Conference quark::human_relations-v1

	Yes, a lot of people pay their bills by the due date.  I don't think
I've paid more than a total of $20 in interest in the 12 years I've had a 
credit card, and most of that was when I was in college and made a majority of 
my money during the summer.  Charge Christmas and finish paying it off in
June.

	I always float my bills to as close to the due date as possible.  Might
as well use someone elses money for as long as you can.  "Payment on receipt"
bills get lumped in with the regular ones and payed when the next check
writing session comes around.  Remember, most places work on a 30 day billing 
cycle, and "on receipt", or not, they won't begin to bug you until 30 days
after the statement date.

	If you're really in trouble, the best thing to do is prioritize your
bills.  Some things shouldn't ever be screwed with - rent/mortgage, insurance,
things like that.  If you can't pay the bill in full, call and try to work
out a plan.  Many utilities offer budget billing to spread out the high costs
in the winter.  Most places would rather receive small payments spread over 
time rather than never get paid. (This may be especially true for the mdical
bill.)

	Stop charging.  I personally believe that the only reason to have a 
credit card is to prevent you from having to carry cash and to use someone
else's money for 30 days.  My rule is, if you can't afford to pay it off, when
the bill comes in, you can't afford it at all.  The only exception I would make
to that is disasters - charge a new furnace vs. freezing, or major car repairs,
for example.  Otherwise, know what you can afford.

	There are places to get help.  I'm not sure if EAP offers anything 
along these lines.  You need to work out a budget, and stick to it.

	Good luck.

						--D

    Yes, bill get paid on time.
    I only think of a credit card as strictly  severe "emergency", and as
    such, I've never used it, yet... I stick to what I can afford, never
    buy things I don't need, and I always "save" a certain amount every
    week and put it aside "for emergencies" like I forgot to put gas in the
    car... gee, I don't have a penny on me! (Oh, yes I do!) Mortgage and
    insurance deducted from weekly paycheck helps, also income tax, grocery
    shopping, (I avoid brand names like crazy, you "pay" for all the TV
    advertisements et al) I stick to fresh items, on sale items, and things
    like that.
    I started saving very young, had my first "savings" account in a bank
    at age 7, (went once a month or two with my piggy bank coins and felt
    proud of the modest figures in the saving book) I purchased my first
    plane trip to the capital at 13, and paid cash for the round trip all
    by myself...(I never forgot that wonderful trip).  I ALWAYS saved a
    small amount of money regardles income and put it in the bank, and
    believe me, up to today, I've never been "broke" always had an amount
    in a bank book I could rely on... 
    It is hard not to buy when you have a little piece of plastic that
    produces instant cash, but that cash has to be PAID BACK... try to
    create a budget and stick to that budget and resist, as much as you
    can, using the credit card.  It will help you to stretch your current
    amount to the next paycheck or to wait a bit till you get it...
    A good monetary planning can do wonders for anybody who uses it.
    
    Lots of luck, Ana
    

    Well, there's really two separate issues here:  the first is, "What
    kind of trouble can I get in if I pay bills late", and the second is,
    "How do I deal with the stress of tight finances"?
    
    Taking these in order:  What kind of trouble will you get in if you
    don't make the due date?  FOR THE MOST PART, not much.  Companies
    do this all the time... good accounts payable folks KNOW how long
    they can REALLY string along a creditor, printed due dates
    notwithstanding.  If you're a company managing millions of dollars
    worth of payables, every day you keep your money in YOUR bank account
    is that much more interest you're earning.  At passbook rates, a days'
    worth of interest on a million dollars is $136.90; it adds up after
    a while.
    
    Okay; so we know what happens with companies... what about individuals?
    We know they're treated differently; companies very seldom have the
    repo man show up at the door.  In any case, be aware that credit
    bureaus only report delinquent payments after 30 days; this means that
    even if your invoice says "net 15 days" or "due on receipt", in reality
    your credit record will remain clean as long as you cough it up within
    30 days.
    
    Just to show you how far you can go and still stay out of trouble,
    here's a real-world case:  I'm currently trying to get some money out
    of a contractor who worked on my house.  I'll skip the details, but
    suffice it to say that I fired him after the first day because his
    techniques were unsuitable for my house.  I had paid him a deposit, and
    was willing to pay him for the work he had done, but no more.  We BOTH
    agreed that I should get half my deposit back.  He paid me with a
    rubber check.  That was 18 months ago.  I asked him for the money, had
    my lawyer ask him for the money, took him to small claims court, had
    two court dates which he never showed up for... and still no money.
    Talked to a guy at a tool store about him... turns out he's known for
    being a professional deadbeat.
    
    Anyhow, the point of all this is that it turns out that if you really
    WANT to be a deadbeat, you can get away with an AWFUL lot before 
    anyone can REALLY do anything to you.  If you pay your bills within
    30-60 days or so nobody will bat an eyelash... compared to the horror
    stories that any creditor can tell you, a person who regularly pays
    only a little late is a godsend...
    
    There ARE exceptions to this:  I discovered once that insurance
    companies are EXTREMELY particular about being paid on time.  I had
    mailed my auto insurance premium ON the due date, which means it
    arrived at the insurance company a couple of days later.  A few days
    later I received a cancellation notice in the mail, followed a day or
    so later by a reinstatement notice.  In other words, your insurance can
    be cancelled the DAY it runs out if you don't pay.  (Interestingly
    enough, the cancellation notices came as certified letters, and these
    were PRE-PRINTED certified letter envelopes.  Apparently my insurance
    company sends out a LOT of these...).
    
    Now, on the flip side of this: if your finances are so tight that
    you regularly HAVE to delay payables, then maybe some soul-searching is
    in order.  My wife and I recently went through some rather tight times
    because she got laid off and decided to go back to college and finish
    her degree to make herself more marketable.  My salary alone was enough
    to get us by comfortably, but there was not much left over for luxuries.
    What we discovered during this time was that if you take a hard look at
    the "Hafta's" (as in "I hafta have this, and I hafta have that"), you'd
    be amazed at what you can cut out of your budget without much pain.
    You don't "hafta" buy lunch at the cafeteria every day; bringing it
    from home is a lot cheaper.  You don't "hafta" buy more books when you
    already have mountains of unread ones at home.  And so on.  If you take
    a hard look at your expenditures and challenge your assumptions about
    what you have to spend, you might be surprised where you can cut a
    little out and give yourself a little cushion.
    
    Just my 1-cents' worth (I'm putting the other one in the piggy bank 8-)
    
    --jim
    
    

    I have a couple of outstanding medical bills in which they demanded
    receipt in full.  I send them on a monthly basis a portion of the
    balance.  I have had no problems doing this.  Every month I receive 
    another bill with the balance I owe.  I will continue to do this until 
    the balance is payed.
    
    I know many individuals who let the medical bills go completely.  
    I will assume here that they would rather receive some money than 
    no money at all.
    
    I am doing the best I can.  I am also on a strict budget and sometimes
    unexpected things come up that I cannot pay in full.  I do the best
    I can...and as long as I can send something to them...I will continue
    to sleep nights!
    
    Carol
                                                                          

    Be sure and read any inserts you might receive from your credit card
    company.  I received one in my Citibank Preferred Visa.
    
    The late payment fee will be increased.  This fee will be the greater
    of: 1) $15 or 2) 0.65% of your total New Balance (for purchase and 
    cash advances) on your current statement, excluding this late payment
    fee.  
    
    The returned payment fee will be increased from $10 to $15...
    
    If your New Balance exceeds your total available credit line they will
    charge you an over the credit line fee of $10...
    
    Considering that I am often in a different world and extremely
    forgetful, I think I will cancel this card.  They allow me the option
    of refusing the new terms and paying off the whole account at the end
    of my current membership.
    
    There seems to be some real changes going on as to how the consumer is
    going to be charged for services.  
    
    To answer the question, I often forget, I sometimes don't plan well but
    I am going to change because I can't afford to do otherwise.
    
    The human part is gone, it appears that our relationship with financial
    institutions will be handled by some cold, calculating and unforgiving
    software!

Ever since my divorce and my son's skipping out on a loan for which I
cosigned, my financial situation has been quite a mess.  I get the "
due on receipt" bills and the must pay immediately bills,etc.  I pay
the most critical first: Rent, car payment, and the aforementioned co-
signed loan and other loans.  I've cut up all of my credit cards and 
returned them, with the exception of one which I use for buying clothes
for work.


I've been able to work out some agreements with my creditors..for example
I had my car loan re-written and extended for another 2 years, which brought
my payment from $210 to $87.  While the minimum payment on my Mastercard
might be, for example $100..I've got them to agree to a regular monthly 
payment of $55.. Another loan outfit agreed to cut my payment in half.  In
the long run it may cost me more, unless I can pay more than the minimum,
but it does improve my current cash flow which was the pressing problem...
I do have to eat, and occasionally like to have a night out.


I'd encourage you, if you are having real problems, to contact your creditors
and work something out.  If they hear from you and you make good on your 
commitment to pay *something* they will work with you.  If they never hear from
you they assume you don't care.



Also, if you may want to contact EAP..they can refer you to a consumer credit
counseling group that can provide very valuable assistance.




Feel free to contact me by mail if you'd like.




Jim

For a while things were really getting on top of me... I wasn't really skint
it just looked like I was... I had no idea how much I did/didn't have.

Twice in my life my dad has forked out to get me out of this trouble... the 
second time was like - Thats IT!...

For a while I wrote down everything coming in/going out and life seemed hunky
dory so I stopped writing it down... lo and behold more trouble...

So I sat down, and got my dad to show me how to work out my money (the problem
I had was cos everything was due/came in at different times I had no idea
where MY month began).

The way he explained it you take the month beginning as the day you get paid...
then deduct all the regular payments that will happen before the next day you
get paid... this sounds really simple, but because I was working from the 
first of the month and get paid on the 6th I was always "in the red" in my
mind, and it caused a lot of stress.  

I now only have one card, and I pay it off every month even if it takes me
overdrawn (overdraft is cheaper than the credit card).  But having the
budget book means I have to make up for it the following month.

I also have the "mindset" of "I can't afford..." as a basis which makes you
think twice.

The best advice is pay for the roof over your head, heating, lighting and food..
... then pay the rest as well as possible.  If you are in real multi-card
trouble then try and find a loan to cover it all with one payment, doing this
can also stretch the term, and reduce the payments, and then cut up the cards.


Last month I paid for a skiing trip with REAL money... this is the first time
in 10 years I've paid for a holiday before I went... and it feels GOOD.


Good Luck


Xtine

    Hi!
    
    You are not alone, I am in the same boat as you, I got mega bills with
    due dates too, a lot, and it is over whelming.  But this is what I
    do...send each bill (If it is VISA, store charges) just a little to
    keep them quiet.  It seems like that the creditors are now calling
    homes to make sure the payments come in. My husband has a seasonal
    business which is slow in the winter and when he gets his checks that
    is what we use to pay them.  I am sure a lot of people's credit is
    going to suffer with the economy in a total mess. Dont forget all the
    people who lost jobs, are in worse shape then us.  
    
    
    Hang in there!!
    
    Lynne :-)

    RE:  .5
    
    I received the same notice from Citibank regarding my Visa!
    
    I've decided...I will not go over my limit and pay an extra $10.00.
    
    I refuse under any circumstances to borrow money from any of these
    cards.  The interest rate is outrageous.
    
    
    Carol_who_thinks_it_maybe_time_to_start_cutting_up_chargecards.
    

Forgive me for being blatant, and what I say below shouldn't be construed
as directed at .0 since I don't know the circumstance.

I am afraid that I have little sympathy for most of the people I know who
have trouble with their finance.  In most cases, they have only themselves 
to blame.  When I was in college, I was under a student visa which meant I 
wasn't eligible for student grants or loans, and 99% of the scholarships.  
Worst of all, I could not work off campus.  Above that, the tuition increased 
by $400 a year during my four years stay there.  My relatives did chip in a 
little, but that was no where close to the level for minimum subsistence.  
It was a superhuman effort to stay afloat.  But when I finally graduated with 
a double major, I had $500 left in my bank account and no debt (not eligible 
for any).  Meanwhile, I saw my friends "struggle" with their finances.  
To them "cutting down" meant going to Pizza Hut instead of Maison Robert.  
It meant buy 1 CD a month instead of 2.  It meant sending flowers once a 
month instead of once a week, and most of all they all sworn they were not 
living beyond their means.  There was this friend who was always complaining 
about her finance and this and that until I asked her how much she spent on 
her clothes.  It turned out she spent what amounted to the equivalent of my 
entire living expense (not including rent) on clothes.  "But, but, I have 
already cut it in half," she said.  
    
I paid a heavy price for it as a result, 
but I also gained a lot of confidence.  When I finally received my diploma, 
I had the euphoria of Siegfried after he slain the dragon.

Nowadays, being in debt has become a virtue and a status symbol, and when 
people go over their heads, they see themselves as victims and want the
government (aka the taxpayers) to bail them out.  No I have very little 
sympathy for them, I really don't.

Eugene
P.S. Are med bills covered under DEC insurence?

    "Aren't medical bills covered by DEC insurance?"
    
    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah................
    
    John Hancock/Digital health plans don't cover everything.  I got into
    financial trouble myself but not by living above my means.  I had to
    have back surgery 4 times (of course when I started the doctor said it
    would be a one time surgery which is also a BIG laugh).  At the same
    time my daughter had a chronic disease which she ended up dying from.
    Insurance payed a good part of the expense but even if you have the
    insurance that pays 100%, they'll only pay 100% of what they (the ins.
    co.) feel is reasonable which is RARELY 100%.  Between my bills and my
    daughters bills, I'll be in debt forever.  My parents are now going
    through the same problem because my father is extremely sick and
    medical expenses have eaten all of their retirement money and then
    some.
    It's not really fair to assume that if someone is in trouble it's because 
    they don't know how to manage their money.
    To the base noter, I sympathize.  Just pay what you can monthly.  Most
    creditors will allow that.  They just want their money eventually.
                                                  

    re .11,
    
    No, I don't assume anything.  I asked the question because the folks
    with huge medical bills (the real medical bills, not the plastic ones)
    are among the few I do sympathize.  That kind of thing can really ruin 
    you.  Thank God, I didn't get real sick in college, and pray I don't
    ever run up a huge medical bill without an insurance.
    
    Eugene

    Credit is a black hole that can easily suck you in regardless of your
    spending habits. All it takes is an illness,divorce,accident anything
    that puts you behind and tip the balance and you're behind, once behind
    it is difficult to catch up. I was hit with item 2 (divorce) 5 years
    ago at the time I had credit debts of $80,000 total $23,000 were on
    credit cards alone. It took me 3.5 years to pay off the credit card
    debts(all of which were my ex's) and I'm still paying on the remaining
    portion most of which is my mortgage. I haven't owned a credit card for 
    at least 4 years now and NEVER NEVER will I own another. Since then I
    have found I really don't need them because I have CASH on hand. I just
    go out and buy what I need when I need it something I could never do 
    before because all my cash was tied up paying bills. The only items I
    consider worth my takeing on a loan are a new car and a mortgage both
    are outside of my (and most working class americans) normal means.
    
    
    -j                          
    

    	One quick question for those who money problems are overwhelming
    them. How many jobs do you have? What I mean is, I have bill problems I
    suppose no less or greater than anyone else around, but to try and
    combat them I have two parttime jobs. Its not the best life style in
    the world as far as free time for myself and family, but one must do
    what yo have to to survive. If your having trouble meeting financial
    obligations then go out and get a part time job. I use my check from
    DEC to pay my regular bills, rent, phone, utilities, charges and those
    people. I use my part time job for the other things, food, gas, a
    movie. I've been doing this for 4 years, ( The reasons I'm in this
    situation are the typical ones, sickness, bad judgement, a failed
    business ) and I do see the light at the end of the tunnel. I might
    even quit one of my parttime jobs this coming spring. The only way to
    get out of the jam is work, work and work..............

    
    
    RE: medical bills and 100% of what THEY think the charge should be
    
    
    I really sympathize with people that are in this situation (my father
    had two heart attacks at age 34 and I believe they just finished paying
    the bills 12 yrs later).
    
    BUT, I might also comment that this is a MAJOR reason that HMOs are a
    viable option.  Not only are HMOs cheaper now than John Hancock, but 
    when they say 100% coverage they MEAN it.....I've NEVER had any
    unforseen charges with an HMO...
    
    When you opt for insurance like John Hancock, you accept this risk,
    unfortunately.
    
    kath

    Someone mentioned a few back that people who get into a financial
    problem is ususally due to their own fault. (Not an exact quote I
    realize, but close enough)  In some cases that's true - but not all.
    Situations change and even though you do the best you can and live
    without all the "luxuries", bills can still pile up.  Alot of unforseen
    things can happen, and that's what I'm dealing with now.  Luckily I had
    some stock that I could sell to pull my head back up above water, but
    I'm only up to my chin now.
    
    I empathise with the base noter.  Advice from me?  Well - as far as the
    medical bills go...I know about them ALL too well.  Pay what you can
    when you can.  As long as you make an effort and show them you're
    trying, they can't do very much to you.  As far as the other bills
    go...someone mentioned putting them into a priority order.  I agree. 
    1st things 1st, and everything else will get it when you can give it.
    On the credit cards - pay the minimum only until you can put yourself
    in a position where you can send some additional money to pay it off or
    bring them down more.
    
    Above all - hang in there.  You might eat alot more hamburger and
    maccaroni and cheese mixes, but it will get better.  Tighten up the
    belt as best you can and check out some of the other suggestions from
    previous notes.
    
    And last but not least - good luck.  :-)
    
    Lynne D.
    

    Financial problems?
    I blame it to credit cards...
    I run away from them like crazy! I always receive many "offers" from
    every store, bank, etc, that there is stating "you've been chosen" to
    receive... tha, tha, tha, and ALL literature, without fail, end up in
    the trash can, that is the SAFEST place for them!
    
    (I do keep ONE credit card for emergencies, and I mean "emergencies"
    till the point that I have NOT use it yet...) May be I am weird, but I
    am safe too!

    
    their solicitations make good firestarters...
    

Note .6 had some great ideas.

After my divorce, I couldn't get a credit card. I had to pay for everything 
in cash. Althought awkward at times...consider buying a mattress and boxspring
in cash...this taught me a valuable lesson. I no longer buy impulsively and
now that I have a charge card I usually pay it off at the end of the month.

Some things to keep in perspective:

By budgeting I have sufficient money at the end of my month. But my expenses
are equal to my income.

My daughter on the other hand is financing her own college education. She lives
on her own in a New York suburb and shares an apartment with another girl. 
Maybe she could budget better but bottom line is there just is not 
enough cash coming in for emergencies even though she works full time.

In another senario, I had a boss who made six figures. He would occassionally
borrow lunch money from me, his secretary. I couldn't imagine how someone
who made that much didn't have a five dollar bill.

There are some great ideas in these replies. Some good choices. Good luck.

Linda

    By the way, I was told that late payment on medical bills do NOT affect
    your credit rating.  I suggest you pay what you can on a schedule
    arranged with your doctor or hospital until the bill is paid.  But my
    doctor's financial person related to me that legally, medical payments
    or the lack there of cannot be used to adversely affect your credit
    rating, or show up on it even.
    
    

    I pay my main bills on time, ones that I cannot afford to lose credit
    with such as:
    
    		Car
    		Rent
    		Utilities.
    
    As for medical bills, I would never pay them in full or charge them
    to my credit card.  I have insurance to pay them, but in most cases
    they still need money after the insurance pays.  So I pay 5.00 a week
    and that is it.  A medical bill cannot be reported to your credit,
    which means it cannot hurt your credit rating.  A medical bill is
    not like a credit card bill or a car payment or loan in that you did
    not go out and purchase something and now can not afford to pay for it.
    It is a bill that was acquired due to the need of medical attention.
    Do you see the point I am making? 
    
    So when things get tough for me I pay the bills that keep a roof over
    my head, keep food in my mouth, light to see with, and a car to get to
    work so that I can pay all bills.  If I am unable to pay one of these
    in full I at least make the effort to pay a portion of it, to show that
    I am trying.
    
    This is just my way of dealing with bills.
    
    RLE
    

    >A medical bill cannot be reported to your credit, which means it cannot
    >hurt your credit rating.  
    
    I was in a car accident several years ago.  I could have walked away from
    the accident, but the other guy needed an ambulance.  As long as the
    ambulance was there, they (the police) suggested that I get a ride to the
    hosipital just in case ...
    
    The ambulance company sent the bill to his insurance company (not mine).
    His company just sat on the bill until we finally settled.

    I first learned about the bill when I went to buy a new car 2 years
    later and they said I had a bad credit rating.  The car dealer showed
    me the report and the only thing on it was the ambulance bill that was
    paid late.

    - Dave

    Ambulance charges are not considered medical expenses.
    
    Skip

    Is this true in Massachuetts? I got a credit rating report and there
    was a collection agency on it that I had never heard of and when
    I called to find out what it was for it was for a doctor's bill
    my insurance hadn't paid....thus, giving me bad credit.
    
    kristin

    
    
    Don't they, by law, have to notify you of their intent....or of the
    fact that you're past due?
    
    Are you just supposed to "know" that one bill out of a bunch didn't get
    paid?
    
    
    
    One of our lovely new long-distance companies periodically "forgets"
    that we settled a problem with my bill four years ago.  Every six
    months I get a bill demanding that I pay or they will send me to a
    collection agency.  The bill is for phone calls made on a number 4
    months AFTER I had the number disconnected and moved out of the state. 
    It seems the number was recycled, the person selected this
    long-distance company, but never informed the company of who they were
    (did you know you have to call the company to give them your address
    once you select them?).  
    
    The just picked the most recent name they had for that number and
    billed me for it.
    
    kath

        When I moved to Marlboro, three different phone companies
        charged me for calls made in the three months before I
        got here.
        
        Dan