Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    	Stacie - you have my full support.
    
    	I encouraged my children to consider the same career opportunity,
    because it is a very stable, profitable career, and is recession
    proof - no matter how bad the economy - people will still die and
    require services of morticians. Very practical.
    
    	People's responses ? First of all that shouldn't influence your
    decision - if you consider it right for you - Do it. People tend
    to have many misconceptions about death, most people even fear it,
    and think that somehow they will avoid it.
    
    	Death is as natural as birth, and preparing the dead for burial
    is a vital need which should be handled with no misgivings. He who
    fears death often fears life as well - you relish life, and as such,
    you have a healthy percepetion of death.
    
    	I wish you the very best in your career plan.
    
    
    			Guy B.
    

    Does that mean he thinks there are no mortitians in Portugal?
    
    Ummmmmm......

    	Good luck with the new career path! I see it as just another
    job although really couldn't see myself doing it. A friend of mine
    has been involved with his fathers business since he was about 12
    years old and it hasn't made him deranged ( I say this because some
    people feel it does). He's a great guy and it's worked out well
    for him even though through school he was picked on unmercifully.
    
    			Mark Higgins
    

    
    Dilly, Go for it.  I have a friend who is also a funeral director.
    he also is outgoing and generally crazy.  He also understands the
    need for the proper decorum when he is dealing with relatives.
    Its a serious business that there is a real need for.
    
    Now all you need to do is get a three piece suit and proper hair.
    You did say it was pink hair...
    
    john
    

    Ok, Mike, just let me know beforehand, ok?;^)
    
    Morticians in Portugal...I'm sure there are, but I think what he
    finds unnerving is that *me* HIS SO is going to be one.  I think
    he has an idea of morticians as larger-than-life, and has a hard
    time thinking about me and the dead.  I guess where he's from they
    are very religious and superstitious about death, and my offhandedness
    disturbs him. He doesn't think all my newfound knowledge and industry
    jokes are very funny, which some don't.  I personally think that
    death is death just lik elife is life and it's no big deal all around.
    If I can be a mortician and do a nice job of it, help families
    through times of grief and have myself a good time at it, why not?
    Do the cadavers care if I listen to WBCN while I do my work?  Probably
    not.  I don't find it appropriate to make jokes about the individual
    dead people (which some do, I suppose as a defense mechanism) but
    as long as nobody objects and I'm not being my unabashed cheery
    self around mourning people, what's the difference?  All morbidity
    and gloom makes it quite dull and makes the *morticians* life
    miserable.  
    
    I'm not one who takes myself or anything too seriously anymore.
    I used to, but now that I have my life back I feel a lot better
    about myself and hope I can make people around me laugh.  So
    what if I'm a mortician.  Somebody's got to do it, and I think
    I could do a good job.
    
    People seem to think that it should be all solemnity and gloom.
    Save that for the wakes.  It's just a job.
    
    Dilly

    Dilly - what a name for someone who's going to be pickling folks!

    	I had a friend in high school who knew then that he wanted to
    be a mortician.  That's what his dad was, and that's what he
    wanted to do as well.  While the rest of us were sitting around
    not knowing what the heck we would be doing, Doug had his career
    all laid out (oh - no pun intended!).  He, too, was a real happy-
    go-lucky guy, musically talented, involved in the band, etc., etc.
    Yeah, some people thought it was strange (of course, high school
    kids think a lot of things are strange! :-) ), but that didn't
    phase him.  Although, when he gave his girlfriend her birthday
    present - a necklace in a box he had made to resemble a coffin - 
    we did think that was a bit odd! ;-)

    	Today, that's just what he is, and I hear he's real happy
    doing it.  In fact, I just heard that he got engaged...to the same
    girl he gave the coffin gift!

    	Go for it - you've gotta do what makes *you* happy!  Hopefully, 
    your SO will come to realize that you're still the same person you
    were/are before becoming a mortician, and become more comfortable
    with the idea that this is just the job you've decided that you want 
    to pursue.

    	Amy

    My sister-in-law is going to school to become a mortician.  Her
    SO is one and runs a funeral home so she had no problem with a
    sponser.  He got into it because his father is in the business.
    
    They had a christmas party at their apartment (above the funeral
    home) and I found that their friends from the business were a very
    interesting group of people and a lot of fun to be with.  You have
    to be good with people and be outgoing in order to be good at your
    job.  I also think you have to be fun loving otherwise dealing
    with all that saddness when your talking to the survivors would
    be overwhelming.
    
    My sister-in-law's SO took her father and I on a tour of the
    Funeral Home and we found it quite interesting. Our wives weren't
    interested in going on the tour however.
    
    Good luck in your new career...it along with medicine are probably
    the two most stable careers to get into.
    
    dv

    
    I have had some new developments, just overnight, that's how fast
    all this is moving suddenly.  I am so excited!
    
    An area funeral home called me at about 8pm last night telling me
    that they had heard from another home that I was looking for a sponsor
    home and was interested in getting into the business.  I guess this
    other person told them about me and thought I'd make a perfect
    candidate with my personality and sense of humor, and that they were
    sorry they had no place for me themselves.  (You should see my grin!;^))
    I guess the first person who called him said that I was good with
    people and that he thought I really "had what it took" in all areas.
    All this time I thought nobody would take me seriously, and here
    is this person I have met once raving about me to a friend of his.
    Makes one feel pretty good!
                                                                            
    Anyway, this guy wants me to come right in today because he has
    all kinds of interesting things going on at his home.  It's still
    only in the "interviewing stages" but he sounds like he has all
    kinds of big plans for me, from the way he talked.
    
    When I got off of the phone I was ecstatic, but reluctant to tell
    my SO about it, because of the way *he* feels and the way his lack
    of enthusiasm (or even feigned enthusiasm) always feels like rain
    on my parade.  These past few days, he knows something is up because
    all kinds of funeral homes have been calling, but I respect his
    uneasiness and "spare him the details."  This has been working well.
    Anyway, he could tell by my smile that it was good news and he dragged
    it out of me.  He was genuinely happy for me and we even talked
    about it!  I couldn't believe it, he was asking questions and giving
    me all the support I could ask for.  He explained the reasons why
    the whole thing gave him "the willies" (some strange childhood
    experiences-the poor kid!) and told he that he couldn't help but
    be thrilled to see me so happy.  I guess he was afraid of me having
    my own home someday and him having to live in it.  When I explained
    that that wasn't in the plans for me, he felt much better.  After
    that, we chatted it up about the whole thing and this morning he
    left me a corsage and a note saying good luck and "do good"!  Nothing
    could make me happier than him being behind me like this, I mean,
    we both felt like this was pulling us away from each other, as if
    we were going separate ways because of what would be my job.  He
    says he's still not completely comfortable with it, but as long
    as I change my clothes before I get home and don't get too graphic,
    he can live with it.
    
    Suffice it to say yesterday was a big day for me;^)
    
    Wish me luck today!
    
    Dilly

    
    	Good Luck Stacie!
    
    	Joe Jas
    

    Thanks, Joe.  I'll need your good luck wishes.
    
    I'm so nervous I can barely sit still!
    
    It's something like:
    
    Sure, Stace, you can do it!
    (If you don't get sick)
    You won't, you won't, you've been looking forward to it for so long.
    (I bet everyone thinks they can do it)
    But YOU can do it, you want it so badly
    (You'll probably laugh at the wake and horrify everyone) 
    **I'm one of those people who giggles when she gets super-nervous**
    
    I'm going to drive myself nuts until 2:00!
    
    Dilly

    Stacie -
    
    		Congratulatons and best wishes ...
    
    		Sounds like your big chance - really hope it works out
    for you.
    
    		Guy B.
    

    	Go for it, Dilly!
    
    	Keep yourself positively focused on this and it'll all work
    	out!  I admire you for pursuing your goals even in the face
    	of adversity and heebie jeebies from other people.
    
    							Carla
    

    Good luck!!!!
    
    I think it's great for you to want to do this, and by your wanting
    to do it you'll be very good at it.  
    
    My two dealings with funeral homes have been at opposite ends of
    the spectrum from each other.  When my father passed away, the funeral
    director was not at all sensitive to what we were going through
    and, I felt, was in it for the money and did not like my questioning
    certain charges.  When my mother passed away, I contacted a different
    funeral home to help with the obituary and memorial service (she
    passed away in Florida and was cremated there.  Her remains will
    be buried next week).  The funeral director was so helpful, sensitive
    and caring, it really surprised me.  So it's nice to know there
    is another person that really wants to do this.
    
    P.
    

    For reasons never made clear to me, my friend Tony read up on
    this and then bestowed the information on all his friends.  The
    only problem you may find is that you cannot deal with dead
    bodies.  It seems that some people just can't do it, and it comes
    as a complete surprise to them.
    
    So, if it happens to you, don't feel badly about it.  If it doesn't,
    keep the thrilled and excited attitude.
    
    Best wishes,				Ann B.

    
    I'm hoping I'll be okay.
    
    They told me that some people cry, run out of the room to vomit,
    all kinds of responses.  It's just a phase.  For some  people it
    wears off gradually, and then it's okay.  For others, the phase never
    passes.
                      
    I have my fingers crossed, but as the time draws near (an hour!!)
    I am feeling a lot more nervous and a lot less excited.  This is
    the big one, today.  I am very shaky, but I know if I can get through
    today, I'll be okay.  This is going to be a little more than a little
    business-talk and a brief tour of the facilities (sans bodies).
    
    Dilly_who_skipped_breakfast_and_lunch_just_in_case...
    
    Great, now I'll probably faint!!!;^)

    Excuse my ignorance, But can someone tell me what does a mortician
    do? I don't know much about the funeral or death preperations except
    when I go and pay my last respects and watch them bury my relatives
    and friends. 
      I kinda would like to know so when I make out my will/last wishes
    I can kinda know who is going to be doing what to my body.
      Also like  the noters before me Good Luck
    
    me

    Stacie, good luck to you.
    Just out of curiosity, what will you talk to your s.o. about your
    business?  Do morticians discuss "things" of the cold bodies with
    their families?  Will you be allowed to take care of male dead bodies
    too or just women?
    

	 Good Luck Dilly!  You'll be going into a career that you're
	 really interested in and that's important!

	 Keep us posted!  Especially in H_M!!!!  :-)

	 kat    

    You don't *really* want me to get into all the gory details do you??;^)
    I'll give you a brief synopsis of what mortician's do  (Boy, did
    *I* have fun the other day!)
    
    They pick up the body from wherever it is and deliver it to the
    funeral home.  (There are different courses of action to take
    depending on whether or not the person died at home, foul play is
    suspected, etc. etc.)
       
    They meet with the bereaved to discuss arrangements, dealing with
    them individually, depending on what "kind" of death it was (old
    person, young person, expected, sudden, etc) and help them with
    the decisions that need to be made, sometimes taking a lot of heat
    because the families are in shock and need someone to take their
    grief out on.
    
    They simultaneously arrange the obituary, the church and wake hours,
    arrange for the cemetary plot and the grave to be opened on time,
    (all this has to be done 'in sync' so that things run smoothly,
    i.e. that the church/cemetary/wake has to be planned so that the
    hours can run in the paper, and in time for people to attend.)
    
    They embalm the body, get personal items from the families to bury
    them in, make arrangements for jewelry, etc. "make them up", get
    their hair done, things like this are important if there is going
    to be an open casket. Sometimes they are required to do some
    reconstruction if the person has been ill or in an accident. 
    
    They plan the wake, coordinate donations, counsel the families
    and generally do all the necessary business for the family.
    
    They arrange for burial and flowers, that kind of thing.
    
    I think that morticians (of funeral service professionals as "we"
    like to be called) are given a bad rap.  Somebody's got to do it
    and I think I could do it well.
    
    The whole thing the other day went well, no passing out, not even
    any queasiness.  They were surprised.
    
    Dilly

    
    To quote a friend " I'm not a mortician, I'm a funeral director."
    I also perfer the later as it expresses the complete picture of
    his career.
    
    john
    

    Stacie,
       You can be anything you want, as long as YOUR happy with it,
    that is all that counts.  By the way, I know a mortician who is
    a warm guy with a great sense of humor (my husband and I always
    joke around with him). Go for it, I dont consider it a "sick"
    profession .  When I was in college, studing television production
    my parents thought I went into a field that was not practical.
    You know something, they were right...that's why I am here doing
    secretarial work :-)
    
    Lynne

    ...
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Let Dilly plant you a lily....
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    sorry, folks... just couldn't resist....
    
    
    
    Good Luck in your chosen path.
    
    R.
    

re Note 712.21 by PARITY::STACIE 


    ... pick up the body ... deliver it ...
    ... meet with the bereaved ...arrange the obituary, the 
    church and wake hours, ... arrange for the cemetary plot 
    ..........

    Jeez!  I hope this pays a good income, and I hope you find
    time to spend it.  :)

    Good luck!  Meigs

Hi Stacie,

Gee, this is a fast moving topic, huh?

Anyway, I just wanted to wish you luck in your new career decision. If you
can handle it emotionally, you'll do very well, I'm sure. It certainly isn't
for everyone.

After this point it might be a little too "real" for some. Be warned.
( I figured I'd say that so I don't get mail from the Moderator :^)    ).


I was kind of "raised" in a funeral home. My dad was the chief embalmer for
8 mortuaries in Los Angeles (Callanan Mortuaries) when I was born. My parents
tell me I used to sit on the next table and watch my father work when I was 
a baby.

Anyway, we moved back east, (to Springfield Ma.), and Dad was in the same line 
of work for awhile. Then he got out of it, for a few reasons. 

First....finances. In L.A., for example, we lived in an apartment upstairs
from the funeral home, rent and expenses paid (including food), and use of
the "fleet" (like the family car...etc.), PLUS $450 a week salary. The drawback
of this was the 102 hour week. He was on call every other night and every other
weekend, plus a normal day shift. When we came to Spfld., no apartment, no car,
and a $100 cut in pay.

Second....politics. In the west, cemetery plots are advertised on bus-stop
benches. You don't see that too much around here. Yes, it's a different way
of life out there, but that was an advantage. In New England, we are very
traditional. For the most part, the mortuary business is kept within the family
and "outsiders" have a tough time getting into the business. Obviously, you know
this is not a "rule", but opportunities _are_ limited. This kind of works 
against the "industry", because methods are passed from father to son, etc.,
and progress is slower (by about 10 years), than in L.A.  Out in California,
it is a LOT more competitive, not as "family-oriented", and thus, there is
always "new-blood" (pun not really intended), and consequently, progress.
In areas such as makeup/reconstruction, fluid mixtures, and general techniques.

Of course, this was about 10 years ago, and Springfield is not as progressive
as Boston, but from the few funerals I've been to in the last two or three 
years, (in L.A. and Springfield),things seem to be the same.

Anyway, my point is: depending on how much you want to get into this, you 
might want to check out other areas. I learned a _lot_ about pathology in
L.A., but things were different out here.

I don't want you to think I'm being condescending toward New England, I'm not.
On both coasts, embalmers and morticians are _very_ serious about their trade.
I can't think of any other profession where people take more pride in their
work. But they are still some partyin' dudes (& dudettes) at times. Normal
people. Like I said, it's not for everyone. But it isn't as eerie as people
think it is. It's part of nature, as has been said in an earlier reply. People
have always been disturbed by the unknown, and death certainly is an unknown.
Anyway, that is another discussion in itself. But you really have to know
where you are "from", inside, in order to be able to deal with this stuff with-
out getting "spooked" about it.   

I wish you well. Keep us posted.

					PJ Seder

ps Not to frighten you, (it might), but IMHO if you can deal with a burn
   victim, and it's accompanying "aroma", you're a better (wo)man than I.
					;^)

    All of you have been so supportive of me, and for that, I thank
    you.
    
    Now that I really have my mind set to do it, I feel much better
    about myself.  I think you always feel that way when you make an
    important decision that's been hanging over your head.  More
    positive and optimistic.
    
    Re. 24..The latest nickname has been "Dilly The Pickler..."  Ha
    ha, bad joke, but I didn't make it up...;^)
    
    Re. 26  You are right in all of your comments.  Like I said before,
    I don't think I am going to be interested in owning my own funeral
    home, and for now, I think I'll be all set financially.   The figures
    I have been hearing would be more than substantial for me at least
    for a while.   I am single and have no bills (really, no bills)
    and if I made as much as I do temping for DEC I'd be happy, but
    from what I hear, it would be a lot better.  I'd be in a field that
    interested me, and I think I would enjoy going to work (sounds funny,
    thoug, doesn't it?)
    
    Coincidentally, my SO is from L.A. and is planning on going back
    within the next year.  I am trying to get someone to take me on
    as an apprentice, maybe for 9 months or so, until it comes down
    to whether I go with my SO or not.  I'll need 2 years of apprenticeship
    in order to complete my diploma requirements, and am choosing to
    do it before attending school, for my own reasons.  I think MA will
    be a better learning environment for my first few months, as it
    is a lot slower paced and like you said, more family owned.  There
    are places in Boston that are like warehouses in the fact that they
    just have rows and rows of embalmers working 24 hours a day, they
    handle that kind of volume.  I am more interested in learning every
    facet of the job than standing at a table embalming body after body,
    which is what would happen if I apprenticed at a larger place. 
    Plus, they tend to give the apprentices the "lousy" work that nobody
    wants to do, and I assume "lousy" would be a lot worse in Boston
    than the type of "lousy" you'd find in Amesbury, MA, where I live.
    I hear that many funeral homes are using "trade embalmers" more
    and more to deal with "business overflow" and the gorier cases.
    These people are like temps, you just call them in to do their thing,
    they collect a fee and are out of there.  I guess there is a lot
    of money in trade embalming, but you'd have to have a lot of experience
    and be able to deal with the worst of the worst.  
                                                                        
    You're right to say that funeral service tends to stay in the
    family around here, I have been warned about that.  It's not
    like you can just go out and open up a funeral home out of the blue,
    you'd never get any business.  ("Oh Mildred, let's try that *new*
    place this time..."  No, I don't think so.)  It's all a matter of
    working your way up and becoming part of a staff, preferably of
    an operation that *isn't* all family run.  If it's what I decide
    to do with my life, maybe I'll go further and try to buy a share
    in a business and work my way up that way.  Who knows, maybe I'll
    marry into it;^)  We'll see.  Can't hurt to get the ball rolling,
    and I feel fortunate to know what I want to do (which many people
    don't) and to have access to it.
    
    Dilly

    Dilly,
    
    I wish you luck in your career choice.  I seriously thought about it at
    one point in time myself.  I took an aptitude test that had that on it
    as one of the top career paths for me.  For various reasons (most of
    them having nothing to do with the work itself) I chose to pursue
    computer science instead, but I know what you're going through.  I too
    ran into people who treated me like a ghoul, but I think to a large
    degree that it's *those* people who have the problem.   After all,
    death is a result of life, and *somebody* has to deal with the dead. 
    
    In case your wondering, my problems had to do with the business
    aspects of the industry and some ethics involved.
    
    Elizabeth

    
    Business aspects/ethics?
    
    Like what, if you don't mind me asking...I am always interested
    in hearing any/all opinions/views on this subject, there are many
    things, I'm sure that I haven't considered.
    
    Send mail if you feel more comfortable that way.
    
    And to anyone, if you have any personal experiences or comments
    you care to share, I'm here.  I am very interested to know the
    good/bad impressions that people have and why, so as to guide
    my own steps.  NOTES may not be the proper forum, so please, send
    mail...
    
    Dilly

I'll take a guess, and speak for Elizabeth, having spoken with her on the
subject ... 

Mortuaries, Cemetaries, Funeral Parlors are *BIG* business.  Costs of a funeral
can *easily* run 10K$.  Lots of folks don't have that kind of money, it's been
known to bankrupt more then one family.  

Yet legal requirements and 'normal' customs do not allow a simple, natural
burial, or cremation performed by the family and interested friends.  The
coffin, the cemetary, the memorial, the coffin container, the funeral parlor,
and even what you may do with the ashes for God's sake, are all obligatory and
big business. 

A lot of people don't like the thought of their family's having to spend $$$
just to put a body in a hole in the ground when they die.  I don't like the idea
of taking up X amount of real estate from the time I die untill eternity... 

I'd much rather be buried without the preservatives, ala' natural in a pine box,
or just a shroud, and be allowed to become part of the earth naturally. 
 
Is there anything that can be done about this Dilly?  What's the lowest cost you
can get for being buried?  How much can be a private family ceremony? What is
required by law?

Jim. 

    
    
    Hi Jim, we're neighbors, you know...

     
    I don't know the answers to your questions yet, but as soon as I
    find out I'd be glad to share them with you.
    
    It's not something Amesbury Public Library has many books on...;^)
    
    Dilly

    I can tell you it costs plenty to be burried.  My little girl (6
    years old) died three years ago and it cost $3000.00 to bury her.
    Quite a few of the expenses I didn't feel were necessary like $175.00
    to pick her body up in Boston (Boston to Fitchburg).  I would much
    rather have brought her home myself.  Everyone I've said that to
    thinks I'm a ghoul.  She was my baby and having to leave her at that
    hospital, along with everyhing else just about killed me.  Anyway...then 
    it cost another $150.00 for the ride to the cemetary.  I can't remember
    all of the expenses off hand but you are right...it is big business.  
    It's my understanding that laws are different between states.  Someone
    told me had I lived in another state, I could have brought her home
    with me.  Do you know if that's true?
                        
    

    After reading my note again, I wanted to make sure no one misunderstood
    what I was saying.  By "I could have taken her home with me" I mean't
    taken her to the funeral home myself instead of them picking her
    up.
    

    I have a very good friend whose dad is a mortician.  The first time
    I stayed overnight at their house was 10 years ago.  I was 14 then and
    their house was over the funeral parlor.  That was the only time it
    bothered me that her dad was a funeral director.  After that, it seemed
    like just another job.  I suppose when you grow up around funeral 
    parlors, it is not seen in a negative light.
    
    I think people will get used to it - it just takes more time for some.
    
    Good Luck !
    
    Ellen

    I don't know if I am registered in this conference but I have been
    reading and have to add my two cents.
    
    I have never understood why embalming is done.  I have a real 
    hangup about it.  I have decided on cremation just to avoid being
    embalmed.  I would rather be ashes than a dryed up prune that someone
    digs up in a couple of hundred years.
    
    
    
    
    

    Other than as a way to preseve the body for viewing (a short-term
    goal in most cases, but not in Lenin's or Mao's), there's no good
    pragmatic reason to embalm, except for those who do the work and
    thus make money on it.
    
    If you believe in the resurrection of the body in a direct, literal
    and physical manner, then there is a religious reason (similar to
    that of the Pharaohs) for perserving as much of the actual body
    as possible.  Embalming and caskets then make sense.

    But the laws can require it in some areas, even for bodies which
    are to be cremated.
    				-John Bishop

    Re .36
    
    If you are going to have a standard wake, they usually embalm the
    body anyway, the supposed reason being so that it doesn't spoil
    during the wake, which may be several days.
    
    You can get away without it by having a speedy cremation, but that's
    not the way it's usually done.
    
    Elizabeth