Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    	Did the 27 year-old first move out of her parents' house at
    	24???  Even *that*, to me, seems a little too old to be living
    	at Home.  Yes, it is expensive to live on your own, especially
    	if you live alone, but think about the parents for a moment.
    	If they experience financial difficulties do they simply move
    	in with the grandparents??
    
     	There comes a time when a person has to take *full* responsibility 
    	for his/her own life.  At 27 it should have happened years ago.
    
    						Carla
    

    Why did she move home?
    I moved back home for 6 months during my divorce. My family diddent
    need me back but took me in with open arms because they knew I needed
    their help. I still belive that I would have not made it thru that
    difficult time without the support and shelter they gave me. 
    We dident always get along but got thru the problems and became
    closer for it. I during that time learned alot about my parents
    and who they really are and they grew to understand me better.
    It can be a good or bad experience depending on the attitudes involved.
    If my parents dident really care about me or found my presence as
    an irritation it could be been the wedge to drive me away for good.
    As it was they cared and gave me support when I needed it most and
    I love and care for them more than ever for it.
    That my story, I dont know how this relates to your situation but
    if someone needs your help give it if you can. 
    
    BTW- I dident take advantage of my family, helped on expenses as
    much as I could and took care of myself. I.E. own wash,cleaned my
    room,ect.
    
    -j

    I was the only one of six kids that didn't get married young.
    When I was 25 years old, my parents sold our house out from
    underneath me :-).  They bought a mobile home in Nashua and
    still welcomed me to come with them.  I've NEVER been able
    to save a dime in life, but went out and got an apartment
    on my own.  Boy, there have been countless times I wished I
    could move back (and they wish I would) but I get by.  I doubt
    I could go back, I know I'd spend all my money (what money, she
    asks?) and never get back out again.  
    
                                    cj
    

    RE: .0
    
    No one can give you a pat answer about this.
    
    Today's economy is FORCING many young adults to stay at home longer.
    The days of cheap housing are long gone. 
    
    It depends on _your_ situation. If the irritation is so great, or
    if you are so bothered about feeling ``immature'', then move. Who
    says that living at home, regardless of age, is a sign of immaturity?
    The pressure to move out is partly from cultural conditioning. Know
    how I feel about cultural conditioning?
    
    				Thumbs down! 
    
    I think the irritation of shelling out megabucks for an apartment
    is greater than being able to save those dollars for a place of
    your own, as a so-called immature person.
    
    
    WW
    

    My mother has some friends who are complaining that for whatever
    reason - money, divorce, heartbreak, depression, whatever - are
    finding their kids moving back in with them.  She took a book out
    of the library, titled, "When older children return home" or something
    like that, and I skimmed it and it had a lot to say about how to
    make such a situation livable (for all involved), and what potential
    problems/obstacles should be recognized and dealth with post-haste.
    
    You local library/bookstore should be able to help you with the
    exact title/author.
    
    -Jody
    

    MY mom makes $350 a month from the social security she paid into
    for 20 + years.
    She helps my sister and two brothers whenever she can.
    I am proud to say I left my parents financial responsibility when
    I was 18 years old and haven't cost them anything since.
    It is all that you have.
    Come to this country with nothing and noone .... maybe it will do
    some good.

       I'm the parent of 3 Teenagers, and I'm having a tough time
    contemplating the fact that they might be living at home with
    Ma and Pa when they're in the 21+ age bracket. I felt guilty
    living with the folks until the ripe old age of 22 whilst a
    Junior in College (commuter student)! I got married that
    Summer, bought a house that Fall, and got my Bachelor's degree
    the next June. T'aint like that these days judging from what
    I've seen/read about life in the 80's.
    
    						regards,
    							Bob
    

Well folks, this doesn't feel good, but I'm currently facing this
very issue for the (?) third time in 14 years.  I don't believe it
(moving back home with parents) can be attributed to 'immaturity', but
rather to purely economic issues.

When I graduated from college in 1974 with a music teaching degree I got
my first job and my salary was only 8K. I lived at home for three years.
After six years of teaching Prop 2 1/2 hit Massachusetts my salary had 
increased to a whopping 13K ... didn't afford me the opportunity to live
away from home and save too ... so unemployed and doing 'temp' work, I 
moved back in with my parents and stayed with them for another 2+ years.
                              
To make a long story short, all in all in the past 35 years I've lived ALL
BY MYSELF only for one year...(without housemates or parents) and to 
afford to do that I had to eat yogurt for nearly 1-2 meals per day.  The
good news is that I was THINner and healthy ... but broke $$ all the time.
                                                            

For a number of reasons (mostly $ financial) I'm facing moving home with
Mom once again... and it doesn't feel good.  Guess I should be thankful that
I have a Mom and she will 'take me in'... and we'll financially be in a better
position to help each other!

Penny

    	Whatever your decision is, Penny, good luck to you, and
    	welcome to FRIENDS.  =8*)
    
					Carla
    

    I think there are a couple of reasons for people living at home
    longer. the first and foremost is that it is to damn expensive to
    live in the outside world unless you share expenses with at least
    one other person. The other one is and this is mearly a theory of
    my own design, That since people are in general living longer lives
    it takes longer for the maturation process to be fulfilled and
    therefore they live at home longer.
    
    I moved out for the first time right after graduating from boarding
    school. I worked at an inn for the summer and when that closed I
    went to work on the fishing boats. After about 6 months of that
    the work ran out and I had to move back home for awhile because
    the work I was getting didn't support me. I then moved out again,
    to a different resort town and worked there for a year. After that
    stopped I had to move back home again. I had the intention of only
    staying a few weeks but ended up working for my father so it made
    sense to stay at home. Then when I stopped working for him and came
    here as a contract worker I wasn't making enough money to be able
    to support myself so I stayed at home. I recently moved out again
    this time for the last time. I've promised myself that I will not
    move back no matter how bad it gets. Living at home after living
    away is the pits. No matter how well you get along with your family.
    Everything is all wrong. You have to live by thier rules again and
    do things thier way. Alot of time thier way is the best way but
    you rebel just the same bnecause you feel bad about having to rely
    on them again. It can make you feel useless. Now I don't know that
    this paragraph is pertinent to the subject but I think what I'm
    trying to say is; to the parents, your kids don't want to be there
    any more than you want them to be there but you have to be patient
    and help them get back on thier feet, and to the kids; Your parents
    would love to have you move out but they probably realize the situation
    you are in and are willing to help you help yourself to get back
    on your feet but they will definitely resent carrying the whoe load
    for you.
    
    						Geoff

For me, when I'm home, I pay their mortgage and split utilities.  I usually
end up buying all the food and doing the cooking and most of the housekeeping.
Guess I kinda take over... certainly not letting them 'carry the load', fyi.
I carry the load, but it ends up being cheaper with parents than with housemates
or roommates!


Penny

        Another reason may be that living with one's family is more the
        norm than the indpendence taht we are trying to make the norm.
        For thousands of years people have lived in extended families
        with 3 or more generations under a single roof. Now for one or
        two generations we've been moving out to be "on our own". But
        the pressures of tightening economics and perhaps the loneliness
        of independant life are driving us back to our families, and we
        think that that means there's something wrong. 
        
        It worked for thousands of years. Mightn't it work a few more
        years?
        
        JImB. 

    This is perhaps a good time for me to enter the discussion.
    
    I am from so far east, it is west of Hawaii.  Over in the eastern
    part of the world where the majority of mankind still lives, there
    is definitely nothing wrong with staying with your folks.
    
    I hope you bear with me as I examine the arguements against this.
    
    Financial burden ?  
    Not so if you contribute to your family income.
    Problems with relationships ?
    Well, most of mankind has had problems with parents since they were
    born.  Even if you move out and stay with a room-mate or wife or
    husband, you're just as likely to have problems.  Disagree ?
    Children are a nuisance ?
    I'm not a parent so would any parent out there who says that they'd
    rather not have their children around please raise your hands.
    
    I guess there would be a serious exception if the moment I hit
    eighteen my folks decide to sell the house and go looking for 
    treasure.  Please don't flame me if you think I am against
    people not staying with their parents.  I don't.
    
    What I don't see is why staying at home with your folks makes
    you immature ?
       
    Non comprendez
    <DANIEL>
    

        The simple answer to your question is that staying at home with
        your folks doesn't make you immature. Thus, as I see it at
        least, your lack of comprehension of the reasons is completely
        appropriate.
        
        The reason that people have gotten the notion that only the
        immature belong at home is the radical individualism of American
        culture which puts inordinate emphasis on "getting out and
        making it on your own." Self-reliance and independence have
        become so important in our culture that they have overwhelmed
        the importance of interdependence and of dependence. I, for one,
        am not at all convionced it is a good thing.
        
        JimB.
        
        PS: RE: "so far East I'm West". Given the structure of the
        Easy-Net, it would seem that from the DEC perspective Tel Aviv
        is in the Far East and Hong Kong and Singapore are in the Far
        West. The center of the world, of course, is not the Greenwich
        Meridian or Rome, but Greater Maynard, whither all electronic
        roads lead. Right?

    
    I too regret the overemphasis on independence here in the USA.
    About ten years ago, all the available one bedroom apartments
    vanished, here in this town, as if everyone wanted to live alone.
    
    	I once asked my parents (at the age of 26) if I could move 
    home for two years of school.   I would be able to afford a better 
    school program if I didn't also have to come up with rent.   I was
    turned down, and ended up going to a cheaper school.  I wonder
    about it all, while my parents have a large, mostly empty house,
    and I live in my one bedroom apartment....
    
    	I think this is a sign of the massive sicknesses in our
    culture.   We don't want to care for the old, or the sick, or
    in many cases not even children.   I am young, and have no children,
    and my parents are healthy, so why should I care?   Because it
    could fall apart at any moment, and I couldn't take my parents
    in if I wanted to, since I spent all my money on rent...   I hope
    they don't need me, because all I have learned how to do is to
    be alone and independent.   I hope I don't have to need them, 
    because they want so bad for me to be "independent".
    
    	I think independence is a delusion.
    
    		Alan.

And I'm from so far East, "home" is on the other side of the
world  ;-)

Re: Alan in .15 - your note was moving, as I mentioned to you in
my mail message. It echoed certain ideas that have been evolving
in my subconscious over a long period of time.

Some background: my parents paid my way through five years of college, 
thank goodness, I had enough to deal with at that time! I had time to 
do exceedingly well in college, have loads of fun, initiate several 
friendships that I maintain to this day after moving over to the U.S., 
and experiment with all kinds of things and experiences ;-)

It was only after I moved to the U.S. (at the tender age of 22!) 
that I had to learn to both support myself and handle graduate school 
at the same time - a rather horrifying experience that I decided to 
terminate as soon as possible by graduating and entering 
the real world. I used to teach college courses for a living,
and I remember students of mine, some in their teens,
often coming in bleary-eyed and exhausted to class - many
of them used to work nights to support themselves. I used
to think back to the secure environment that I had enjoyed
as a college student, and wonder: what price independence?

As in .15, I was once almost victimized by someone with the extremist
notion that "always handling things yourself is good for you". I had 
a serious financial problem during my graduate studies in the U.S. and 
a close relative (can't be too specific here) chose not to help me,
although he could have - said something about "toughening me up". 
If it hadn't been for a friend bailing me out, I don't think
I could have managed this crisis. Hardly surprising that I
visit this friend every Thanksgiving, not the esteemed 
"family member".. 

Also, I don't recall feeling particularly exhilarated when I
started working and became "truly independent". There were times
when I had the chance to help some of my friends who were still 
in school and I'm happy I had these opportunities.

Perhaps inter-dependency is something that needs to be nurtured
as something that is both natural and healthy.

Ganesh

    When I wrote this note, I was feeling very low about living at home.
    It really didn't matter to me what others thought.  It was more
    a question of how to deal with two other adults living under the
    same roof.  I guess I also questioned my motives in moving back
    to Pittsburgh.
    
    After reading some of the replies, I deleted my note because people
    were getting the wrong impression of my question.  Anyhow, things
    have been going very well....It was just a matter of establishing
    some ground rules.  
    
    The other night, I had tears streaming down my face from laughing
    so hard and I thought, "living on my own was nice but there's
    something so special about living with people you love."  I enjoy 
    cooking, gardening, yard work, and doing nice things for people....
    if I lived on my own, it would either be impossible to do or at least 
    not as much fun.  Being on your own teaches you to be independent, 
    resourceful, and how to deal with the world.  On the other hand,
    living with family teaches you to compromise, to express your
    feelings, to discuss (rather than argue), to assert yourself when 
    necessary, to love, to share (my brother is always missing socks which
    I borrow), etc.  I know it won't always be like this so I've decided
    to enjoy my mother while I still have her and learn about my brother 
    while I'm able.  I'm not saying it's going to be heaven but anything
    worth having is worth working for.
                                      
    Reading the recent replies, it's nice to know that people still
    value the family and its importance in our lives.
                                      
    Kris                              

    
    I grew up in a military family and had homes all over the world,
    so home was wherever we happened to be living at the time. 20 years
    ago (at age 20) I "left" home courtesy of Uncle Sam's Army and since
    then have never HAD to move back, but the door was always open.
    
    Three years ago I lost my father and within the last year, my mother.
    Lo and behold, their isn't any place to go back to anymore. (my
    in-laws are nice but that doesn't count). Since my grandparents
    had originally moved to this country from Europe, they were used
    to living in an extended family situation and I guess I just took
    it for granted that that was the norm. Lo and behold, I've just
    recently realized that I would like to have the security and warmth
    of that extended family (and the problems too), but like they say
    "You can't go back home again" when there isn't one.
    
    Enuf is enuf,
    DG