it hadn't become such a strain
    that she was no longer able.
    
    When she and mom finally put grandpa into a nursing home, they found
    one which was reputable, clean, friendly and close to home.  They
    each visited him daily.  Within a year, grandma died suddenly. 
    She was alway the one so healthy...  Grandpa lived it seems like
    another 3-4 years.  Mom STILL visited him every day, although it
    was usually to hear him complain about this thing or that.  She
    says that one day he asked her how long he had been in there, she
    replied, then he said "I guess that is long enough" and died within
    a week in his sleep.
    
    This is a man that was always active and happy, and fun-loving.
    I remember his with fond memories when I was young.  Something dramatic
    in his life changed him.  I think it was very difficult on my
    grandmother to care for him as long as she did, and I KNOW it was
    difficult for my mom.  This wasn't a disease that is easy to
    rationalize placement in a nursing home.  However, the constant
    care he needed, and the emotional strain that he put on everyone
    made things very difficult.  At some point you have to make a decision
    like this before someone cracks from the pressure.  I love my parents 
    very much, but no person deserves to live with constant guilt for
    making a decision which will also make their life more bearable.

    re:.13
    Promise was very moving and sad.  The solution at the end of the
    movie was for James Garner to sell the land his mother left him
    to enable his brother to be put in a home. The cost was 60k a year.
    The movie mentioned briefly other alternatives to home care besides
    hospitalization (they commented that hospitals treat Schizophrenics
    with medications, get them stabalized and send them out as fast
    as possible 2-3 wks) One suggestion was boarding house care, which
    is generally a private home that's paid room and board to give the
    patients someplace to stay with no interaction with the world at
    large. Or the sane person would have to keep the insane person at
    their home to veg, schiz-out, be hospitalized then brought back
    home again.  The solution in the movie would be great if everyone
    had the financal ability to spend 60k a year for GOOD care of 
    the insane in a well staffed hospital/nursing home.  I had heard
    that the costs and alternatives for the schizophrenic is the direct
    cause of the abundance of streetpeople.  They have nowhere to go.
    They live on the street in their own little worlds. 
    This is *not* to say that all street people are insane, but quite
    a few are according to many reports in the news.
    
    vivian
    

    The Wall Street Journal review of "Promise" pointed out that
    the "solution" offered was strictly temporary: the money was
    going to run out in a few years.  The review did not like the
    TV show, as it was not harsh enough on the "hero".  I read the
    review, but did not see the show, and so will not comment on it.
    
    As for parents getting old: I think I'm being realistic when
    I say that I am not going to either spend a lot of money or
    a lot of time with my parents when they get ill or old.  It's
    good that they are preparing--partly because we saw what happened
    to my grandparents.
    
    Aging is sad. I would rather not linger on in the way people
    now often do, but I'm not certain I will want to kill myself
    when the time comes, and there is no other certain solution.

    It looks like the best solution for one's old age is to have a
    plain daughter late in one's life, and make her do the care.
    If you're not up for such manipulation of a child's life, then
    you are facing a problem with no good solution.
    
    			-John Bishop

    re .18
    
    I'm usually the last to play the woman-activist, but give me a break!
    
    Have a plain *DAUGHTER*?  How about plain *CHILD*?  How about just
    a caring child (not so plain).   
    
    I wasn't born late in life, I don't consider myself plain, but I
    think I have the same willingness to help if my parents needed it
    as do my *BROTHERS*.
    
    -peg

    Ok, that's a legitimate question: why a daughter?
    
    Because, given how children are likely to wind up when brought
    up in current middle-class American society, your son is less
    likely to feel guilty or responsible enough to be reliably
    manipulated.  He is less likely to want to nurture a parent,
    and will probably be less likely to put up with hand-feeding
    and diaper-changing and all the wonderful things senile old people
    do.

    It's not a matter of anatomy being destiny: it's a matter of
    what the current odds favor, and betting on the horse most
    likely to win.
    
    However, you missed the whole point: expecting a child to 
    nurse you personally (rather than pay for it) to the
    exclusion of the child's having a normal life outside of the
    child's family of origin is not the result of your having
    brought up a caring child: it would be the outcome of your
    manipulative restriction of the child's freedom.
    
    Thus you should not expect more than casual visits and small
    amounts of payment from your children: _you_ must provide for
    your own old age, and provide for many decades of it than you
    would expect, and consider the possibilities of decades of
    severe senility.
    
    			-John Bishop

I disagree a lot!

I think parents have just as much right to be taken care of in their old age by
their children, as children have the right to be taken care of by their parents
when they are young. 

Part of the problem of the aged is that they are becoming a larger portion of
the population.  As people have less children, there are less children to spread
the care of elderly parents between.  When there are 6 or 8 children, you can
make sure your parents have constant care if they need it, but if you are an
only child it would sink you. 

I plan to take care of my parents in their old age.  Part of what will happen
depends upon their wishes, part depends on their needs, and part on my
abilities.  I will not ruin my life to make sure that my parents have all their
wishes met in their old age, but I am willing to help them as best I can.
Sacrifices have to be willing to be made on both sides.

Jim. 

    re .21
    
    The way you pay your parents back for taking care of you as
    a child is to have children of your own.
    
    			-John Bishop

Why? Then your parents get the pleasure of being grandparents, which everyone
knows is a lot of fun, more fun then being a parent... :-}

Jim.

    At the risk of spoiling a joke by taking it seriously:
    
    I said "you can't rely on your children to take care of you when
    you are old."
    
    Some one said "but I feel obliged to take care of my 
    parents because they took care of me as a child"
    
    I replied "the way to repay that debt is to have children of
    your own and take care of them."  I was not talking about revenge,
    but the re-paying of one good thing (your parents' care for you
    during your childhood) by another good thing (your care for your
    children, and your provision of grandchildren for your parents).
    
    Then two responses showed the authors thought I was talking about
    revenge.  .24 brought up the fact that not all grandchildren
    are desired--that's why I said "bring up", not "be the biological
    parent of".
    
   			-John Bishop

    I have always heard that you are only half grown when your parents
    finish with you, it takes raising your own kids to finish the job.
    Maybe it actually takes raising your kids and burying your parents
    to make the process complete.

I did not say that you should feel obligated to take care of your parents
because they took care of you as a child!

I said that a child should take care of their parents in their old age for the
same reason that a parent takes care of a child when they are young.

They are not the same reason.  I don't think "obligated' is quite the right
word.

Jim. 

I beg your pardon, the last note seems ambigious...  did your mother leave you,
or were you taken away from her?  Was your father unable, or unwilling to be a
"father" as you wanted?

To me, these differences would be important...  Sometimes there is nothing that
you can do about your shortcomings, even if the shortcomings need to be
forgiven, and need to be forgived.

My parents had several shortcomings, but I am sure they did there best. I don't
hold their failings against them. 

(Not to imply that you are unforgiving or et al...)

Jim

    Re:  .29
    
    > did your mother leave you, or were you taken away from her?
    
    I was taken away from her because of her neglect of us children.
    
    > Was your father unable, or unwilling to be a "father" as you wanted?
    
    I think he was unable to be a father as I wanted because of his
    age.  I believe it was morally wrong for him to father a child at
    his age, and as if that wasn't enough, he went on to father another
    child after me.
    
    I didn't realize I had so much hostility in me.  In fact, I thought
    that in my heart I had forgiven them, until I started reading this
    file - which brought all my anger to the surface.  It looks as though
    I am going to have to do some soul searching on this one.

Corey,

You don't have to cry alone...

All of us have skeletons in our closets...  Sometimes I wonder if it is the best
thing to seek them out and face them, or not.  I always do, but it could
be that I'm just a masochist... :-}

Jim.

    I recently went round with the thoughts of losing my father
    the doctors told him he had cancer in his lungs.
    I must say that this put me at an all time low of total depression.
    the reason i say this is i had never thought of him dieing he
    always seemed too strong to leave me all alone.
     I had a long talk with him and said the things I always wanted
    him to know but had never said. He told me a few things also
    and I feel better now for having thought he was leaving.
     You see they went in and tested and for once they were wrong
    and he will be around for at least a while (he is 64) and I am really
    glad that for a while I was made to think about what it will be
    like for him to no longer be there.
     I feel much closer to him than I ever did before and that cant
    be bad. I just glad I was made to think about the unhappy side long
    enough to change the way i thought and acted towards the man
    that means more to me than any other.
    To read here about anyone that wants their parents back to make
    them sorry just makes me sick no matter what their reason is.
    I was bitter at my father for some reason for some time and
    I wish i could take back the bad feelings he got from me then
    because there IS nothing that is so bad you have to hate them to
    the grave for it. FORGIVE you will be much happier and rest better
    too.
    when it is gone it is GONE!
    
    Happy to have a second chance,jerry
    

    I also posted this in MARX::MEDICAL, but since that file doesn't
    seem too active, I'm also posting here. 
    
    What is the latest on Alzheimer's?  And can anyone give me pointers
    to reading material -- can this disease be diagnosed now?  And
    what about support groups?
                              
    Jo-Ann