Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    
    to triangulate, or not to triangulate, that is the question.
    
    I don't envy you.  You're in a difficult position.
    
    If I were you, I'd talk with her, and invite her to talk about her past
    with him.  If you can't be honest about your past, what's there to base
    a relationship on?  I'd express to her my concern for him, and my fear
    that he needs to REALLY KNOW HER, past and all, to decide whether he
    wants to be in a serious, monogamous, committed relationship with her.
    
    If she does that, I think that will start the dialog you would like to
    have happen between them.
    
    If she chooses not to do that, you can choose to either tell him
    yourself (and considering you had asked her to tell him, and she
    hadn't, if you convey this to your friend it will start a much HARSHER
    dialog between them, but the information will get there nonetheless),
    or back out and let them progress as they choose.
    
    
    Be aware that if you tell him, and he breaks up with her, she may blame
    you.  
    
    Why *shouldn't* she tell him?  What does she gain by not sharing up
    about what she's gone through in relationships?  One good waay to
    ensure that old patterns continue is by making sure new mates don't
    know what came before - but if it's shared with a new mate a
    mutual plan for altering old behaviors (if a person TRULY wants to end
    old behaviors) can be put in place.  Or at least a foundation for
    discussion if they start creeping back in.
    
    
    I guess my take is "honesty is the best policy".  If they have enough
    to base a relationship on, and enough concern for one another, 
    he can choose to trust her, and she can choose to be with him - only him.
    
    -Jody
    

    Tell him to get an unlisted telephone number, if the mystery call ups 
    continue, then something is going on.
    
    Let him know about her past and let him draw his own conclusions....
    
    It sounds to me like a bad match from the start.
    
    She sounds like she enjoys the 'excitment' of a new relationship 
    but doesn't have the 'stuff' to commit to a serious one once the 
    'magic' has gone and reality has set in.  
    
    THere are people in the world who crave the stimulation often
    associated with the start of a new relationship the 'passion and fire'
    that dissappears after being together for a while.  It's quite
    possible, and from the discription of her relationships I have little
    doubt, that she's this type of person.  In which case, he will find 
    that the sooner he gets out of it, the better he'll be.  
    
    Skip

    Here's what I'd say...
    
    To him: Would she cheat?  Short answer--from what I understand of her
            past, it's not entirely beyond the realm of possibility.  But
    	    I feel that you should work this out yourselves, and I'd
    	    appreciate not being drawn into the discussion.
    
    To her: He is concerned enough about the future of your relationship
    	    to be asking me about your past.  I'd appreciate not being
    	    drawn into the discussion.
    
    Leslie

    Reply from anonymous base noter follows - 
    
    

reply 1298.2

>>    Tell him to get an unlisted telephone number, if the mystery call ups
    continue, then something is going on.
              
She has had an unlisted phone number for several years. Thats part of the
reason he is suspisious. Its seems unusual to him that someone with an
unlisted phone number would be getting this many "wrong numbers". He went
to the trouble of dialing all of numbers that closely resemble hers to
see if there was a pizza parlor or something. The number that most closely 
resembles her is also an unlisted number. He has surmized that not to many 
people should be calling this number.

>>
    She sounds like she enjoys the 'excitment' of a new relationship
    but doesn't have the 'stuff' to commit to a serious one once the
    'magic' has gone and reality has set in.

She is aware that she was "non-commital" in the past but claims that guy 4
taught her the meaning of commitment (ironical - he was married) and that
she was commited to him. Theres a new twist.She used to get violently ill
when she would be seeing two men at the same time (guilt maybe ?) and
my co-worker recently told me that she has been getting sick lately??
                                                

    What I'm suggesting is CHANGINg the number now... it is possible that 
    someone has gotten hold of the number and enjoys the 'hang up' game...
    If the number is changed, and the calls still keep comming, on Monday 
    nights as before, then obviously she has given the number to someone
    who enjoys the game or is communicating the signal.
    
     As for the illness, ummm I hope it isn't morning sickness.
    
    

    If the introduction was a casual one, meaning that there were no
    intentions on your part to "hook these two up", disregard what I'm
    about to ask...
    
    Based on what you wrote about both your coworker and friend, I'm more
    than curious to know why you introduced your coworker to this person in
    the first place?  Their "hitting it off" could have had a lot to do with
    looks or up-front personality...but the behavior of both as far as
    each person's idea of a relationship seem very incompatible (IMO).
    
    That being said, if she is a good friend, then you may want to tell her
    that your coworker has spoken very fondly of her and then ask her what
    she thinks of him.  In this casual way, you'll probably get the idea on
    whether or not she seems serious about the guy, or whether he's good
    for fun and laughs.  Obviously, don't ask if she's going to cheat on
    him like she's done before, but find out whether she sounds interested
    in the guy.  Next, return that bit of information to the coworker ("she
    told me that she really likes you" or "she likes you, but more as a
    friend").  Bottom line, they'll have to work it out on their own.  If
    you tell him your friend's dirty laundry, she'll probably never speak
    to you again.
    
       Best of luck...
    
       - Larry  

    
        You don't know that anything *is* going on; anything you could
        tell him would just be conjecture on your part.  *Don't* tie her 
        down to her past by telling him about it.  Maybe this relationship 
        is something different for her.  Give her that chance.
    
        Tell your (male) friend that you sympathize with his situation, but
        that it sounds like he and XXX need to talk.  If he pressures you
        further, remind him that if he doesn't establish communication with
        her now, he is setting himself up for a lifetime of detective work
        if he stays in the relationship.
    
        Similarly, I wouldn't get involved in asking her if she is 
        cheating on him or communicating your friend's concerns.  If the
        subject comes up with her, I would simply tell her what a great guy
        he is, and change the subject.  
    
        Your telling him *anything* about her will only get her mad at you, 
        and if you *know* (i.e., not just suspect) something is going on, 
        not telling him will only get him mad at you.  Your best strategy
        is to stay as ignorant of the situation as possible, and if asked,
        to respond only with generic common sense.
    
            Sharon
                                        
        P.S.  if your (male) friend never goes out with anyone else you
        introduce him to, so what?  You didn't give him any guarantees (I
        hope), and he has no right to expect one either.  SO's, as a rule,
        come in as-is condition.  Mutual friends shouldn't be expected to
        provide warranty service. ;-)
    

    The guy has a 6 figure income?
    
    Heck, I'LL marry him.  ;')
    
    
    Seriously, this girl sounds like bad news.  If you can't trust someone,
    then any future relationship is verrrry risky...

    Hmmm you know after reading some further responses, I think I want
    another shot at what's been said....
    
    Especially after Mike's comment... which is a very good point.
    
    
    If the relations ship has reached the point where he's asking questions
    then there does seem to be a lose of trust, at which point he needs to 
    clear the air.... HIM not YOU.  IF he's having doubts, then it's up to 
    him to confront her with them.  Confirming them with the phone change 
    and such won't solve the problem one way or the other.  Expressing his 
    concerns, although there are not promises, might.  It might shake her 
    up enough to realize that the guy wants something more then she has to 
    offer.
    
    If you know the feelings of them both well enough and there appears to 
    be a mutual desire to make everything work, suggest they both go talk 
    to a marraige counslor... you'd be surprised how much information 
    one can provide a couple who are living together.
    
    Skip (who may have let personal feelings cause him to jump the gun)

    I'm interested in why you introduced them, and even more so as to why
    you are worried about future introductions.
    
    The implications of your note is that if this one doesn't work you will
    introduce him to the next suitable candidate on your list.
    
    You seem to be setting yourself up as a dating agency, and I just
    wonder why?
    
    
    Also, anyone who is so suspicious as to actually ring up all those
    numbers strikes me as having a problem himself.  This in itself is a
    very decietful thing to do - why not just have it out with her
    directly.  Its like pressing the RECALL button after someone has made a
    call - I bet he's done that too.
    
    I wouldn't be as quick as some of the people here in critising HER...
    sounds to me like they both have problems...
    
    
    
    Xtine
    
    

    	The following reply is being posted anonymously for the base
    noter -
    

    
re 1298.10


>>    I'm interested in why you introduced them, and even more so as to why
    you are worried about future introductions.


 While at lunch with him we bumped into her and he later asked me for her
number and she said it was ok to give it to him. I'm not in the business
of cupid but I don't want to loose his confidence.

>>  Also, anyone who is so suspicious as to actually ring up all those
    numbers strikes me as having a problem himself.

Good point. As far as I know, he typically will date someone for about 
three
months or until he finds something significantly wrong with them that he
will brake off the relationship.  He's in his mid-thirties and has never
married or lived with anyone so maybe it is his problem. Although,
this is 1992 and with the AIDs virus and other social diseases as well
as the amount of infidelity and high divorce rate it seems to make sense
that people will want to "check out" their new partners.

    
    	From the quick scan I've done so far, they both sound like
    Relationship Addicts. This is an actual phenonema, not just a catch
    all phrase. One of its characteristics is "chasing the flame", as
    Skip mentioned. Also going three months until you find a blemish;
    then breaking it off. Changing lovers as you would CDs in your
    changer - I mean player. (I'm clowning there...) The inability to
    comitt to even a live in situation, let alone marriage. Having a
    pattern of dating married men; they're relatively safe - they have
    to deal with the spouse before they can get back to you. Now, isnt
    _that_ exciting?
    
    	Seriously, these two can either choose to keep their lives with
    all it's attendant misery (having the anxiety to go dial every possible 
    digit-slip of someone's phone number is a miserable way to live) or 
    they can get past their denial of "having a problem" and do something 
    about it. Because, proverbally, if nothing changes, Nothing Will
    Change. And, that someone you "hit it off" with - who they are - says 
    just as much about *you*. Now I dont mean to get the last word in
    here, I just happen to be here doing some moderating and thought I'd 
    say something.
    
    	Joe 

    Re-1 and latest comment from Originator.
    
    I have to agree that if he's fallen into a pattern of a 3 month 
    relationship and break off... then there's definatly a problem with
    both sides.  
    
    Your concern is admirable, and I've done the introductions of people 
    myself... but you should do what I've done in those situations....
    
    "I'll introduce you, but I'm not to be held accountable for anything 
    that happens afterwords.  I care about you both, and if you make it 
    or break it, is not up to me or anything I say or do.... it's strickly 
    between you two."
    
    When they confide things in me, I do not repeat what one has said about 
    the other, and play dumb to as much of it as possible only offering 
    very token advice, IF it's saught from me.  And even then I'm hesitent
    because in these situations I stand the risk of losing both friends and 
    would be better off trying to stay as impartial to both sides of their 
    relationship as possible.  
    
    Oh and just one other thing.... I realize he probably dialed all the 
    possible combinations of one slipped finger but a phone number has 
    7 digits not to mention the area code.... Has he dialed ALL the
    possible combinations of numbers?  What if the 'error' in dailing is 
    actually in 2 numbers.... 
    
    
    Sorry a little devils advocate there.
    
    The fact is that the possible error of a phone number is quite a LARGE 
    number of combinations..... and it would take a LONG time to dial ALL 
    the numbers...  If he's dedicated himself to this... then he DOES seem
    to be displaying some rather obsesive behavior.
    
    Skip

re: funny phone calls

when an obscene caller or harrassment caller gets a number that responds
in any way, he/she remembers it and uses it again.  The fact that there
have been repeated calls means, in and of itself, nothing.  I had a jerk
calling me for months - we are unlisted - but he kept calling and saying
one dirty word and then hanging up.

re:  the two lovers...both sound too young and too shallow to make it...so,
prepare yourself for the breakup - it IS coming...it is only a matter of
time.  relationships don't work without trust.  She sounds like she needs
her ego pumped up enough that she will keep looking for the man who tells
her she is wonderful enough times to spin her head a a bit...of course,
after she is living with a guy he cannot say it all the time..so she goes
and finds someone else to give her the boost to her self-esteem.  It
doesn't come from within, so it never sticks.  She needs help and I hope
she finds it - if not, she will continue to have messy love affairs and
no lasting love.  He, on the other hand, sounds like the fella looking
for "that PERFECT WOMAN" - you know the one...she makes all his friends
envious and she never ages or gets sick or gains weight or disagrees
with him and she is always hot for him and ..... sorta like a walking
Barbi Doll.  He thinks he has found her - and then he discovers that
she is too human.  So off to the chase again.

If I were you, base-noter, I'd tell both of them...I'm not in charge of
your love life - talk it over, work it out, do whatever you want, but
don't hang it on me....you are big enough to sleep together and that
means you have to take this part of it too.  And then I'd stand by
my word....

Oh....and if you like her...don't introduce this "wonderful man" to any
other woman you know - he is pretty damned toxic, I'd bet.  That 3-month
cycle is leaving alot of women with shredded hearts to pick up the pieces.
And, she will never need you to make introductions - she will always be
working another guy on the "side"...so, you are well out of that one too.

This explains my number 1 rule...NEVER introduce anyone to anyone...

	
    	Anonymous reply from basenoter follows -
    
    
reply 1298.14

Somehow something got confused. he said that he tried only several likely
mistaken phone numbers not every possibl combination.

Also, I would like to thank everyone for there input. I've decided to
tell him to face her and ask her about anything in her past or present
that might be bothering him. Also, I'll ask him to leave me out of there 
relationship
 and settle there own problems. to her, I'll subtlely remind her that
he is a nice guy and a good catch and she should not screw this one up.

    
    Personally, I feel this relationship has been doomed from the start. 
    First of all, there is no communication between the two main people --
    the man and the woman.  If they cannot confide in each other about
    their pasts, or even feel safe enough to ask the other about his/her
    past, then this relationship will not work.  There is also no trust
    involved her (shown by his suspicions).  If he trusted her AND if they
    could communicate, he would not be running to you and asking questions,
    he would be asking her.
    
    These are the two main ingredients to a happy healthy relationship,
    Communication & Trust --- if you don't have either, then it's probably
    doomed.
    
    I am just surprised that this guy would move in with her without
    knowing anything about her past???  
    
    My main suggestion for you would be to stay out of it, and as the
    others here have stated, suggest to your friend that he talk to the
    girl about her past.
    
    Good luck,
    Debby
    

    
    	The base note has been set hidden, at the request of the anonymous
    base noter. It shall remain set hidden indefinitely.
    
    	Joe