Conference quark::human_relations-v1

anytime a human being goes looking for that person who will "complete"
the total "you" is looking for an object on which to obsess.  You cannot
have a long-term, healthy relationship until you are complete and
healthy yourself.  You must not look for others to make you feel OKAY..
you must feel okay enough to share your real self with someone.
The nicest person in the world won't make you feel okay if you don't
already feel okay...

I believe we put such a premium on romantic love that we force ourselves
into bad relationships because the idea of being without another one
long enough to get your center is so scary.

so, take a risk...the next time a relationship goes bad, DON'T go hunt
up another one right away....spend some time learning how nice (or not
nice ) you are and figure out how you can learn to be more attractive
to yourself - and you'll be that much more attractive to THEM...whoever
they are.       

>so, take a risk...the next time a relationship goes bad, DON'T go hunt
>up another one right away....spend some time learning how nice (or not
>nice ) you are and figure out how you can learn to be more attractive
>to yourself - and you'll be that much more attractive to THEM...whoever
>they are.       

Hmm I not only didn't go chase up someone else but I actively made an agreement
with myself that I was *not* going to get involved again for a while.  Not in a 
bitter way with any resentment but knowing I needed time to work things out for
myself and accept some of the worse feelings I'd been through with the last 
situation.   Suprisingly enough I've ended up involved with someone but it's 
sooo different when you know who you are (if not in the finest detail in enough 
detail and with a real enough view on life to carry on getting to know yourself)
and you are free to continue getting to know yourself at the same time as they 
are and you are them...    

Odd sensation it is meeting someone who is *genuinely* happy with you really 
being yourself (so many people want to and know it's right but take their fears
out on others by supressing them)   The freedom seems to stop obsessive 
behaviour being re-enforced which seems to happen to quite a few people quite 
a bit of the time.


BTW    Got an ISBN for it?



Jo

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				Steve






    I've had something/someone bugging me now for a long time. Reading .0
    made me stop and think, "Am I obsessive over someone?". Let me explain
    my situation and maybe someone could give me feedback. 
    
    I'll start by saying that I am married and have been for just over 2
    1/2 years and have a wonderful 1 year old daughter who means the world
    to me. A while back I met someone - just a couple of months before she
    herself was going to get married. We both knew each other's situation
    and yet we couldn't help ourselves. We had a brief fling which lasted
    on and off for about 4 or 5 months (yes, after she got married!). She
    then made up her mind that I wasn't worth risking everything for and it
    stopped. It took me a long time to get over this, in spite of loving my
    daughter more than anything, I just wanted to be with her. 
    
    I eventually learnt to accept things and we became close friends. Every
    now and then however, she stops being friends with me and ignores me. I
    think the basenote sums up my situation exactly. 
    
    >        If any attention is given to the obsessor, the obsessor is in 
    >        heaven. If ignored, the obsessor is in hell. 
    
    I do still want her, but I know I can't have her. maybe that's why I
    want her I don't know. Her friendship means a great deal to me and when
    I am being ignored I feel like everything is lost and I can't
    concentrate on things. A few months ago the same thing happened, and I
    took time away to think. I thought I had everything sorted out until I
    saw her again. Then all the old feelings returned but she started being
    friendly with me once more.
    
    I have three problems - probably more, maybe you can tell me about
    them. Firstly I can't get her out of my mind and it drives me crazy.
    Secondly, I can't speak to her. She won't listen. And lastly, I can
    never tell her how I really feel because I know she'll never speak to
    me again. 
    
    Maybe it'll pass again and she'll come round to being friends once
    more. Time will tell, but I can't go on like this. I have no idea what
    her feelings are towards me, but I get the feeling that ignoring me is
    her defense mechanism coming into play. 
    
    I guess the answer will be yes, but "Am I obsessive?" and if so, "What
    can I do?"
    

    
    if I were in your shoes, and she *really* wanted her marriage more than
    she wanted me, I'd completely disappear the relationship with her -
    cold turkey.  Counseling could help with this.
    
    It sounds like if you can't have it all, you can't stand to only have a
    little.  A little HURTS.  A little is like repeatedly ripping the scab
    off a wound.  I was getting obsessed with someone at one point and told
    him I didn't want to see him for a year so I could get my brain back
    together and focus coherently on my life - it was a big help.  We've
    managed to sustain an intermittent friendship since then, but it's only
    through diligent distance and mutual understanding that this works.....
    
    Having none will hurt like a sonovabitch, but at least the pain dulls
    over time.
    
    Of course, you could also both decide you're more important to one
    another than your marriages/families, but it doesn't sound like she's
    in that space (and it sounds like your child is very valuable to you).
    
    -Jody
    

I'm not sure I can answer your question about how you should decide if
you are obsessed or what you should do about it; but, your note raised
a few questions in my head that perhaps you should ask yourself.

First, I noticed that you didn't say anything about your wife or your
marriage, only your daughter.

Did this "fling" occur before or after you got married?

Does your wife know about it? If so, how does she feel about it?
If not, does she suspect?

Can you be satisfied with just being friends with this other woman or
even without seeing her at all any more?

How would your continued involvement in this relationship affect your
marriage and your relationship with your daughter? What are the
potential consequences (divorce and loss of custody)?

You've said that the other woman thought her marriage was more
important than your relationship with her. Do you want continue to
pursue this relationship at the risk of hurting her and her husband as
well as your wife and daughter?

What is it that is lacking in your relationship with your wife that
causes you to pursue this other woman?

Perhaps the answer to this last question is the most important and
could be used to initiate a discussion with your wife that might solve
any real underlying problem without the risks involved in pursuing the
relationship with this other woman.

Chuck

    RE: .3
    
    When you say, "I can't get her out of my mind," it leads me to think
    there may be obsession here. 
    
    The book recommends breaking off all contact with the person. 
    
    Yeah, I know. Pretty rough. 
    
    You feel you can innocently see someone and maintain a friendship, but
    it's rarely possible with obsessive love because actions (seeing the
    person), create feelings and memories, which lead to thoughts 
    (When will I see him/her again?), and the cycle keeps going. I can 
    vouch for this myself; I've been there.  
    
    I was listening to a talk show psychiatrist one time, and a caller
    called in and said he was going through a divorce and whenever he saw
    his soon-to-be-ex wife he just became unraveled. He was having these
    vivid dreams in which he was saving his wife from various scenarios of
    danger. The caller sounded miserable. 
    
    The psychiatrist recommended him cutting off *all* contact with his wife,
    short of contact as required (because of the divorce).
    
    The tired saying "Out of sight, out of mind" seems appropriate here.
    
    I wanted to stay friends with a woman I was in a relationship with, but
    because of my feelings and actions she told me it was not possible. It
    seemed harsh at the time, but I am beginning to see now that there is a
    kind of freedom in it, along with the loss. I have complied with her
    wishes and have not contacted her. I still think of her sometimes, 
    but certainly not so intensely and in time I'm sure this too will fade. 
    
    It's a loss - no doubt about it. I lost her a long time ago, though. 
    I just didn't accept it.    

    
    by the way, I assumed that the author of .3 was a man.
    I apologize if I was incorrect.....it could be either....
    
    I'd still suggest the quick, sudden pain of a fast break, to the slow
    wondering and waffling with the "maybe someday" friendship.....
    
    -Jody

       	
    	Re anon,
    
    >I have three problems -  Firstly I can't get her out of my mind and
    >it drives me crazy.
    
    	Yes, you can. You wrote about her here; didnt that ease things
    for you a bit? Is there anyone you can talk to about her, honestly
    and openly, who'll just listen to you and acknowledge what you're
    saying, without necessarily "giving advice" or "judging" your feelings?
    If you know someone you can trust, talk with them about it - just as
    you did here, just to talk about it.
    
    >Secondly, I can't speak to her. She won't listen. 
    
    	Well, there's a reason for that. She's made a decision for herself.
    You know exactly what that is too, because you wrote it down here.
    Perhaps you can make a decision to simply respect her decision from
    now on - no matter what. I think you'll find the answer to your
    problems is in your willingness to do exactly that.
    
    >And lastly, I can never tell her how I really feel because I know
    >she'll never speak to me again.
    
    	That's okay - you can always tell someone else how you really
    feel, just like you told your story here. You could symbollicly
    tell her how you feel, by writing it down explicitly on a sheet
    of paper. As long as you _get the feelings you have out of you_ in 
    some way, it will help. Counseling? You could tell the counselor 
    about it - amongst other things I'm sure.
    
    	There's different ceremonial things you can do with written
    feelings that will help you to let them go. You could burn the paper,
    and fling the ashes to the wind as you make your resolve. You could
    put it in an envelope and mail it to some address you've made up.
    Or, you could bury the envelope out in the woods somewhere - just
    dont bury it in *you*.
    
    	 Obsession, like other addictive qualities, is only as strong
    as it is secretive. Strength of will may have worked for your friend, 
    as she's evidently been able to put you and what you had together out 
    of her mind - perhaps while never telling anyone. Maybe you're not so 
    lucky - that's okay - and you need to get your thoughts and feelings 
    of her out of your brain first for you to be able to let them go. 
    
    	What you want to avoid is letting them build and build till one 
    day they become no longer just an "obsession", but rather an "action" -
    and you're *history* as far as a lot of things go, because you went 
    and did something really stupid - like suddenly told your wife you
    want a divorce because you "love this other woman" or whatever.
    
    	Joe 
    

    
    	The first note in this string talks about how the
    	book encourages the obsessor to focus their attention
    	on him or herself to discover what the obsessiveness is
    	really about. Perhaps it would be worth your while
    	to pick up this book and see where that takes you. 
    
    	Having been absessive with just about everything in my
    	life.. including relationships.. I find that when I abstain
    	from something, in the case of relationships, break contact
    	and stay out...all sorts of things come up for me. Usually
    	my obsessive behavior is covering something up..something
    	I don't want to deal with. Breaking the contact, otherwise
    	abstaining helps me to get in touch with what is really
    	bothering me. 
    
    	In any case..the book might be a good place to start ? 
    
    	peace
    	dotty

.5> First, I noticed that you didn't say anything about your wife or your
.5> marriage, only your daughter.
    
    I noticed that, too.

    Thank you for your responses. Just to answer some of your questions and
    fill you in a little more. I am male, the fling started after I was
    married - about two years after, and my feelings for my wife are
    "confused". She loves me more than anything and she'd be devastated if
    she found out what I'd done and what I am still thinking.
    
    From your replies, I guess I should just not see this girl who
    domindates my  thoughts. The problem is, I work with her so, short of
    changing jobs, I cannot avoid her. The problem is, when she's friends
    with me, then I'm happy. I'm  really happy and I've told her this. I am
    prepared to settle for this kind of friendship, but for some reason she
    just won't let it stay that way.
    
    I do have someone to talk to who I can confide in totally, and the girl
    involved has also spoken to this same person. It really does help to
    talk things through, but I find the effects are only short term.
    
    Maybe I'll try and find a copy of the book, only I'll have to hide it
    from my wife.