Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    
    I have many allergies, to cats, to cigarette/cigar/pipe smoke, to
    perfume, to dogs, to a lot of things.  Not only breathing-wise either,
    if someone touches a cat or dog and then touches my skin, I generally
    get mild to serious hives.
    
    If I am going to visit a person's house who smokes, I may request they
    not do so in my presence, or I may request they tell me when they will
    be smoking so I can step outside or into another room.  If they have
    pets, I generally request they vacuum the day before (though not just
    before I arrive, that kicks up pet dander), and when I am present that
    the pet(s) be in another room.  
    
    If they do not wish to do this, I am not offended.  I simply rethink
    whether or not I wish to go.  If there are too many pets inthe
    household, sometimes I do not go, since i know that even the most
    heroic cleaning measures will not spare me discomfort.  However, many
    friends of mine know my "dwell time" is increased by the above measures
    - the more they make the place breathable for me, the longer I will be
    able to stay.  I realize that if they do not wish to clean or relocate
    the pets that it is not an affront or insult to me, it is not a
    judgment of me, it is that their pets are a necessary part of their
    space, and I can understand that.
    

    Guests should be treated as such, guests... I have a pet, (a dog) but
    if one of my guests get upset or has alergies or whatever to the dog...
    no questions asked, the dog goes down to the basement or to another
    room away from the guest.  If a person is non smoker and comes to my
    home where I smoke... I always ask if the smoke bother them... if it
    does, I do not smoke in their presence.  I can always wait till they're
    gone and then I can do whatever I want in my house, but I cannot impose
    "my" smoke on a guest... I can also tell you that I would be careful
    not to invite the guest into close quarters too often!
    I always thought that a host should be gracious to any of his/her
    guests and I do the best to treat them the best I can.  Courtesy works
    both ways. I won't take from a friend to tell me not to smoke in my own
    house either, "I" decide what is good for me and what it isn't...
    fortunately, I don't have that kind of friends!
    
    I don't know if this helps you or not, as it is just my interpretation,
    but I go a long way to make guests feel good at my home and never
    thought how far or how short I should go, I just would eliminate
    whatever made inconfortable, and if that conflicted with my customs...
    we would change locations and meet someplace else besides the home.
    
    I seldom entertain for the sake of entertaining... when I bring friends 
    home I love to do anything that please them and don't mind
    compromising.
    
    (I cannot prohibit a guest to smoke in my house when we're smoke free, 
    I've quit, and during my non-smoking periods I allow smoking near me and 
    it does not bother me at all).  Most of my friends are the same, they'd
    do anything to make you confortable at home and never think twice of
    any extra work that that may cause.  I hope this helps.
    
    Ana
    

    I would also try to make the guest feel comfortable - my dog would be
    put in her kennel if they didn't like dogs.  My husband and I are
    smokers, but we never stop anyone smoking in our home (in moderation).
    
    My parents are very heavy smokers - about 80 a day each, and when they
    come and visit, it is very difficult, because they NEVER consider how
    their smoke could effect anyone else, they are also very difficult to
    approach on the subject - ask them to cut down and they'd refuse to
    come again!  They will also smoke after a meal - even if other people
    are still eating.  I think it's because they just don't THINK.  They've
    smoked so long, they never consider it could be offensive!
    
    Also, when guests come to my home, I would expect them to respect my
    feelings e.g. children who destroy the home in 5 minutes - I sometimes
    feel like putting them in the kennel with the dog!!
    
    

    previous note should read NON-smokers!!

    
    We have a cat a dog and fish.  The cat and dog "live" in the family
    room downstairs.  The rest of the house is pretty much off limits!  The
    fish are in the living room, however, they don't mess the house up like
    the others and most people aren't allergic to them.
    
    My youngest daughter has asthma so in addition to not letting the
    animals mess up the rest of the house, my daughter can safely go to her
    room or the living room or wherever (other than the family room) when
    she's not feeling well.  She's allergic to the cat (which I only found
    out about 2 years ago - the cat's 9 years old).  When the cat goes,
    naturally, I won't get another.
    
    So, if folks want to stay away from my pets, they can easily do so.
    
    Smoking is not an option in my house.  You just don't do it.  Most of
    my friends who do smoke know that.  Needless to say, they don't drop by
    often, but that's okay with me.  Funny thing too, when we go to their
    house, they don't smoke in their house around us either!  I must say
    that's my husband's fault.  He's the one who really hates smoke.  He's
    made it very clear.  In fact, when he first met them, he would go
    outside when they lit up.  Eventually, they asked me why he went
    outside and I'd tell them it was because of the smoke.  So, now they
    don't smoke with him around.  Which we really appreciate.
    
    Anyway, that's how it's done in our house....
    
    
    						jean
    

I am allergic to cats and to a slight extent dogs... like a previous noter I
have a "tolerance-time" after which I have to leave.

On the whole I try not to go to peoples houses who have cats.... I invite them
back instead.  When I do visit a friends house I will request that the cat is
ousted until I leave - but to be honest I wouldn't be there more than an hour
anyway, before I start sniffling, crying and gasping for breath.

My sister also has a cat... when I go to babysit it is put outside, and I dose
myself up with anti-histamines before I go... this increases my tolerance to
3 or 4 hours...

So planning on behalf of the allergy sufferer can help...

My house is no-smoking except for in lodgers bedrooms due to my asthma, but at
parties I don't stop people smoking... it just happens that in my circle of 
friends out of the 50/60 people who turn up at parties only 3 or 4 smoke... so 
it isn't too much of a problem...


I would never stop a guest smoking, unless they light up without asking if I
mind - perverse, I know, but the consideration of asking is what I'm after...




Xtine

    Before anyone comes to my house I inform them that I have 4 cats and
    that I smoke.  I leave it up to them to decide whether they want to
    come over or not.  If I am having alot of people over, I will restrict
    smoking to a separate room in the house.  I never lock up the cats. 
    Usually after investigating what is going on, they go to the  back
    bedroom and stay there until the party is over.
    
    If people choose not to come to my house because of the cats and
    smoke, I don't have a problem with it.  If I choose to go to a
    non-smoking house, I will either go outside to smoke or just not smoke.
    
    Karen

    I allow no one to smoke in my house, period.  This includes my boss
    and my 80-year-old mother (who is old enough to know better).  My
    brother won't visit because of this but there is little lost there.
    It isn't just that they pollute "my" air....but they do significant,
    long-term damage to walls, rugs, furniture, even the walls.  Problem
    is that most of them live in such stunk-up homes themselves, they
    don't even realize it.
    
    Biggest problem I have with visitors is my own damned thirty-something
    kids, who revert to 11 years old 5 microseconds after they cross the
    threshold....even to the point of bitching about the food after a
    couple of days or criticizing our musical or TV viewing choices.
    Threw the last one out (a lawyer yet) when he wanted to borrow a pair
    of my shoes ferchrisakes, and then threatened to leave when I said no.
    
    The biggest problem with the kids is that they think they are "home".
    I've finally got their heads reoriented so that they now realize that
    is my home, not theirs and they are guests.  It wasn't easy.

re. last several - Can you tell it is almost that time again, folks?

	the "Great American SMOKE-OUT is Thursday"

	B^]

    re -1 .... and I for one am waiting for DEC to ban smoking outright
    in all facilities.  I'll wait another two years for them to not hiring
    smokers, period.  So There !!!
    
    

Smoking is effectively banned in most US DEC facilities already, other than
designated smoking areas.  However, not hiring people because they are smokers
has already been shown to be unjustifiable in several court cases.


Nobody is allowed to smoke in our house or in our cars.  We have friends and
relatives who smoke, and they are asked to use the screen porch for that
purpose.  We've never had a problem with that.

We do have a cat.  If we know we will be having guests who are allergic to
cats, we will 1) Inform the guest that we have a cat, 2) Try to remove as
much of the cat fur and dander from the house as we can, and 3) If necessary,
confine the cat to our bedroom while the guest is present.  Obviously, the
latter only works for short periods, but so far it has not been a problem.

However, if I as a non-smoker were to visit a smoker's house, I would not ask
them to not smoke in my presence.  I'd either decline the invitation if I
felt it would be too much of a problem for me, or put up with the smoke.  
Fortunately, those whom I've visited have been kind enough to not smoke when
I'm nearby.

				Steve

    RE: .0
    
    Hi Barb,

    Was it my party that inspired your note? :^)

>>1.  How far are you, as a host, supposed to go to make your guests 
>>    comfortable in your home?

    If the host invited the guest over, there should be some effort to make
    the environment more hospitable to the guest, such as putting the pets
    away in another room, airing the house and vacuuming thoroughly.

    There is a point where it gets annoying, though,...
    I have this one friend who DEMANDS that we banish our pets and
    thoroughly clean the house before he'll honor us with his presence.
    It gets old very fast.  Since most of my friends have pets, people
    are starting to reconsider how much we really need him around.

>>2.  What level of discomfort are you, as a guest, obliged to tolerate?

    	Obliged?  You're not obliged to endure anything though the host
    	might be sad that you couldn't attend the social gathering because
    	of allergies.  It's not a one-sided issue; both the host and guests
    	should put some effort in considering each others' feelings when
    	working on this problem.

    	I'm allergic to cats myself (surprise, Barb? :-) )  I was allergic
    	to my ex-girlfriend's cat for a while, until I got used to her.
    	I'm allergic to about half the cats I encounter.  When I'm
    	visiting, I try to endure the runny nose for a while; most 
    	of my friends understand and appreciate my putting up with it
    	temporary.  

>>1.  You are a pet owner, and you know that a guest you have invited to 
>>    your house is allergic to your pet, what should the host and guest 
>>    be expected to do?

    	At my party which I'm holding at a friend's house, I told him that
    	it's his house and his rules.  We both love the kittens (I
    	delivered them) and want to show them off to certain friends at
    	the party.  Barb, for example, is allergic to cats.  As
    	her friend, I should have the place cleaned as much as possible
    	of the cat hair and try to keep the kittens out of sight during
    	the party.  

>>1a. Or maybe you don't know your guest has allergies before they are 
>>    already at your house?

    	It would be nice if the guests should make it known to the host 
    	that they are allergic so that the hosts have an opportunity
    	to remedy the situation.

>>1b. Or maybe you don't know your host has pets before you are already
>>    at their house?

    	Whoops...

>>2.  Nobody in your house smokes.  You have friends which do smoke that 
>>    you would like to invite over.  Can you tell them "no smoking inside" 
>>    or are you obliged to let them be comfortable and smoke in your house?

    	Outside. :-)
    	There's not much more that can be done to pets since they live
    	there.  However, smokers don't have to smoke inside.  At the
    	parties I go to, guests are asked to smoke outside so that they
    	can smoke and not affect other people.  It's your house, your
    	rules.  At some parties, even the hosts will smoke outside. :-)

>>2a. Or the opposite:  you live in a house of smokers and you have guest 
>>    who is a non-smoker.  

    	It would be polite to refrain from smoking temporarily while the 
    	guest is there, particularly if you invited the guest over.  If the
    	stay is extended, then it would be polite not to smoke in their
    	presence.  Of course, being polite and doing the right thing are
    	not necessarily viewed as the same thing.

    	B.

Benson, I didn't mean to make you defensive!  Your party DID NOT inspire this
note!

You know I'm going to your party, and I probably would go even if you said the 
kittens would be following me around the whole time!  I love them even if they 
make me sick! :^(    

If someone is having a party, I try to ask about their pets.  If I know ahead
of time I can medicate myself to extend the length of the visit.  I do this
without complaining.  If I forget to ask, well it's my own fault and my penalty
is that I have to leave early.

But along the same lines, if I'm at someone's house (not a party situation, but
maybe a couple friends) and they know I'm allergic to their cat, I'd appreciate 
them not letting it rub up against me all night.  I feel that that would be 
polite, but I feel I would be out of line in making such a request, the cat 
lives there not me, and I knew it was going to be there before I accepted the
invitation!  So I say nothing, and the length of my visit gets reduced. 
Maybe this is a hint? :^)

As far as smoking goes, right now we have a "no smoking inside" rule, but 
because it's a rule that "my roommates made" I have no problem enforcing it.
In the good weather, this is easy.  I do however have several close friends who
smoke who I haven't invited to the house.  I'd like them to come and visit, but
I don't want to make a scene, so I avoid it by not inviting them.

Next year I expect to move to my own place.  I won't have the crutch of roommate
policy, it will now be _my_policy_.  I'd like them to visit, I'd like them to
be comfortable, but I don't want them to leave the scent of their visit on my
furiture etc, forever!  Hopefully I'll have a porch, but that's not always a
pleasant option weather-wise.

It's great to hear what other people do.  Thanks!  Now I can go back and ponder
some more about what I will do.

Barb

    Recently I was visiting the USA and we went for dinner with our hostess
    to her daughter's home, which has a no smoking rule and all smokers were
    told to smoke outside. As it was pouring with rain an umbrella was
    provided for them. Our poor hostess was slung out into the rain by her
    daughter. I should point out that the daughter is married to a
    pulmonologist who has *VERY* strong views on the subject of smoking.

    I notice that every time we have a smoker visiting even for a brief
    period I can smell the stale smoke the next day and if we have one
    staying with us the place stinks for weeks. I just wish that I had the
    guts to tell them to smoke on the balcony.

    Jamie.

    Neither my wife nor I smoke, and our home is a "no smoking" zone, no
    exceptions for anyone regardless of the weather. We do have a covered
    patio, so its not too bad if its raining though. Its our home and our
    air and it WILL remain not polluted by cigarette, cigar, pipe, etc.
    smoke of any kind. If I'm is somone else's home though, their rules
    prevail.
    
    As to our pets, the cat has been there for 16 years, and I would never
    consider kenneling her for someone's visit. I might limit her to a
    particular area of the house, but that's as far as I go.
    
    As far as inconvenience, the digs are as they come. I don't plan to
    change them for visitors.
    
    Eric

    I might draw fire for this, but I say my home is my castle!  It's the
    only place I can be me and let it all hang out, and though I'll try to
    spruce it up (get re-acquainted with the vacuum) when company's coming,
    I do NOT feel obliged to provide a clean-room environment for the
    general public's health anomalies or personal preferences.
    
    That said, if I know a visitor has an allergy to cats, my kitty will be
    confined to another room avec kitty-box (she doesn't go outside).  If
    this is to be an overnight guest, the guest breathes dander at his/her own
    risk (fair warning before the guest arrives)!
    
    I haven't smoked cigarettes in 7 1/2 years, but there is a pipe smoker
    in the house (my Dad) and even if no one in the house smoked, as a
    former smoker I keep ash trays *everywhere*.  The only time smoke
    bothers me is when it blows directly from the cigarette into my face; I
    actually enjoy the general smell, though stale smoke is neutral for me 
    on the enjoyment scale.  If I were still smoking and a guest expressed
    annoyance, I would probably put out the one I had going and try not to
    smoke for the rest of the visit.  I've always thought "smoke-free
    party" is an oxymoron--whether you smoke or not, the people you want
    to party with are in the OTHER room!
    
    Now when I'M a guest, I have to abide by the host(ess)'s rules, as in
    Veteran's Day weekend when my hostess insisted on opening all the
    apartment windows (it was 40 degrees and raining out) all day and all
    night.  I tried to curl up around a cup of coffee, but it was instant
    (at least it wasn't decaf) with skim milk (turning the coffee to a
    deadly ash-taupe color) and a sugar substitute (yes I CAN taste
    Nutra-Sweet).  When I turned in at 10pm, she woke me up at 15 minute
    intervals with various questions, comments and announcements until well 
    past midnight.  I found all of this petty BS annoying as hell, but I
    will go back because I know what to expect at her house and it's not
    annoying ENOUGH to drive me away.
    
    Leslie
    

    I have 4 indoor cats, so if a friend is allergic to cats, I suggest
    that we always meet at a restaurant or at their place.  I can't coop
    all 4 cats up in one room with a kitty litter pan for the duration of a
    visit.  Besides, I resent the fact that I would be expected to.  My
    cats are important to me and it's their house, too.
    
    I, also, ask people to smoke only on the porch or outdoors since nobody
    who lives in our house smokes, and I don't like breathing smoke.
    
    Lorna
    

    I recently imposed a no smoke ban at my home I have two friends that
    visit unannounced quite often. Both of them smoke like an untuned bus 
    on a cold morning leaving my house smelling like a dirty ashtray at
    least till their next visit. The side effect of the ban is they don't
    visit as often and when they do it's for only a couple of hours -vs-
    the all day visits I grew tired of long ago. I had been pretty tolerant
    up until I found several burn marks in my carpeting next to a chair
    one of them liked to sit in that really chapped my butt.
    
    -j

    I warn my guests ahead of time of anything that may be bad.  Currently
    I don't have pets, but before moving here, I did.  WHen I'd invite
    someone over, one comment I made a point of is "Oh by the way, I have a 
    cat in case you have allergies." Smoking is something I do, but I long
    ago established no smoking rules in my house.  I don't like the effects 
    it has on furniture, walls, drapes, and other people.  So, tht's not 
    much of a problem.  I warn those of my friends that the rule exists
    when I invite them over.  My house, my rules, or don't bother coming
    over.  I didn't mind holding the cat up in another room. Vacuuming
    before a guest arrived.  But as most cat owners know, and people who
    have cat allergies, vacuuming isn't 100% affective.  So, I give them
    warning.... I have a cat, in case you're allergic, I'll vacuum before
    you come over, I hope that will suffice, if not, perhaps we can go
    somewhere else.  
    
    I have an obligation to my guests, just as they have to me.  When I go
    to visit a friend, I don't even think about smoking inside the house.
    I just get up and head outside saying 'Excuse me a moment, I'm going to 
    step outside for a cigarette, I'll be righ back.'  Why should I light 
    up and stink up their house when I don't do it in my own?  
    
    Skip

    Hi,
    
     Thought I'd enter my two cents.
    
     My husband and I are non-smokers. I am mildly allergic to smoke. My 80
    year old mother-in-law lives with us, and she is a smoker. Before she
    moved in with us in April, we told her there would be strict rules
    about smoking. Nick was going to ban smoking in the house altogether,
    but I told him, you don't tell an 80 year old to stop doing something
    like that. It's her home too.
    
     So, we bought an air machine that sucks up the smoke pretty well, and
    told her if she wants to smoke inside, she has to sit at the kitchen
    table and turn the machine on. She leaves it going for about a half
    hour after she finishes smoking, and the smell goes away quickly. She
    knows the smoke bothers me though, and usually goes out in the enclosed
    porch to smoke. We told her it's too cold out there now, but she does
    it most of the time anyway.
    
      So, since we already have that rule of smoking at the table, when
    smokers come over, we give them the option of smoking at the kitchen
    table. They usually don't smoke, but they know the option is open. We
    spend a lot of time at the kitchen table with friends anyway.
    
      In June we really put the air machine to the test. We had a memorial
    service for my father, who passed away in Florida, and a lot of my
    family stayed with me during their stay. All of them smoke! I had two
    siters and their husbands, a brother, and three nephews all smoking at
    the table at the same time! The smoke hardly bothered me at all, and
    the machine cleaned the air and the smell out quickly. I did need a new
    filter after that though ;-).
    
     I also have two cats, which I am mildly allergic to at times. I'm
    pretty used to my own cats. If I know ahead of time that someone coming
    over is allergic, I do all the same things the other folks do,
    vacuuming, put the kitties in the bedroom or outside, etc. If I am
    going over to a house that has cats, I tank up on anti-histamines
    before I go over, and that helps me out. I wouldn't dream of asking
    anyone to remove a kitty. I'd be too busy loving it up!! I don't mind
    an occasional runny nose and itchy eye. I love kitties!!
    
    
    Anyway, just my solution to a live in problem.
    
    Y

    re.20
    
    That air machine sounds swell.  He smokes, I don't.  I just tolerate
    it.  But that air machine may be worth getting.  How much does such a
    thing cost and how many rooms or sq.ft will it suck up in air?
    
    cindy

    re: .21
    
    The one we have is a pretty small one. It is put out by Holmes. It
    takes a Norelco filter replacement that can be ordered by mail. I could
    not find it in any store, but the order blank came in ther box.
    
    It keeps a room that's about 24' by 18' fairly smoke free. Of course we
    make her smoke right beside the thing, but when you enter our home, you
    don't smell the smoke. (Unless of course you come in while she is still
    smoking, or very shortly after)
    
    I really didn't realize how good a job it does until she started
    smoking out on the porch, which now is closed in for the winter.
    Thereis no machine out there, and it reeks of smoke! My husbnd is about
    to tell her no smoking out there until we can get another machine to
    put out there. I don't go out there much, so I really noticed the
    difference.
    
    I only paid 20.00 for my air machine. I know there are better ones put
    out by Norelco and other companies. I think they are a bit more
    expensive. The one I really want is arount 60.00 I think. We just
    bought the cheap one to see if it would work well enough to allow my
    mother-in-law to smoke inside at all. After the new year, we will
    probably buy another one, and put the little one out on the porch.
    
    Hope this helps.
    
    Y

    re.22
    
    Thanks!
    
    cindy