Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    I agree that you probably should get out of the relationship..no need
    to bring yourself down too.  But please don't sever ties so that she
    feels that she has lost everything and has no one.
    
    I went through a very hard time about three years ago, I was depressed
    for a long period of time (almost 2 years) and if it weren't for the
    people that stuck by me I don't think that I would ever have made it
    through that period.  I had almost struck bottom and without the help
    of a few very people I would probably either still be depressed, in a
    lonney bin or worse, I might not be here to say this to you.  
    I believed the worse in myself, had no faith in anything I did, said,
    Hated the way that I looked, the way that I dressed, the way that I
    was.  It was the most horrible time of my life.  
    
    If she is anything like me, she will not cling to you, will not hang
    around you all the time...There were times that I just NEEDED to know
    that there was someone that cared about me (even though at the time I
    just felt that they "tolerated" me).
    
    I sincerely hope that she can work through this, get help, do whatever
    it takes to start rising from the state of depression.  I know from
    experience that it is the most horrible way to feel.  I hope that I
    never have to live through that again.
    
    ~Linda~
    

A friend in need... 'nuff said.

-- Ron

    Since I've been in the same boat as you have, I feel I should be able 
    to say something of use.  
    
    First off, if the state of depression is sever enough, you should
    really incourage her to go to one of the 'combined' clinics for 
    mental health.  These have psychologist who deal with the emotional
    state and causes of the depression as well as phsychiatrists who 
    deal with the medical aspects of anti-depressive drugs.  Both work
    in tandum with each other (or are supposed to).  And if done proberly
    is a lot more effective then just seeing a counselor.  It's something 
    to consider.
    
    As was suggested before, don't be 'unaccessable' to her, if you need to 
    really get completely out of the relationship, it would be best to do 
    it slowly, cutting back on the amount of time you spend with her a
    little at a time.  
    
    But, ideally, the thing to do, is to figure out what's going on.  It 
    sounds to me, with what little you've given of her history and such,
    that her biggest problem is she's lonely.  She's in a location where 
    she knows nobody and has decided that it's because something is wrong 
    with her.  A viable solution to those feelings, is to get her out and 
    introduce her to people, help her to make some new friends.  Get some 
    other people to help occupy her free time besides and in addition to 
    yourself.  You might discover that as she developes more friendships 
    locally, she'll start losing this feeling of not fitting in.  
    
    Lonelyness is a terrible thing to be in a new place.  I've gone through 
    it several times and wouldn't wish it on anyone.  The advantage now is 
    that I finally learned that if you give it time and make a little 
    effort you do make friends.  
    
    FWIW
    Skip

    
    	Re .0 -
    
    	What you describe trully carries with it the so called "life
    damaging consequences". I heartily commend you on your decision to not 
    continue a romance/love relationship with her. It sounds like a heathy 
    decision on your part to me.
    
    	Spontaneous depression can simply be someone's *unresolved* emotional
    pain, grief over loss, or anger turned inward to themselves. That
    you say she "doesnt like herself" is very much a characteristic of
    an anger turned inward. This stuff usually is best worked in therapy
    and/or a group (social) recovery environment. It's too bad to hear
    that she has stopped and sees no value in it! :'(
    
    	I have personal experience with this. Some 10 years ago, I was
    in this relationship which seemed to be going well for the most
    part. I would be the depressed one, from time to time, and I even
    got to what was bothering me - the then recent death of my Mother
    - My girlfriend would wipe my tears and comfort me and all. But my
    depression got the best of us when she wanted to vacation together and
    I was just too "spontaneously depressed" and unmotivated to bother, so
    we ended up breaking up shortly afterward. I've still got this old
    printout from 4/9/82 indicating I was sitting in my office crying over
    it. It took my doing therapy to come to work through (some) my unresolved
    grief over my mother's death, as a big part of what was happening to me.
    
    	My other personal experience with this was about a year or two
    later, when I was seeing someone who I'd now describe as just chock-full
    of unresolved anger, grief and pain. I mean the writing was on the
    wall; this woman would drink alcoholically, listen to "sad songs
    say so much" and just cry and cry and cry and cry. So, what did
    I do? I quit therapy and got her to *live with me*. Then I asked her 
    to MARRY ME! (Guess that says a bit about where I was at then, doesnt 
    it?) Well, I wont even go into what happened, because it was a horror
    show, but save to say we ultimately broke up and went our seperate ways.

    	During both these episodes of my life, I had NO IDEA what was
    going on with me, them or between us. To my fortune, that's all changed
    for me today; I have what I consider a healthy relationship with a
    healthy person and we both own and work on things like our "unresolved
    emotional pain" - and on the relationship we have in our marriage. I
    owe this fortune in part to an openmindedness on my part, a lot of hard
    work and the desire for something better for myself than the life
    I'd been living.
    
    	It's so good to read that you've drawn a healthy boundary for
    yourself with this person. That is trully the only way you'd ever
    get her to change; change something about yourself, like your role
    in the relationship. It just might be the best thing for her to see;
    to have someone demonstrate a healthy boundary / role change - but 
    without the common attendant total abandonment of someone when people 
    "breakup". 
    
    	You can express that you're no longer interested in a romantic
    relationship with her - and that her refusal to address her issues
    around her constant depression is not acceptable to you, as the reason
    why - but you can still be there for her in a supportive role as
    a friend, which I'm sure she really needs more than anything now.
    
    	Hope this helps,
    
    	Joe

	Oh dear.  Your girlfriend sounds so like I was 3 years ago!
	All I can say is, the only person who can help her is herself.
	Yes, you need supportive friends, and hopefully you will be
	one for her, but the will to get whatever is depressing her
	has to come from within!  I've found that out the hard way!
	I don't think you can help her, you are already too close.  

	Good luck!

	Jules

	PS

	I had a very caring boyfriend who did everything in his power
	to help me.  Boy, did he put up with a lot!  He too eventually 
	had to get out, but him doing so did more for me than any amount 
	of "support" did!  I suppose I expected him to sort me out.  I'm 
	actually grateful that he left me!  He told me why and was very 
	sweet, but only now do I understand!!  I realize that now, but 
	at the time I hated him!  Only wish I could tell him that now, 
	but he chose not to be even a friend....!  Oh, well.  


	Julia

I agree with the other replies that it is a good decision for you to get out of
this relationship and that she must build up her self-esteem. I hope that you 
won't drop her completely though. If you like her, presumably you care for her. 
I would have thought it would mean a lot to her to have someone she knows
around especially if she is new to the area. If all she has around her
is rejection and strangers, it will be all the more difficult for her to
pull herself up. Set boundaries by all means but even a little caring will help.
It is important that you explain why you are ending the relationship (I don't
think gradually reducing your time with her will be any less painful for her) 
and that you can not live with her negativism, maybe that will help give her 
the incentive to *want* to change herself.

Linda

    re:.0
    
    I've been there.  It stinks.  Get out, and when you do, STAY OUT.
    
    I prefer quick, clean, IMMEDIATE breaks with people like that.  When 
    you try to do it gently, they can hold on even tighter and suck you right
    back in.  And I'm speaking from experience.
    
    Good luck...

    Re- break it off Quick.  
    
    Great attitude folks.... don't worry she doesn't know anyone in town
    has no close friends and when he breaks it off quick n' clean, she 
    will not be able to confide in anyone about how rotten he was, or good,
    or how anything else for that matter.  At that point, she'll REALLY be 
    alone, and if she IS psychotic-depressive, quite possibly will turn 
    toward suicide, or other self-destructive alternatives.  
    
    Before you break it off, encourage her to start seeing the pschologist/
    psychiatrist combination I'd described before.  That's not going to be 
    an easy task if she's decided they won't do her much good.  AS I said 
    before once she starts seeing them, gradually decrease the time you
    spend with her.  She has the psychologist to take that problem to and 
    discuss it with, she can start the healing processes for a breakup 
    as well as dealing with her other problems that cause the depression
    in the first place.  Meanwhile, you don't have to pick up a paper and 
    see where she set fire to her apartment complex, killing two children
    and a mother of 4.  Or look at the pretty ink splot in the center of 
    the page that's a picture of her remains after bungy jumping off a 
    bridge without a harness.  You'll be able to justify the 'bad feelings' 
    afterwards with the saying 'She was unstable, it wasn't my fault' but 
    it stays with you man.  It stays with you.  You can't help wonder if 
    perhaps you'd handled it a little different... maybe things would work
    out just a bit better then they did.
    
    Skip  

    
    
    re: 9 Very well put, Skip. Too bad more people don't have the
          same compassion.

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				Steve




 
    Dear Anon
    
    I'm going through exactly the same thing at the moment, only I'm the
    unhappy person.  I'm not as depressed as your girlfriend, but always
    feel up and  down, can start crying suddenly for no apparent reason,
    etc.
    
    I just finished a 5 yr relationship which ended badly, and I have been
    involved  with a guy I met a couple of years ago for the past couple of
    months.  As soon as I  split up my ex, my friend told me that he'd been
    wanting to go out with me for the  past year. 
    
    A couple of weeks ago he told me that he no longer wants to be
    involved.  I totally unexpected this and was really upset as we have
    always got on so well together.  He's one of the best things thats
    happened to me, he's been really good to me and for  me.  We always
    agreed that we would remain friends as we were friends before we 
    started going out. I was upset for a few days, but knew that he still
    cared and we  would continue to see each other.  Well yesterday it had
    been arranged that I would  go and see him for the first time since we
    broke up.  An hr before I was to arrive  at his place, he phoned me and
    told be not to bother coming round, we would talk on  the phone
    instead.  He now wants absolutely nothing to do with me, said it would 
    hurt more to be friends, and doesn't want to be involved with the
    problems that I've have, and that we're too different. This hurts more
    than him not wanting to go out with me. I've been a bit tearful, but am
    in so much shock that I feel too numb to break  down and have a good
    cry.
    
    I think you should tell her that you can't cope being involved with
    her,  but that you Do care and would like to remain friends, she sounds
    like she has a lot  to sort out. Don't break completely away from her,
    if she is anything like me it will  hurt her more if you do that.  She
    needs friends around her, especially if she is new to a city.  It
    sounds like she is trying to help herself by coming to a new town to
    make a new life for herself.  She needs all the support and love that
    can be  given to her.
    
    You're most welcome to contact me off line through the moderators.
    
    Regards
    
    

    Hi, me again.
    
    Actually, I know exactly where Mike is coming from in .8. It's going to
    be hard for me to just be her friend because I still am very physically
    attracted to her. The only surefire way for me to avoid temptation
    would be a "clean" break.
    
    But I care a lot for her, and I want to see her go through as little
    pain as possible, so I'm going to be her friend, and I'm going to
    restrain myself. I want to get her to join in my group of friends, and
    hopefully she'll fit in, and I'm going to try to get her to go back
    into therapy.
    
    I understand a lot of what she's going through; there have been lots of
    times when I've tried to fit into a new group of people. I'm a pretty
    shy person, and for me to actually make friends and feel comfortable in
    a new group probably takes six to nine months. During that time, I
    usually feel pretty lonely and inadequate and depressed myself. But the
    important thing to know, and for her to learn, is that that loneliness
    doesn't last forever.
    
    Anyway, thanks everyone for the advice.
    

    re:.9, .10
    
    Guys, I TRIED it the slow ("speaking from experience") way and the lesson
    I learned was that a slow, dragged out split isn't easy for either party.
    
    The depressed person becomes more and more desperate and you become more
    and more involved.

    I've been here too ... my ex was depressed and was on tranquilisers for
    6 months or more.
    
    I found that I was too close to really help.  Any time I offered help
    he saw it as a confirmation that I cared and that we would eventually
    make it as a couple.  I couldn't get him to understand that I could
    care for him but not want to have a realtionship.
    
    As other have said it really dragged out the process of splitting up
    and did him no favours.
    
    I was lucky, we had a set of friends that we both new well and I asked
    them to take on the 'job' of looking after him.  I then had to let go
    of that responsibility and stop worrying about him.
    
    If you can I would avoid pulling her too closely into your own circle
    of friends, but if she has any friends of her own ask them to help
    support her.
    
    I believe you are too close, but I would echo the sentiment of not just
    'dropping' her.
    
    
    Xtine
    
    ps. My ex is by all accounts (we no longer are in contact) getting on
    fine.  He has a new job, has learnt to drive, a new flat etc and is
    finally taking care of himself - however to do this he went "home" to
    surroundings where he had been happy beofre and had his own support
    system.  In the end he decided he needed that more than the well-paid
    job that he had in the City.