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Conference quark::human_relations-v1

Title:What's all this fuss about 'sax and violins'?
Notice:Archived V1 - Current conference is QUARK::HUMAN_RELATIONS
Moderator:ELESYS::JASNIEWSKI
Created:Fri May 09 1986
Last Modified:Wed Jun 26 1996
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1327
Total number of notes:28298

1120.0. "Supporting the survivor" by QUARK::HR_MODERATOR () Thu Dec 06 1990 19:17

    The following topic has been contributed by a member of our community
    who wishes to remain anonymous.  If you wish to contact the author by
    mail, please send your message to QUARK::HR_MODERATOR, specifying the
    conference name and note number. Your message will be forwarded with
    your name attached  unless you request otherwise.

				Steve






    
    Well here is a attempt by me to help some people and my self at the 
    same time.
    
    About 8 or 9 months ago my wife and I had the biggest screaming matches 
    that we ever had.  Our lives were drifting apart quickly, we hardly
    ever spoke  to each other, our love life had stopped over two months
    before and to put it  bluntly life sucked.
    
    It was a Sunday afternoon and the kids, we have two, wanted to go to
    the beach for a ride.  I thought it would be a good idea for the family
    to go  someplace together and maybe she and I could talk a little.  The
    kids were on  the way to car when she changed her mind and said I
    rather not with YOU.  That  did it I couldn't keep my mouth shut any
    longer.  She was in our bedroom so  there would be no where to run or
    hide.  I asked point blank if she wanted me  out of the house and life
    because I couldn't put up with her moods and anger.   She started to
    cry like I never seen her do before.  She said I just didn't 
    understand what was wrong and she couldn't tell me.  After more
    prodding on my  part she finally told me what was wrong.
    
    She had starting remembering things that had happened to her in her 
    childhood.  Things that she had been able to block out for over twenty
    years. For some reason her memory was coming back to her and she
    couldn't handle it.
    
    She was remembering the Sexual Abuse that her uncle had done to her
    when  she was younger.  Flash backs of what happened to her were coming
    back to her  and she didn't know what to do or who to talk too.  I was
    stunned to say the  least and lost for words.  What I had thought was
    something I had done or not  done was not even in the picture.  She
    said she loved me very much but couldn't  be around me because she
    didn't know what she was going to do next.
    
    Over the next couple of months we tried to work the problem just the
    two  of us.  I did alot of reading and tried to be supportive as I
    could.  We both  knew after awhile that this wasn't going to work.  She
    wasn't getting better and  I didn't know what else to say or do.  Life
    was just something that we did day  by day.
    
    She finally made the decision to go see a therapist.  It looked like
    the  right thing to do.  Progress would be slow and hard but she would
    be working the  problem.  Things at home were still rough, the kids
    couldn't understand what was  happening or how to deal with her moods. 
    I didn't know what I would be coming  home at night.  Love making never
    happened and our talking to each other was  always strained to say the
    least.
    
    The worst thing that could happen did, her Dad died in August.  It was 
    totally unexpected and very quick.  She went into a deep depression
    that we  still can't get her out of.  She keeps saying she should have
    told her Dad about  the abuse before he died, but couldn't.  She never
    got the time to say how much she loved him.
    
    She now has joined a Sexual Abuse Group of woman who meet every week.  
    At first I thought this would be a great idea but now I am not sure. 
    The first couple of meetings were fairly quite and little happened. 
    She wasn't real  comfortable with the other girls, they are much
    younger and drug addicts and  prostitutes.  This is something she has
    never been exposed to before.  I thought  she was going to quit but she
    is sticking it out so far.  When she comes home  from these meetings it
    takes two or three days before she talks to anyone.
    
    She is also still going to her therapist every week but it is very hard 
    for her to talk to anyone.  
    
    She has quit work and has no set things for self to do.  I see her 
    drifting further and further away from me and the kids.
    
    The kids and I take care of the house, do the wash, and make the meals.
    They have accepted that their mother doesn't do anything anymore but
    don't know  why.  It is almost like she isn't part of the family.  She
    spends many hours at  the cemetery at her fathers grave.  My son took
    his grandfathers death hard and  I don't think what she is doing is
    helping.
    
    I have been going to counseling now for about two months.  My therapist 
    keeps telling me to do whats right for me and the kids.  He won't say
    what that  is but just keeps repeating this.  I have told my wife what
    he has said and she  said he's right.
    
    I don't know what is right anymore.  All I know is that I am very
    tired,  lonely, and unsure of what the future will bring.
    
    I started dating my wife when I came home from Vietnam , she was the 
    strength I needed to get back to a normal life.  She never gave up on
    me when I  had a drinking problem, or when I had nightmares, or what
    ever else I put her through.
    
    I can't give up on her.  I love her very much and don't know how I
    could make it with out her.  She has been my best friend for over
    twenty years.
    
    Well I guess I have said enough for now.  The main reason I am writing
    this is to see if there other people who are going through this now or
    who have  gone through it before.  If anyone whats to talk or write
    please let me know through the person who has entered this note for me.
    
    Thanks for letting me spill my guts.
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
1120.1PSYCHE::ELLIOTTThu Dec 06 1990 19:4130
    
    I admire you for wanting what is best for your family.  Your wife seems
    very depressed and overwhelmed by all the feelings associated with her
    acknowledgment of her past.  She sounds as if she needs more intense
    therapy, although its difficult to make this assertion third hand,
    non-professionally etc etc.  She may need a different support group,
    one which will be more proactive in supporting each other outside the
    group.  She may need a different therapist.  But eventually she needs
    the will to overcome her past and become whole and healed.  Without
    that, no one can do it for her.  Depression and being unable to talk is
    normal in the first few months of grieving and/or dealing with a death
    in the family.  However, as it goes on and on without change there is
    cause for concern.  She can get well if she wants to and puts the time
    and effort into it and faces the pain, walks through it and comes out
    on the other side.  Right now, she may not know how to do that or how
    to deal with it or where to begin.  She may need to change therapists 
    and/or support groups.  You also need to know where the line is and how
    to cope and what to do if there is no improvement in your wife's
    condition.  You may also consider a change in therapists.  You may want
    to join a support group also.
    
    I don't know where you live but in Massachusetts there is a Male
    Partners Group (its group therapy so the charge is somewhere around $30
    to $40) at the Center for Sexual Abuse Counseling in Brighton.  You can
    call them at 617 782-7664 for a brochure on their services both both
    men and women, survivors and partners of survivors.  Best of luck to
    you, you sound very courageous.  
    
    Susan
         
1120.2Keep on doing what you are doing....FSOA::LSIGELMy dog ate my briefcaseFri Dec 07 1990 18:2415
    I give you a lot of credit for sticking by your wife. You are
    understanding that what she went through is very very traumatic,
    especially the abuse she has taken.  It is odd that is all coming back
    to her now, though after all those years of a mind block.  I know it
    must be tough on the family, but just keep on bearing with her, once
    she is at peace with herself, she , your family and yourself will be on
    the road to recovery.  She conquered the first step by coming to grips
    with it and going to therapy.  Please keep in mind that you have
    nothing to do with this trauma so you know it is not you.  I really
    hope things go well, please keep us informed.
    
    
    best of luck
    
    Lynne Sigel
1120.3TRACTR::HOGGEDragon Slayer For Hire...Crispy!Fri Dec 07 1990 18:3514
    I admire your "stick to it'ness" with her... and hope you have the 
    strength to continue to show and give her your support.  
    
    A suggestion though... it is obvious from what you've said that you and 
    your familey are also under stress from what is happening with her...
    perhaps you should seek some sort of group thearpy for the familey to
    prevent any harm as a result of dealing with this problem.  When I say 
    group thearpy I mean that the entire familey should get involved in
    some sort of thearpy that would allow each and all of you to deal with 
    the problems for if it is telling on you, then it must surly be telling 
    on the rest of you familey as well.
    
    Skip
    
1120.4Good Idea.FSOA::LSIGELMy dog ate my briefcaseFri Dec 07 1990 19:016
    I agree with Skip on family therapy, I think it is a very good idea for
    dealing with a problem like this, because it is not just her problem,
    you and your two children are majorly affected too. 
    
    
    Lynne
1120.5NOT easyBROKE::BNELSONJust the Fax, m'amFri Dec 07 1990 20:4229
    	First, I would like to make a recommendation -- on channel 2 they
    have been broadcasting a special series on the family by therapist John
    Bradshaw called "Coming Home".  It is *excellent*.  I would recommend
    that you see it, with the whole family if possible.  It is 10 parts in
    all, with about 1 hour per part.  A chunk at a time would probably be
    wise.


    	At least she has cried and told you what's wrong; those are hard
    first steps.  It's not uncommon for people to block out stuff like
    that, especially sexual abuse, until they're even in their 50's or
    60's.  It's terrible stuff and (on the surface) best blocked out.  The
    problem that arises is that until we deal with that shame and pain, we
    never truly get over it.  It sits inside festering, and causing us to
    say and do things we wouldn't otherwise.


    	But be careful of being *too* focused on her -- you *must* take
    care of yourself or other problems may manifest.  Not to mention the
    kids, who need your strength and attention.  You have a tough row to
    hoe, no doubt about it.  I wish you the best.


    	Good luck,


    Brian

1120.6Homecoming...BSS::VANFLEETlove needs no excuseMon Dec 10 1990 15:565
    I recommend the Bradshaw series as well.  It focuses in on Adult
    Children but is great for anybody who came from a dysfunctional family
    (as many of us, and certainly all abuse survivors, did).
    
    Nanci
1120.7Looking at the positive sideCHEFS::EASTERBROOKMe,Myself,IMon Dec 10 1990 17:31123
Re.0

Hi,

You know if you if you look at it from another angle there really could be a 
    very positive side to all of this.

First, look at the billing
 
- Sadly, a lot of Vietnam veterans were unable to return to normal life, hold 
  down a regular job and get married and raise a family. Many still carry scars   
  that are both physical and emotional, just as many lost their lives and lets 
  face it many people from all walks of life have problems in keeping a marrage 
  together and/or raising children.

- Sadly, very few victims of sexual-abuse have the strength to lock something
  like that up inside them with the determination to not let it ruin their 
  life, and to go on settle down and raise a familly.

- Just as I am sure it must have taken a lot of strength for your wife to help 
  you recover from your Vietnam experiences, it is taking a lot of strength for
  you know to stand by your wife, and not all marriages are blessed with that 
  sort of strength.

There is not religious bias in this phrase, but you know I think in this life
everybody is given a "cross to bear", some very large some comparitively small     
(though they may seem large to the carrier), and just as sometimes this "cross" 
may be something you are obviously proud of, such as overcomming an injury or 
handicap, or raising a familly single handedly, it may also just as equally be 
something that people feel so ashamed of that they keep it locked away in a 
closet, in other words they bottle it up inside of them, which is of course the 
worst thing to do because it eats away inside and is carried in lonliness.

But I don't believe it is what is your "cross" that it important, but it is how 
you carry it that counts, those that carry heavy crosses well tend to become 
much stronger people, those you carry only light crosses often find later in 
life that something relatively small to others is very large to them.

    The challenge is to understand at some stage what your so called
    "cross" actually is and how to carry it with "pride", and the cross
    of "guilt" your wife has been carrying has been a lot heavier than the
    cross of one she should of been carried as that of an innocent
    "victim".
    
    But even carrying the wrong "cross" may have some very positive aspects
    to it, your case, it may well have been the strength your wife aquired in
    learning to overcome the emotional scars she must have suffered that 
    enabled her to have the strength to help you recover from the scars you 
    carried when you returned from Vietnam, have you ever looked at it like 
    that. Or that had she been carrying a cross of "self-pity" she may not
    have been able to cope at all.

The downside is that I also believe though that people you have acquired the 
    strength to overcome great obsticles also run a great risk in that the 
    same strength which used positively enabled them to overcome such hurdles 
    if at some point used negatively may also destroy them, and I speak from 
    a little experience there, as something I have had to contend with and 
    have whitnessed others contending with.
                           
Where I believe the dividing line is, is in that as people strive hard to 
achieve the things you want in life you use that strength to push yourself 
forward, it is the same determination to suceed as the determination not to let 
anything no  matter how unpleasant, stand in there way. 

The danger is that once you have achieved those goals, there you are with a 
massive amount of excess energy and nothing to do with it, often at an age 
that coincides with what is comonly known as the "mid-life" crises - what a 
combination. What I believe happens is that people who have used strength to go 
forward may use that same strength to look backwards at their life, and that I 
believe is very dangerous because whilst you "can influence the future
you can't change the past" and yet people with so much strength so desperately 
want to that they can end up driving themselves into depression unless they see 
the positive side.

We all want to be able to feel good about ourselfs and if there is something 
that has happened that we can't feel good about and yet can't change then we 
develop a consience or worst still a complex that causes us to hurt ourselfs.

It's really not unusual for people with that sort of complex to want to try in 
someway to correct it latter in life, it is I believe the same motivation that
causes wealthy businessmen who have been ruthless in their ways to suddenly 
make donations to charity or reformed drug abusers or infact reformed anything 
to try and help others.

In you wife's case it was certainly not her fault at all, but if she looks at 
how she handeled it she probubaly deserves a "medal", there is a lot of evil in 
the world and often in our younger or formative years we are often to naive to 
even understand it let alone know how to handle it and we either dont have the 
strength or are unable to confide in those we should confide in.

I am sure that for so long your wife must have desperately wanted to tell her 
father, and as you say, now that she is unable to it has only compounded her 
problem.

But look at it this way, just think about what could be gained from using the 
strength both you and your wife have positively, i.e. in finding a new way 
forward. Just think of the good you wife would do if she was able to help put 
back together the life of just one other victim of child abuse and to help that 
child to lead as sucessful a life as she has led.

Look at it another way as well, have you ever reflected on how many of the
arguments you may have had in the past and how many of her behaviours that you 
just could understand were driven by something you new nothing about, just 
think how good your lifes could be if that "something" became a "positive" and 
not a "negative", and I really believe it will once you wife learns to feel 
good about herself.

I hope this helps a little, my advice has to be to stick in-there and keep 
working at it, stay away from any anti-depressant drugs I dont believe they 
ever solve the problem, and keep looking for the good and not the bad that will 
come out of this and eventually it will.

So many times you have had to keep looking for the good-side, and use all that 
"strength" I mentioned" to keep looking harder and harder if necessary and 
eventually you wil find it I can promise you.

Best of luck

Guy.