Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    It seems like every year the market gets more and more flooded with
    college graduates, so employers have their pick and they can be very
    selective.  Even with the recession which makes it tough, more and more
    kids every year graduate from college so this makes trying to get a job
    tougher.
    
    I graduated from Worcester State College in 1985 with a degree in
    Media.  I had three TV Production internships and was at the top of my
    class in my major.  I really thought once I got that diploma,
    employers would be knocking my door down. It was not the case! (Well
    the field that I went in is very tough to break into....but I do love
    it!).  I did have a job at a TV Station but it was 3rd shift, and I
    bailed out.
    
    My suggestion to all the grads is not to give up and send out resumes
    to every possible company that is of interest and be super persistant. 
    That is how I got my first job in media.
    
    With the economy so down, it seems like they will be taking anything
    they can get just to earn a few bucks.  
    
    
    The job I am in now, the closest I get to my media major is making
    slide transparencies on the system and going to the "Media Room" to 
    make copies ;->.
    
    
    Lynne 

    
    When I graduated from college in 1982, things were really slow in the
    electronics industry. Most companies had hiring freezes on, others
    would put an add on the paper and get about 250 resumes for one
    position. And then take somebody with a BS in engineering for a
    technician job.
    
    I was in Vermont at the time. All of my friends I graduated with (From
    Devry in Columbus , ohio) were scaterred thru pennsylvania, ohio,
    michigan, and indiana.....They were all experiencing the problems I
    was.
    
    What I did was stayed very hungry. Most of my fellow graduates went
    back to the jobs they had in High School. I was determained not to do
    that. So I moved down to Long Island, and started working in a small
    company, as a tech for $3.50 an hour. I was peanuts for pay, but I was
    in the industry and didnt really care, I got by. And my first company
    was to a technician, what M*A*S*H was to a doctor, the battlefield. But
    I got great experience, and worked in a couple of different electronics
    companies before coming to DEC.
    
    That first company has set the pace for the rest of my life. It was
    definitely the bottom of the latter .When I started school they said My
    first job would make me about 14k a year. I started at about 8k, but I
    wasn't going to make Pizza after graduating from Devry.
    
    My advice to the entry level worker is to stay *very* hungry for what
    you want your career to be, you will always need to feed off of that
    hunger when switching companies. And *DON'T* be afraid to leave your
    hometown and your family, otherwise you'll be spinning Pizza.
    Parents with sons and daughters with this problem should support them
    if they want to move away to find work in there field, in another state.
    
    I swear I could write a book about this subject, and what I have been
    thru,
    
    Albert 
    

    Re:2
    
    
    You are right, it is a rocky road and they do start you off with
    'peanuts for pay'.  What I was making in my field was not much more
    then you can make at McDonalds flipping burgers, and for this job you
    had to be a college graduate!  If you keep on pushing you will get what
    you want.  I am a temp and once the economy picks up I am going to
    start pushing again, I am also going to take some art classes in the
    fall, so I will have something else to fall back on if I dont get
    anything in the media.
    
    You are right, you have to take the initiate and be brave and move away
    where the jobs are.  Unfortunalty I am a wimp in that department ;-)!
    
    
    
    Lynne

    Forgive me if this is insufficiently sympathetic. 
    
    One solution is to study something (and acquire experience doing while
    still in college) for which THERE IS DEMAND! Want to pick a college
    major? Pick up the Sunday want-ads and do a count! If you find a single
    two-line ad in the back which MAY be related to your proposed field of
    study, pick a new field. A good field to pick is that for which you see
    the most demand.
    
    A related idea is pick a profession for which education presents a
    barrier to entry. A "business degree" followed by an attempt at selling
    real estate suffers because all your competing brokers need to qualify
    for the job is a weekend-course and passing the broker's exam. Law
    school is slightly better, because of the bar exam, but it's not TOO
    much better because it's cheap and lucrative to set up a law school,
    and law is the default "next choice" for all the NIKE's out there.
    
    Engineering, computer science, architecture, and pharmacy are all
    fields where a particular AND DIFFICULT undergraduate major is
    necessary to practice the profession (well, computer science may be a
    reach... but ever less so). "Difficult" means "barrier to entry" means
    not everyone and their sibling is in the business, so someone might be
    willing to pay you to do it!
    
    No offense, -1, but taking art classes to have a backup is like
    wearing a snorkel in case your parachute doesn't open. "Starving
    artist" is redundant, right? If you want to be an artist, an actress, a
    rock'n'roll star, and/or a novelist... then get a job that pays the
    bills and pursue that other stuff in your spare time. My brother-in-law
    is a petroleum engineer who fills his house with his oil/acrylic
    paintings... and doesn't suffer the usual artist's dilemma: if you're
    making art to meet the mortgage, pretty soon you're into mass
    production and then it's no longer art.
    
    I have a lot of energy around this topic because my eldest daughter is
    convinced she will be the next Madonna. She has NONE of the
    qualifications -- my daughter's singing voice is excellent :) -- but
    nonetheless she's determined to spend a ridiculous amount of her
    parent's money pursuing that goal in college. A total waste, IMO.
    
    I suppose I'm also fired up because I *always* made decisions about
    majors and courses and degrees based on employability. These people who
    spend four years taking the fun stuff (literature, communications) are
    shocked when they aren't handed a job? Get real.
    
    - Hoyt

    Re:4
    
    I have always been very creative since I was a child. Teachers noticed
    it and notified my parents many times to send me to special art
    classes outside the public school system. If you are born with artistic
    talents why not use them?  Yes I heard of the term "Starving
    Artist"......but I dont think the people that do graphics or other
    artistic related jobs in DEC are starving.  
    
    When you are a high school kid you don't have the sense to pick up the
    want ads and pick out the common field of interest.  I kick myself in
    the butt for not majoring in computer science where at the time I
    graduated jobs were pretty abundant.  
    
    You have to pick a field that you are going to be happy with for the
    rest of your life.  Dont forget you are going to be doing it day after
    day..... 
    
    
    

    
    RE:.4
    
    Dude, 
    
    I choose electronics in high school, the field is obviously excellent
    for employment, and I *still* had a hellava time breaking in. I my mind
    if tyou dont have alot of drive *along* with common sense, you better
    start praying you hit the lottery cause it can be a jungle out there!
    
    
    Al

    
    I got out of grad school with a MA in English right in the middle
    of the 74-75 recession and moved to the Washington DC area.  Mornings
    were spent working at McDonald's and afternoons were spent peddling
    resumes.  While carrying some extra boxes out to someone's car, I
    mentioned that I was on the lookout for a job.  The person had a friend
    who opened up an employment agency the week before.  Although the
    agency didn't find me a job, I met someone in the waiting room who
    suggested I try a certain company.  I sent them a resume, went to
    an interview, and... the job got axed because of funding cuts.
    But, I had enough of an interview to fix myself in the interviewer's
    mind.  (His favorite charity was a sheltered workshop -- I'd worked
    at one two years before.)  Another job came up and I got it.
    The scribbling has been going on for 15 years.
    
    What's the point?  Never stop looking.  A lot of the good leads for
    first jobs come from conversations, questions, and personal
    connections.  Let's face it, all I had to sell was a personality
    and a reasonably empty brain ready to soak up a profession... 8^)
    
    As to demand, don't sell the non-technical disciplines short, just
    find a way to use them in a high-demand field.  As a writer, I have
    a lot of flexibility -- technical writing is only part of the story.
    In fact, during a full-blown computer industry recession, I probably
    have more choices than a lot of the engineers I work with.
    One friend of mine has an astonishing resume that includes writing
    for a major Chicago hospital, a factory automation firm, an ad agency,
    and a marketing cousulting firm.  She's an energetic whirlwind with
    a personality that could charm the spots off a leopard.
    
    Ron

The demand for people in electronics is dying off here (I did Electrical
Engineering, specifically in Digital Electronics). I applied for a couple of
jobs which were in electronics, but didn't get them/didn't really want them. I
didn't hesitate to take this job - software engineering - and I consider
myself somewhat lucky to have it.

I now live on the Gold Coast, Australia, 50m from the beach, own a car,
and live comfortably on a high-but-not-really-high (for my age) salary.
(The point being that this is a good place to live... I could demand a higher
salary if I was out in the middle of nowhere).

Recently one of my best friends asked me when I was going to stop drifting.

Are people born with drive? Or is it somewhere within me, where it will
surface when/if I need it? Sometimes I envy people who strive to achieve.

    Those selfsame people who strive to achieve tend to get ulcers and have 
    a shorter life expectancy.
    
    I've always felt that I only needed to strive hard enough to meet my
    needs.  So long as I can cover my expensess, pay my bills and sock away 
    a little for a rainy day... why do I need to push myself for a higher
    paying higher tension filled job?
    
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