Conference quark::human_relations-v1

      Whether or not it was right for the two people to be engaging in
      sex on company property, and whether or not it was right to fire
      them is irrelevant, as far as I'm concerned.  This kind of
      incident happens a lot (I've heard stories like this at every
      company where I've ever worked), and the participants sometimes
      get fired.  So, regardless of official policy or lack thereof, it
      is dumb to engage in sex on company property, on or off company
      time, because you'll might get fired. 
      
      Just one person's opinion.  
      
      Dave C.

	Dumb, yes, but automatically firing two people on the spot for
	doing something which appears not to violate any written rules
	does not look like the "right thing" to me. They should have
	been chewed out, but firing people for one mistake seems like
	excessive punishment.
	
	Mike

    Hey Don, that was great! I enjoyed the red A grinner.
    
    Anyway, I guess this is an extremely touchy situation. It was a
    slightly unintelligent thing for the 2 people to do. At least they
    should have gone somewhere that getting caught would be less critical
    but then again, sometimes desire overcomes logic. I should know,
    I'm in my prime :-) :-) :-).
    
    Anyone know what DEC's policy states if something like this were
    to happen? Makes you think twice doesn't it?
    
    Mike

    I'm too lazy to walk over to my desk to read through the P&P Manual,
    but I doubt that the situation is covered in there. It might give
    people ideas, you know.
    
    (At one sf convention I attended, the program book contained a list
    of guidelines of conduct. As a joke, one of the rules said, "No
    sex in the con [hospitality] suite." Sure enough, a couple locked
    themselves in one of the suite's bathrooms and prcoeeded to have
    a go at it.
    
    Anyways, I agree with Mike. A written warning is the harshest
    action that should have been taken.
    
    --- jerry

        I'm at home. No PPP here.
        
        When DECcies have been caught at this sort of thing, they have
        always been immediately fired, as far as I know. It may or
        may not be right; it may or may not be written up; but it
        certainly is the policy in this company.
        
        Of course this is *DEC* we're talking about. Uniformity of
        policy has never been our long suit. I do know of couples
        being fired out of both central engineering and DIS, though.
        
        JimB. 

    I can't agree with the majority here.  It was a pretty stupid thing
    to be doing.
    
    I'm no lawyer or genius, but it seems to me the company probably
    had a couple of reasons for doing what they did:
    
    	1) Liability.  Don't ask me how, but if a child was produced
    	   from the act who knows what sort of legal hullabaloo might
    	   ensue.  As we all have reason to know, the legalities
	   surrounding this sort of thing are tangled and obscure.
    
    	2) If they're on company property, they're probably supposed
    	   to be performing some company-sanctioned activity (like
    	   working).                                 
    
    	3) Sensitvity of the jobs of the involved employees.  If you've
    	   got some guy at a job that could require a decision at any
    	   moment, but he's somewhat incapacited because he's off having
    	   a quickie, it could cost the company money, and other people
      	   might get hurt.
    
    So, I feel bad for the people involved, but they asked for it.
    
    Dave W.

    	Well, I have just returned from a weeks vacation to find that
    we have succeeded in taking one more step towards fulfilling part of Orsen
    Well's "1984" prophecy (in which sex of any form was illegal for purposes
    other than procreation).

    	The fact that no policy seems to exist to govern in cases of sex
    at the DEC workplace (even afterhours - as was the case here), has led
    me to suggest what one might look like:

    1st Base (kissing):		Slap on the wrist.
    2nd Base (petting):		Written warning.
    3rd Base (oral sex):	Written warning and 0 percent raise.
    Home Base(intercourse):	Firing on the spot (no pun intended).

    						-DAV0

    p.s.  Sex could be permitted by married couples in the bed found in the
	health services office for procreation purposes only (and only after
	signing a waiver).

    re .11:
    
    That was great. I thought it was a refreshing thought. Thanks for
    the laughs Dave.
    
    Mike

re .11

> Orsen Well's "1984" prophecy (in which sex of any form was illegal for
> purposes other than procreation).

First of all, "1984" was written by the British author George Orwell
(pseudonym), not the American actor and director Orson Welles.

Second, banning sex in conference rooms is not a "big brother" act.  Digital
(or any other company) has every right to decide who does what on company
property.  After all, if some manager started using your bedroom to hold endless
meetings that bored you out of your mind, you'd have every right to throw him
out and tell him never to come back.

    
    	RE .14
    
    I do not think you understood what .11 was refering to when he made
    the "1984" statement. I think he was referring to the Supreme Court
    ruling not the two people fired! 

re. -1

	Thanks for setting me straight on the writer's name.  I tore my
    house apart to find my old copy of the book last night because I had
    a funny feeling that I was way off.  My apologies to George.

>Second, banning sex in conference rooms is not a "big brother" act.  Digital
>(or any other company) has every right to decide who does what on company
>property.  After all, if some manager started using your bedroom to hold endless
>meetings that bored you out of your mind, you'd have every right to throw him
>out and tell him never to come back.

	Also, to clarify my opinion of "Big Brother" styled encroachments
    into our lives, I am refering to nation-wide trends in general which
    contribute to a general loss of freedom, and not to Digital specifically.

    	My mention of Digital was merely to point out how ridiculous such a
    policy might look like in writing if it were implemented in a corporation
    such as Digital.  This is probably why it isn't spelled out in the
    policies and procedures manual (if in fact it isn't).  I trust that
    management (and security) have sufficient discretion in these matters
    to distinguish between flirting and out and out DECadence within the
    walls of our company.  The only problems I can foresee happening would
    be when the disciplinary power(s) are motivated by personal vendetta
    (i.e. jealousy).

	In the meantime, keep on cube-kissing.  The blue meanies haven't
    taken over quite yet.  Stay tuned for my updated sex-at-work policy.

						-DAV0

>    It's been almost 12 hours, DAV0.  How long DO we have to wait?

	Oh, geeeeeeeez!  I forget how live this is!  Well, I was kind-of
    putting myself into Orsen Wells...er, uh...George Orwell's shoes for
    a minute to imagine ahead to say - 1990 or so, to when Vaxnotes is
    replaced by a new set of VAX/VMS command switches:

	$MONITOR PROCESSES /BRAINWAVE /USER_ID= <badge-number,...>

	...and the reasons Vaxnotes died, was because most of the former
    noters had since been imprisoned for something or another that they
    wrote once which was interpreted as being too offensive for a moral
    (and lawsuit prone) society.

	This new VAX/VMS command set allows for 24-7 monitoring of all
    employee thoughts at all times and is 99% accurate (the remaining
    1% is reserved for those thoughts that are so confused, that even
    the originator can't make them out!).  Ok, now that the scene is set,
    I will proceed with the updated (1990) version of the *hypothetical*
    DECsex policy (which comply with the new laws of the land):

	1st base (fantisizing)			-slap on the wrist
	2nd base (lusting)			-written warning
	3rd base (prolonged eye-contact)	-written warning and 0% raise
	home base(touching)			-firing on the spot.

	Of course, by this time, the punishments aren't so bad considering
    that almost everyone is either fired, or imprisoned for one thing or
    another.
						-DAV0

re. -1,

    	You're right Don, if the thought monitor was here today, the
    percentage of confused thought would rate much higher.  To explain
    why, I will offer this historical analysis of the events leading
    up to the "updated DECsex policy".

    			~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

	By 1990, the people being monitored represented the predominantly
    non-noting community.  Most noters had since been eliminated by this
    time for their morally (politically) offensive textual creations and/or
    accessory to the fact thereof.  The only noters still employed were
    among the low-profile variety who never dared to defy the unwritten
    laws of NEWSPEAK (I think that was George's term).

	The majority of remaining "Orwellian" employees merely EXISTED
    at work; similar to a domesticated breed of cattle.  The amount of
    confused thought present in these bit-brains was next to nil (the
    beauty of a bit is the fact that it is always either "on" or "off").

	Ever since the porno-purge of 1986-88 occured, only the truly
    silent remained as the majority.  It began in the courts, then the
    commercial marketplace, and didn't hit DEC (since we don't have any
    commercials) until the Vaxnotes utility was implicated by someone
    claiming a note they read once was morally offensive.

	After an extensive government panel investigation, it was
    determined that such a communication tool was too morally (politically)
    unfeasable, and the byte-burning began.  When it was all over, all that
    remained of the non-work-related notesfiles was an edited version of
    Bible.note; amen (big) brother!

						-DAV0

    RE: .20
    
>    	The majority of remaining "Orwellian" employees merely EXISTED
>    at work; similar to a domesticated breed of cattle.  The amount of
 
    Actually, early indications of this phenomenon first showed up during
    the reorganization heydays of the early '80's when hundreds of boat
    people, displaced from their previously active responsibilities in the
    territories they had called home, merely EXISTED at work, similar to a
    domesticated breed of cattle, working, for example, in Strategic
    Thought Units, developing 'strategies' that would, of course, never be
    able to reach the stage of serious consideration before the next
    reorganization came. Of course, they could take pride in the fact that
    they were allowed to colonize new pastures. But as outsiders in these
    new lands, they were almost constantly pressured to move from one green
    pasture to another, for, as refugees, they had neither the political
    clout nor the title to the lands that welcomed them as daily laborers. 
    
    But, alas, there came on the scene, in the middle of the decade,
    and after the 4th of the many reorganizations and purges, a new
    trend, a decision that domestication of the cattle could not control
    the matter they would daily produce, and so, another experiment,
    harkening back to the days of G.Mendel, but really forged in the
    labs at Cold Spring Harbors, Genentech and BioGen, was begun. 
    
    No longer would domenstication suffice! Indeed, the vigor of
    hybridization (in biological terms) was viewed as no longer consistent
    with the single, unified view of the now stable world. No,
    hybridization was to be replace with a new approach to the
    species...all employees would be made homozygous with one another. In
    early '87, the technology for genome replacement was perfected. All
    that remains is to ensure a constant, consistent, and identical series
    of environmental experiences, both in its static components and in the
    interactions among the organisms. 
        
    Lo, behold, we have now laid the stage for the emegence of the unified
    gene pool! Banish the thought of a thought wave monitor. With
    homozygosity, there will be no need. The super race has been created!

    How soon we forget the lessons that our biological heritage provides
    ample example of: the better adapted we become to our current
    environment, the less capable we are of adapting to changes in the
    environment. The more specific we become to our niche, the more
    our species is at risk should the niche come under new ecological
    pressure. The more constant and controlled the environment, the
    less adaptable the species is to any other environment.
    
    The super race will perish under pressures of unanticipated changes.
    The environment will change in reaction to our attempts to affect
    it. And the next phase of rapid evolution and chaotic reorganization
    will commence, leading to the next plan for the super race, the
    next ascendent controlling species, the next generation of boat
    people and the new specializations and unique adaptations to the
    new niche.
    
    Plus ca' change, plus c'est la meme chose!

re .21

	Tom, what version of the VAX thought monitor are you running?
    I am getting error messages when I try to monitor your alphawaves...
    could it be that maybe you are an undomesticated survivor of the
    great purges?

						-DAV0

    i thot it was *great* work ;-)

.23>    Let us hope that the readers of this conference UNDERSTAND satire.
    
.23>    It's very easy to get labeled as negative and of having a negative
.23>    attitude when one engages in satire.
    
    Satire is far easier to understand than homozygosity, eugenics and
    hybrid vigor, unless you're a biologist, in which case satire is
    not in your daily lexicon. ;-)
    
    Does this mean that they're NOT working on this at Cold Springs
    Harbor and Genentech?
    
    Negative? Look at the CONCLUSION of the note on eugenics and whatever.
    Therein lies the reason for the continuing ferment. There will be
    no perfect order. The more we try to control and unify, the more
    likely we will not be able to. It's the classic dilemma facing a
    society that's into overcontrol in environment, biology or thought!