Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    
    	Hate is to Love as (the chinese concept) yin is to yang. You
    cant have one without the other and, in the most stable state, they
    are in balance. 
    
    	Joe Jas
    

        Take it from one who has hated much in his life, it does destroy
    the hating party as well as possibly the object of the hate. I think
    that normally there is a balance of love/hate in relationships.
    I truly loved my wife, but there were times that I had visions of
    leveling a 357  at her, she had the same feelings. I don't think
    you have to love someone before you hate them. take a woman who
    is brutally raped by a stranger, she never loved or knew him. I
    think that the worst hatred is the one that is born out of past
    love. The viscious relationships that can develope between two
    people after the breakup of a marriage or other deep love relation-
    ship.
        Why does hate destroy the hater, well in my case it happened
    many times. I had a close friend who really *purposely* did me
    in. I kept running into him and we'de wind up slugging it out 
    and doing all we could to ruin each other socially. I was obsessed
    with having the last say adn finishing him off. This tales large
    amounts of energy to maintain, it festers and engulfs the party.
        Finally I approached him and made the first move to bury the
    hatchet, he was shocked and broke down crying, then took a swing
    at me. Well after all the poison drained from the sore, we began
    talking again. It was a cleansing process and the feelings of
    intense hatred disappeared. The Bible does make a good point,
    Don't let the sun go down on your anger, resolve it, get it
    out in the open, lest it fester into smouldering hatred. Today I
    try not to hate, but there are plenty of bimbos out there just
    dieing to push it. I dunno, just my thought
    
    Ray
    
    

>    	Hate is to Love as (the chinese concept) yin is to yang. You
>    cant have one without the other and, in the most stable state, they
>    are in balance. 

	I, respectfully, disagree.

	Hate is not symmetrically parallel to love. (i.e. Hate <> ~Love)
	Love is much more than the opposite of hate.
	Because I believe the above is a dangerously seduction 
	rationalization I offer two arguments.

reason 1: 
 
        Love includes: (or at least is used to denote linguistically)

	infatuation
        lust 
        compassion
        devotion
        passion
	affection
        ...         

        Hate is not used to denote the opposite of all the above and 
        the many more connotations of love. 

reason 2:

	Love, especially in an eastern sense, is used as a term
        of mystical unity with either a Godlike force (Hinduism:
	the Upanishads) or unity with mankind (Buddhism). 

	Hatred does not imply the negation of the above though 
	may lead one to such an undesirable consquence.

	John (Compassion <> ~Hate)
  

Fire and Ice
by Robert Frost

Some say the world will end in fire.
Some say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire,
I hold with those who favor fire.

But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that, for destruction, ice
Is also great
And would suffice.

(this is from memory, sorry if I didn't get it perfect.)

One of the opinions regarding love (separate note - sorry, I can't remember
the author) is that love is an active promise that must be renewed
constantly. I think hatred is the same way. Anger can't last, and if your
partner in enmity doesn't reciprocate your feeling of hatred you'll soon run
out of reasons to continue to be angry.

Don.

    re: .6	Hatred needs constant renewal or it will fade
    
    That is absolutely not consistent with my observations.  From what
    I have seen, hatred is self feeding.  It bias the haters view of
    the world to insure that reasons to hate continue to flow in. I'm
    inclined to say that, if I have a reason for feeling very badly
    toward someone, then what I feel is anger rather than hatred, but
    that may be just semantics.
    

    I respectfully submit:  h**e is an extremely negative
    force, feeding the negative forces of the universe.
    Forgive me if this note would be more applicable to
    DEJAVU.  I was taught by a "higher being" to eliminate
    the word from my vocabulary.  It is a word that is 
    tossed around very casually, yet it generates and
    represents very negative feelings.  I can honestly
    say, after 8 years of not using that particular word
    (which I consider the only true profanity), I do not
    feel negative feelings as strongly.  If you do not
    use the word, you gradually reduce or eliminate the
    emotion. You, and the universe, are so much the better
    for that.  Conversely, I feel so much more positive, so
    much more loving these days.
    
    H**e is one word (the only word) I have forbidden my child
    to use.  I have explained to him why I do not want to hear
    that word from him.  
    
    "Guard your thoughts carefully, for they have lives of their
    own."
    
    

    Hatrid corrodes the vessel that contains it.
    
    When ever I found that I disliked someone to the degree that
    I would call the emotion hatrid, it became self-destructive
    both physcially and mentally
    (and had relatively little effect on the person I was upset
    with.)
    
    Forgiving the person and giving up the hatrid freed me from
    an incredible and painful burden.

        I, too, will respectfully disagree that a balance of love and
        hate is seither stable or desirable. Hatred is destructive to
        both the hater and the hated. It should be rejected. Love is
        very positive and returns more than it costs. It should be
        fosttured and nourished. 
        
        Anger is, so far as I can tell, unavoidable, but it needn't turn
        into or fuel hatred. When it arises it must be acknowledged
        and dealt with, but it must not be allowed to feed on itself
        nor to feed hatred.
        
        JimB. 

    re .11
    How nice a reply from the eagle, now I feel I'm really a noter
    :-).
    
    It wasn't that I can't handle it - I did handle it. I decided
    that it was much too personally desctructive and found ways to
    transmute it.
    
    My husband likens hatred (and I don't believe I misspelled it *three*
    times in that last note!) to manure. It isn't very useful if you
    hang on to it but if you turn it into the field and let it decompose
    it can eventually grow some good crops.
                                   
    Bonnie
          

A wierd colleque noticed some of the material on my screen and commented
that we should be thankful for people that hate us.  I asked him to 
explain and he said that being hated makes us more careful, more 
aware of our own feelings, and generally purifies us.  Further, he said,
the gift of hatred comes at a high cost to the giver, and it was rude to
accept it without appreciation.  Like I said, he is weird, but I sense a 
kernel of truth in that perspective.  It certainly seems like a better 
approach than returning the hatred in kind.  On the other hand, it seems
like masochism.  I'm not sure what I think of this - your opinion please? 

	re .1	This would look better in CLICHES.

	The Cause of Hate is Ignorance.

	As someone somewhere said: - The only sin is Ignorance.

	If we believe that - and why not, it reduces all sins to only one
	- then clearly that's where hate comes from.

	If anyone who hates someone tries to fully understand his/her actions
	and those of the other side then after a few moments/weeks/years/decades
	(whatever time it takes) the hate will dissolve along the way
	(or should we say - along The Way ).

	Prejudice also comes from ignorance but is obviously different from
	hate. Not much time should be needed to see that.

	Survival value of hate:-
	Speaking in general, anything which threatens our survival (physical,
	mental, our identity, etc...) would generate some hostile reactions
	in us.
	If you are in a position to do something about the threat, there is no
	reason for hate to enter the picture.
	However, if you can't/are unwilling to do anything, hate is a good
	emotion to push you in the right direction - either because you can't
	escape the threat or the person/animal/ET/etc. threatening you are
	object of your love, some sort of taboo or similar. Hate then can
	be used to overcome any such objections. That's probably why people
	link love and hate together. But hate is not a reversal of love but
	rather is needed to suppress/overcome it.

	From this you can see why it is destructive, because to feel
	hate we have to be somehow suppressing our actions(sometimes that
	may cause us less damage than letting go and suffer consequences).

	The real cure (if it is desired) is to try to understand both sides.

	The above would, I hope, explain why intensity of hate increases
	the closer the object of hate is to us - both in a social sense
	(e.g. wild vs. domestic animal or stranger vs. friend) and in
	a biological sense ( worm vs. dog ).

	We should not confuse fear and hate.
	Fear is negative in the sense that it causes us to retreat from
	the threat. Hate is positive in the sense that it makes us want
	to do something about the threat( I don't deny that it is a negative
	emotion, though).

    Without Hate, you would not know love.



	    -  Me.

    au contraire-I have never "hated" a child, much less
    my own son, yet I love him more than anything in this
    world.  Without the negative feelings, I love more
    fully and purely. Only negative input limits the positive
    feelings.

|  But it appears that within this file is about
|  the ONLY place where there are not people who find hate and intolerance
|  for <drunk-drivers, rapists, whatever> a perfectly natural "human" way to
|  relate to others.

I've noticed an interesting thing: contributors to this file IN THIS FILE
show remarkably little intolerance, hatred or bigotry IN THIS FILE (with
the possible exception of attitudes towards those people who stay home and 
become housewives or househusbands :-) ). 

 However, in other notesfiles, I see a disturbingly high level of intolerance.
It is interesting that things come out so much more reasonable in this file. Or
maybe it is because the intolerance (in other files) is not towards things
which matter to the human race (rapists, murderers, drunk-drivers, nuclear war)
but more to things which really don't matter to anyone in the long run. Things
like which team will win the World Series, what is the better VCR tape format,
which sort of car is best, are condos better than houses, what is the "best"
way to bring up children, what is a good place to work and many others of
similar information content. 
 I've seen (in other notesfiles) debates on these (and other) topics in which
the levels of hate displayed by the contributors is frightening. And no, I'm
not talking about SOAPBOX which has hate, bigotry and stupidity in its Charter!
It seems a little strange that supposedly intelligent people can show so much
intolerance about such trifles, especially when you come to this notes 
conference and people are congratulating each other on their lack of hatred. 

 Perhaps it is just that everyone is on their "best behaviour" in this 
notesfile.... (-:

			Nigel 

    I suspect that folks that choose to participate in this conference
    do so, at least in part, because of the low level of irrational
    flaming/intolerance/hatred, etc.  Further, I tend to suspect projection
    in the observation that participants are on their best behavior
    in this file.  Candidly, I skip  over irrational raving, and appreciate
    a conference where my time is not wasted with non-thought.

    Well said Bob.

    

I have just gone through those 27 replies, all dealing with
hatred. I just hated it.

Let's face it, hatered is good. It relieves, it purifies, it
releases. After hating for a while, one can be at peace with
oneself and the world. I love to hate.

It's true one must keep a close watch - keep it under control;
do not let it get the better of you. But, knowing THAT, already
guarantees control.

So, don't be shy, hate for a while; it'll do you a world of
good.

-- Ron

I couldn't disagree with you more.

You hate someone when you don't know or understand them.  It's easy to hate
someone that you don't know.  It's easy to kill someone that you don't know.
It's a lot harder to hate if you know and understand...

Maybe I am atypical, but there haven't been any people that I've hated, once
I've gotten to know them, and understand why why do what they do.  Fear, sorrow,
pity, etc, yes, but not hate.  But I could be wrong, I suppose; there is the
domestic violence hate, but I feel that at those points, there is not much
understanding taking place.

Jim. 

    
    Be carefull who you hate.  Hate binds you as tightly to a person
    as love does.
    
    Mary