Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    I think the only way you can empower yourself is to learn why it is you
    have so much difficulty with same. Typically that is best accomplished
    in psychotherapy. One or more of the self-help groups might be useful
    as well.

>to him.  I am losing confidence in myself due to this indecision
>but I also can't decide to break it off.

Fear of the unknown?  Your current situation isn't good, but it is a known
situation.

Bob

    
    	If you feel there's a "time bomb" about to go off, take some action
    before "the bomb" takes it for you!
    
    	One of the most painful situations one can encounter in life
    is when "the bomb" does go off, as a solution to a situation like
    you've described.
    
    	Usually no one moves until the pain gets bad enough. If the
    bomb blows, the pain gets bad enough so that action *has* to be taken.
    
    	It can be a real messy, ugly way to get things moving. Stand
    up for the way things are and say "Look, we've got to get through
    this, one way or the other". 
    
    	I know, easier said than done. It'll take some real courage
    on your part.
    
    	Joe

    re.0 Maybe you feel powerless because you're looking at your situation
    as a whole. If, for instance, you contemplate divorce, the total
    situation seems enormous - getting a lawyer, court, new lifestyle,
    etc. DItto for staying in the relationship - making changes, 
    working out the issues, etc. 
    
    Why not try to break the two scenarios (go or stay) into lists
    of discrete steps. For each alternative, list _all_ the little
    steps, as many as you can think of. Leave space for more steps as 
    they become apparent. 
    
    Now, whatever you choose to do, you can take it in small steps.
    
    "Get a divorce" is an enormous, seemingly impossible step. "Find a 
    good lawyer", "Talk to lawyer" etc. are small and manageable.
    

	Below is a reply from the anonymous author
        -----------------------------------------------------------------
    
	Thank you for all the suggestions.

	re: the "time bomb"

	I completely agree with your opinions on this.  This is the
	most major reason that I am pushing myself to do something 
	soon.  Meanwhile, I'm praying alot and avoiding attractive
	men.

	re: breaking things into little pieces

	I like your suggestion and in a sense, I've already done
	all the little steps aside from finally being completely
	positive that it's over.  I've contacted lawyers: figured
	out finances: discovered a potential roommate: itemized
	everything in the house, (in hopes of making that process
	less painful) ...  I've even told my husband exactly what
	I'm thinking.  The only thing left is to be sure and that's
	the really hard part.


	My therapist suggested getting lots of "data" about our
	differing views on things like marriage, kids, religion, etc
	to use to back up my decision in my own mind.  I've done
	that and it just doesn't help.  I guess the bottom line is
	that I love him and he says I make him happy now but I'm
	just not happy.  So if I leave it's only to make myself happy
	which seems like a selfish reason.  Maybe if I wait, I'll eventually
	be happy.  To make things more difficult, we get along fairly
	well.  If we were brother and sister, we'd have the perfect
	relationship.



        

    What about a seperation?  I don't see why you have to get a divorce,
    just to move out and go on with life.

    
    Make a decision one way or another. My marriage drifted very much into
    the perfect brother/sister relationship, but mot much of a marriage. My
    wife was reasonably happy with this situation for years while the kids
    were young and nothing much changed in her day-to-day life. Not sorting
    out the problems and putting off decisions just gets you all bitter and
    twisted later on, whether you then decide to stay together and try to
    sort things out or leave. Think hard - be positive - make a decision
    while you're at least still friends.
    
    Steve

    Having just come out of divorce after seven years of marriage,
    I can understand where you are at.  "Known awful" is better than
    "unknown awful".  We separated once, went through 9 months of 
    separate and marital counseling, moved back in and said if
    we drifted apart again, that was it.  We did.  We were never
    that compatible to begin with.  I initiated the divorce, he 
    didn't understand at first, now he does and thanks me for
    making him see that we both deserved more than we had.  It
    hasn't been easy, but I am comfortable with myself and my life
    for the first time in years.  And that is a good feeling.
    
    Mary-Michael

    Hi all.  Sorry I've taken so long to reply.  I've been in training
    and working hard.  The couple of times I did log into HR, I didn't
    notice anyone had added to my note.  Thanks for all the advice.
    
    Well, things are pretty weird now.  I basically decided that my
    husband and I are not meant to be together.  However, every lawyer
    I contacted wants $1000 minimum for a retainer!  We don't have that
    money.  We still owe for last years taxes!  So I realized that the 
    smartest, most logical thing is to stay put for 3-6 months until 
    we can pay off the government and save about $2000 dollars, (to pay
    for the whole procedure and 1 months security deposit for my husband).
    
    The last time my husband and I talked about the issue of our marriage
    was probably a month ago.  The status at that time was that I was
    re-evaluating our marriage.  (Sounds cruel, I know, but I was not the
    first partner to do this.)  He has not asked, nor have I said,
    what conclusions I have reached.  However, in the past our limited
    love life was because of his lack of interest.  Well for the first
    time in my life, I would be thrilled to be completely left alone.
    The poor guy can't figure out what happened.  He went from complaining
    that I was too aggressive to asking me if I'm sick.  Actually the whole
    thought makes me nausous, so that's not far from the truth.  I tried
    to explain to him that he finally got what he wanted.  (that didn't go
    over real well.)  Aside from that, we're getting along quite well.
    
    On the good side, I am also not attracted to other men very much
    anymore.  I went on a weekend vaction with women friends and had no
    problems what-so-ever being completely celebate.   (My husband really
    wanted me to go on that.  He thought I'd come back much happier.)
    
    I thought I'd let you all know what was going on, since you'd been
    so helpful.
    

    Your situation sounds very similar to my own.  My husband and I realize
    we are not meant to be together long term either, and have decided to
    divorce.  This was more his decision than mine, but I do realize in the
    end it will be for the best.  We love each other as people and friends,
    and actually get along quite well as housemates.  Our situation is such
    that we own property together, neither of which we can afford to keep
    alone.  I saw a lawyer a few weeks ago who suggested I sign over my
    half to him, and find rental property on my own.  He also saw a lawyer
    who thought my lawyer made a reasonable suggestion and advised he opt
    for it.  (Our condo has depreciated by about $20K, so there is no way
    we can sell it at the present time and incur that loss.)  I am
    currently searching for a place to rent and he is trying to find a
    roommate.  Then, we will see one lawyer to work out the separation
    agreement and file for divorce.  Hopefully it won't take more than a
    few months.
    
    Where are you located?  I am in MA, and the lawyer I saw quoted a
    ballpark figure of $1100 with $500 for a retainer.  I think if you look
    hard enough you can find someone who won't ask for a $1000 retainer
    fee.
    
    Feel free to contact me by mail if you'd like more information.
    
    -Roberta
    
    

    in re .9
    
    My ex and I went to a mediation lawyer, and the base fee was
    about half of what you are asked for a retainer. If you have
    everything worked out in advance you can actually file for
    a divorce on your own, or only pay a lawyer a minimal amount
    to check over your agreement to be sure it is reasonable.
    
    The large fees are based on contested divorces.
    
    Bonnie

    I know someone who did that too Bonnie....it worked out ALOT cheaper.
    
    Lynne
    

    If you are not at war with each other and can work out your own
    agreement, you can save a *lot* of money. When my ex and I divorced
    about 4 years ago the cost breakdown was:

	$170.00 for one hour to go over the papers with a divorce mediator.
	$110.00 to file for divorce.
         $20.00 to have lunch together after our court appearance.
        -------
	$300.00 total cost ($150 each)

    Rick