Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    Because it makes us feel humble?  Because the attention is focused on
    us directly?  Because we aren't conditioned for things like this? 
    Because it brings up feelings of being indebted to the other person?
    
    Karen

    
    
    
       some folks are just MORE comfortable GIVING than they are
       receiving....
    
       my (unasked for) advice to you is to sit back and relax and
       enjoy and appreciate and bask in what SHOULD be a warm and 
       fuzzy kinda feeling.
    
       After all, what goes around... COMES BACK!       %^)
    
       aw

>     why is it that though I LOVE doing nice things for people, I HATE
>     it when someone does something nice for me, ESPECIALLY if it
>     involves a surprise?  
    
    I sometimes feel that way too... but usually because I think 
    someone's trying to get something out of me.  (being a little 
    paranoid and a lot cynical doesn't help this one bit!)  I suppose 
    it's better than EXPECTING (or worse yet, demanding) people to
    do nice things for me, right? :-)
    

    /Mitch.
    

Many of us were raised under the "Protestant Work Ethic" and "Rugged
Individualism" influences.  We were never taught how to accept a gift
graciously.  Eventually, we recognize, as you have, that something is wrong.
It takes some unlearning and relearning to change.

fwiw,

Dick 

Fear of being obligated to more than a simple "Thank you"?

    
    You're more comfortable being a people pleaser.  Your ego is being
    served by a low self-esteem and you're more comfortable doing for
    others than having someone do for you (since you really don't feel you
    deserve it anyway).
    
    Don't take any of this as true - it's just my "arm chair psychology"
    taking over!!!!
    
    

    I feel the same way much of the time. It's hard to accept gifts. It's
    equally hard to accept help from others. I'm learning to change. I've
    found to many wonderful people out there who want to let me know that
    they care and that they'll do something more then just say "I care".
    
    Help is the hardest to accept. I've always felt that if I can't do it
    myself, the I've failed in some way. Changing this attitude also. 
    
    I have started telling myself that it's OK to accept gifts without
    obligation to return. It's all right to ask for help when you need it
    or don't understand something. No one that's worth knowing will think
    any less of you. We all need aid now and then. We all need little
    surprizes now and then. 
    
    Phil(who as been described as: "If I were drowning and someone came up
    and offered me a life preserver, I'd spit in their eye.")

       I agree...with most...especially .2 and .5 and the synergy in .7.
       It *is* harder to receive than to give.  Contrary to the popular
    notion that it's better to give than to receive, it is important to
    learn how to receive.  (Receiving is not the same thing as *taking*,
    by the way.)  
       There are lots of payoffs in NOT receiving.  For one, when we give
    we can martyr ourselves to the giving.  We can nobilize our
    "sacrifice," we can feel superior, we can feel that we've done our
    duty.  On the other hand, IF THOSE (and similar) beliefs ARE HELD,
    then it MUST be the case that if we are on the RECEIVING end,
    then we are, by definition and extension, inferior, innoble, unable
    to perform our duty, etc.  In other words, we would lose our
    superior position.  What this means is that the reasons for giving
    have to be genuine, and not artificial as the examples I suggested.
    What it also means is that if those are the beliefs and attitudes
    we hold we will disdain receiving...but notice something:  EARNING
    is not the same as receiving.  EARNING would be okay, since it would
    be done without obligation...receiving is done WITHOUT obligation and
    would therefore be done under "duress."  It would be uncomfortable.
        I would suggest that for someone who is aware of their difficulty
    with receiving it would be wise to first look at how they give and
    why...and then to work on their beliefs that keep them from feeling
    that it's okay to deserve "the gifts of the universe."  Why is it
    that the individual doesn't feel that they deserve?  Why do they feel
    they must be obligated?  What (as .5 stated) are the responsibilities
    in receiving?  Why is it so hard to let one's gratitude be enough?
    Why would there be guilt (and therefore anger) in receiving without
    obligation?  
        Good question...and worthy of introspection...
    
    Frederick
    

There are many situations in life where you can not "repay" an individual
for what they give you.  This may be due to time, resources, the type of
relationship.  So you say thanks.  And I try to pass whatever I have
received on to the next deserving individual whenever I get an opportunity.

    Gosh, can I relate.  I feel so guilty and obligated for some reason. 
    But yet I will bend over backwards for people all the time and out of
    the good of my heart -- NOT trying to collect favors.
    
    Why is that????
    
    Tammi

    Being a Scot I have very little trouble in accepting gifts. Now giving
    them, ah well that's another matter.

    Jamie.

    re: .11 (Jamie)
    
         You sure get off on stereotypes, don't you?  Seems to me
    you're a walking billboard for judgmentalness.
    
         The catch, for those who may have missed it, and this includes
    Jamie, is to both give and receive...both with freedom, responsibility,
    integrity and gratitude.
    
    Frederick
    

    Sorry Frederick, it is not in my nature to part with things. I am
    basically a squirrel, I hoard things.

    Jamie.

    re: .13 (Jamie)
    
         ...like nuts?
    
    ;-)
    Frederick
    

    
    	Here's an "armchair analysis". It has to do with control. When
    you're doing the giving, you're at the helm, you're in control
    of what's happening.
    
    	When you walk in the door, the lights go on and everyone
    yells "*SUPRISE!!*" - and there's a cake and a table full of
    presents and a room full of people - you're hardly "in control"!
    You're on somebody else's program...
    
    	Some people cant stand to be out of control. That has to do
    with ego-centricity; the fact the one's ego cant tolerate revelations
    of it's own true powerlessness...over much of anything. The behavior
    that follows is that of trying to control everyone and everything
    happening in one's life. The root of the ego-centricity is probably
    intense unexpressed emotions, such as pain and sorrow.
    
    	Having a "hateful" response to recieving a gift or suprise party
    is one way to control everyone/everything. That will be noted on
    some level and next year, you wont get a suprise, which will suit the 
    ego just fine. Your response changed another's perception and you 
    controlled your life's scope toward "No suprises for me! :'( ".
    
    	Hope this helps.
    
    	Joe

    
    
    re .15
    
    Wow..
    
    good insight....I'll have to give your input alot of thought...you're
    right on the point that I HATE NOT being in control....I HATE when
    decisions are made AROUND me that affect me, and I HATE not being "in
    the know" of things going on....
    
    you're right..
    
    repressed feelings of pain and sorrow?  hum...I'll give that some 
    thought too...
    
    But I KNOW that I've felt this way since I was very young....when I was
    14 I got a 10 speed for passing whatever grade it was, and it was
    given as a surprise...I remember being angry...and not knowing how to
    react. I remember just getting on the bike and driving off...
    I think I hate the thought of everyone looking at me waiting to see my
    spontanious reaction to 'the surprise'. ..
    
    good things to ponder.
    
    Cathy
    

    Well Frederick, I must admit that I do seem to attract them, but I
    wouldn't say that I actively collected them.

    Jamie.

    ...just a couple of ramblings...
    
    As a part-time entertainer in a band, it's my JOB to be nice to people
    and to make them glad they came to hear our band, so I'm pretty highly
    conditioned to be naturally friendly and outgoing.  And I enjoy making
    people feel good.  By the same token, if I go listen to another band
    and they're really entertaining the crowd as well, I feel that, in some
    small way, they're being nice to me.  I enjoy that also.
    
    If someone at work buys me a cup of coffee, my automatic reaction is
    not "Is there some ulterior motive at work here?" but "Thank you - I'll
    buy YOU one next time."
    
    I have no trouble accepting kindness from anyone, since I know that it
    is a decidedly rare commodity - outside this notefile, of course! ;^)
    Nor do I have trouble giving it.
    
    I suppose that it is not a question of "being in control" for me but it
    is the fact that I have enough control over myself that I don't mind
    relinquishing it for a moment.  So I guess I'll just leave it with
    "Why ask why?" and go on enjoying life.
    
    Does this make any sense?  Oh well :^]
    
    						--Eric--

>>    Does this make any sense?  Oh well :^]

	Yes, Eric it makes alot of sense...

	oh, and thank you for entering that...

	happy holidays,

	Mikki	B^)

    
    Control and people-pleasing - I spent (spend) a lot of time doing this
    and not allowing anyone to reciprocate.  This can make friendships
    very onesided.  Letting go of the control is really tough.
    
    Nowadays I try to remind myself that asking for help (or accepting
    the kind acts of others) gives the other fellow a chance to experience
    the same "up" that I get doing for others.  And life is a lot less
    stressful.
    
    clb
    
    
    
    

    
    Life is never one sided... it is GIVE and TAKE
    
    that's what makes it great (for everybody)!
    
    Cheers! Ana
    

    
    	re .16, Cathy.
    
    	Thank-you.
    
    	I thought of your note when "America's funniest people on
    home videos" (et al) was on, and showed a young woman getting a *car* 
    as a suprise. Her reaction made prime-time TV...she was like jumping
    all over the place.
    
    	I think it's sort of manipulative to extract that kind of reaction
    from someone by staging a suprise like that. One has to ask, just
    who's "getting the charge" here - the person who's been suprised or the
    person doing the suprizing? Obviously, to make it on TV, the reaction
    of the suprisee was quite delightful to observe.
    
    	In other words, to the parents giving the gift, perhaps they
    couldnt feel anything by just giving her the car, they needed
    to see this *stupendous reaction* in order to feel good about it. 
    So they staged it as a suprise. In this case, it's debatable whether 
    the gift was given so that the person receiving it could feel good, 
    or it was given more so that the person doing the giving could 
    feel good - *at the expense of the person receiving it*.
    
    Maybe you knew, at some level, whenever your gifts were given in the
    context of a suprise, that the giving was actually more for them than
    it was for you. You were perhaps angry over this; that what they
    really cared for was *how your reaction would make them feel*. Maybe
    you were just sick and tired of taking care of your parents emotions
    - again. Your "riding off" was in essance saying "take responsibility 
    for your own damn emotions...I'm not going to do it for you this time!" 
    
    	Again, hope this helps.
    
    	Joe

    
     The eskimoes put it more bluntly - "Gifts make dogs"
    
    

Not having read the complete string I may be repeating a previous 
reply...

I asked a psychologist the same question posed in the base note and
was surprised at the reply. It turns out that people that resent
gifts (especially unexpected ones) tend to have a strong, rigid and
independent personality. They resent the loss of control implied by
the gift. 

I knew you wouldn't like this answer. I wasn't thrilled with it 
either...

-- Ron

    
    .25
    
    actually, it sounds like a reasonable explanation to me. 
    

     re .22 (just a part)
>    Maybe you knew, at some level, whenever your gifts were given in the
>    context of a suprise, that the giving was actually more for them than
>    it was for you.
      Yes, that is exactly where the problem lies. There are two sides to a
      transaction. The giving and the getting. Both parts are pleasureable in
      different ways. If a giver refuses to be a getter then they refuse to
      allow the other party to enjoy the pleasure which they so much enjoy. I
      think that .0 declared that they enjoy giving.?

      My experience with givers who refuse to be getters is that one day
      either a completely unreasonable demand is made.. like a godfather calling
      his favour home or a totally unexplained outburst of "after all I have
      done for **them**".  In either case I find that over givers are to be
      avoided just as vigorously as spongers.
      There should be a comfortable balance in any healthy relationship where
      "getter".
      Rgds,
      

>     The eskimoes put it more bluntly - "Gifts make dogs"
    
    This saying refers to the prized Eskimo birthday gift, a pair of
    huskies.
    
    Ray

    re:.0

    Because then you feel like you owe them something in return?

    Some folks dont like to be in the "limelight" and like doing for others
    more!
    
    
    Lynne :-)

    my speculation...
    
    Gift giving can be a way of 'buying' approval. A way of saying 'please
    like me'
    Receiving gifts can be an affirmation of approval, a way of the
    receiver 'hearing' "I like you, you are a good person, you deserve to
    be treated well, here is a gift to show how much I think of you."
    
    The reluctant gift receiver may not feel worthy of that approval. 
    The reluctant gift receiver may also be feeling "there is no need for
    YOU to buy MY approval, you already have it. 
    And you can't show me your approval, cuz I don't deserve it.