Conference quark::human_relations-v1

This is similar to the people who pass you in the breakdown lane - it shows
a disrespect for others.  They are counting on other people not calling them
on their behavior.

I'm a bit puzzled, though, about one thing in your case.  If you had "a
number", why was the clerk calling out "who's next" rather than the next
number on the list?

				Steve

    RE: Breakdown drivers
    
    
    In Hudson, Ma the approach from Rte 495 has a very inviting breakdown
    lane.  Often time people drive in it to make the right onto
    Fitchburg(?) Street.  *EXCEPT* when the cruiser is just over the hill,
    blocking the lane., ticketing all those folks!!!
    
    

    RE: .1
    
    I don't know. I took a number, and always do if there is a line.  
    
    I guess when it's not _really_ busy they use the "first come, first 
    served" system. 
    
    P.S. I saw the same woman later with about 16 items in an "8 Item Limit"
    line, right behind me.
     

Re: .3

Obviously this woman doesn't think that rules apply to HER.  Sadly she has
lots of company in her delusion.

					Steve

         This kind of behavior manifests itself in a lot of ways: people
    who park in handicap or visitor parking spaces (ineligible people),
    those who raise their priority in the printer queues, etc.  It seems to
    be a reaction to the flow of society.  Many of us tend to be
    well-behaved and keep our places in line to wait for our turn.  This
    leaves an open space on the "seam of civility" where others COULD step
    in, but are expected not to.  Today's atmosphere of aggression and "get
    things done at all costs" leads to more people taking advantage of that
    seam in order to get a boost above the masses.  The risks being: we
    could ALL do it and thus remove the benefit of the action, we could
    all do it and cause the system to hiccup, we could quickly step on the
    pariah and keep the flow smooth.  I think you made the right choice.
    
                                     Greg

    The trouble regarding express lines in stores isn't helped when only
    very rarely does the cashier enforce the rules. Also, they take checks
    even when it says cash only. In many of the stores the manager doesn't
    back up the cashiers. When I worked one summer in a grocery store
    (1959, I'm old) my manager backed me up if I said something.
    
    Sems like it's "get pushy or lose out"........
    
    ....Bob

    RE: .7
    
    Moments like that should be on videotape. It would be a big "rental."
    :-)

    Maybe this should go in true confessions:

    And then there are people like me who (only once) took a full shopping
    cart through the 15 items or less line.  I honestly didn't notice the
    sign until after the cashier had rung up the order and started to bag
    it.  When I noticed the absence of a bagger, I looked up and saw the
    sign.  With an entire shopping cart unloaded on the belt, the cashier
    was really helpless to tell me to take it to another line - it was
    probably faster just to ring it up.  I apologized profusely.

    I'm a lot more careful since then...

    John

    
    
    In some stores, checks are considered cash! The sign should say
    cash and checks in that case though.

    I was on a subway in Boston, I had a date who, like me was standing up.
    Someone got up at a stop and I started to usher my date to the empty
    seat when another woman slid right in under my seating date! Obvously
    my date stood up after sitting into the lap of the rude woman, and
    apologised to the seated woman. I saw red and asked the seated woman if
    she was being rude or if she was a born ass*ole. She played dumb by
    speaking french. WOW! My date spoke french and I know enough to
    understand it. We crapped on this bozo for two stops. Then she got up
    and left to another part of the car. Winning Through Intimidation was a
    very good book to read.
    

There are lots of good funny stories about following rules and using correct
line, line, parking place etc.

Some of my favorites:

	Challenger: Why can't I park here?

	Enforcer:  It says "handicapped only"

	Challenger:  I am handicapped !  I can't read.


Some of you may know the Star Market on Mem Drive between MIT and Harvard.
A student confidently wheeled his FULL cart of groceries into the lane marked

	12 items or less

The clerk looked him in the eye and said:

	Let's see.  You're either from MIT and you can't read, or you're
	from Harvard and you can't count !

Another is conversation that took place at crowded hotel counter:

	Tired:	I need a room

	Clerk:	No way, we're COMPLETELY full.

	Tired:	Let me ask you something.  If the president were to walk in
		right now, would you have a room for him ?

	Clerk:	Well, for the president, we'd manage something.

	Tired:	I've got news.  He's not coming, so let me have his room.

    a similar experience the other night at KFC.  We were seated in the no
    smoking section (porking out!) when a woman at the table next to us
    lights up a cigarette. Since there were no ashtrays, she just flicked
    her ashes onto the floor. 
    I made a LOUD comment and we got up and left. As we passed her I
    stopped and said "You DO know that this is the NO SMOKING section?"
    she said "no I didn't" and continued flicking ashes on the floor....
    I guess she falls into the 'can't read' catagory.....but you'd think
    that in a RESTAURANT, someone would have the comman decency to NOT
    flick cigarette ashes on the floor.....
    
    aaaaaaarrrrrrrrr
    
    

>                       <<< Note 1095.13 by CSC32::PITT >>>

>    I made a LOUD comment and we got up and left. As we passed her I
>    stopped and said "You DO know that this is the NO SMOKING section?"
>    she said "no I didn't" and continued flicking ashes on the floor....



    Perhaps she really didn't know.  Did you ask her kindly when she first
    lit up the cigarette to move to the smoking area?


    Or were you just rude from the beginning?


    Some people CAN'T read--that doesn't make them bad people and it
    most certainly doesn't make them lower life forms than you.


    A little bit of kindness goes a LONG way, in my estimation.....rudeness
    will get you very little, if anything.


    kathy    

When I have been bothered by someone smoking in a non-smoking restaurant
section, I never confront the individual myself.  I go find a manager and
explain the situation to them, and they have always approached the customer
and offered to move them to a smoking section.  

				Steve

    >were you just rude from the beginning
    
    boy I sure enjoy talking to you in notes Kathy,..,..you're always so
    pleasant.
    
    THE SIGN WAS HUGE.....LIKE FREAKING HUGE.
    AND I DIDN'T SAY I WAS RUDE THANKYOU.
    I said "you DO know this is the NO SMOKING SECTION".
    
    I WASN'T RUDE.
    
    now please don't YOU be either.
    
    rrr

    .1
    
    ALSO, does it require a "please don't not flick your ashes on the floor
    in thus restaurant" sign to assume that she would know better than to
    do that too?? 
    
    Maybe on the subject of obnoxious behaviour showing no consideration
    for anyone but yourself, I'd also like to add to that people who are
    RUDE and INSULTING and AGGRESSIVELY OBNOXIOUS in notes files.
    THEY seem to everywhere as well.
    
    rrrrrrrrrrr

 >does it require a "please don't not flick your ashes on the floor
 >   in thus restaurant" sign to assume that she would know better than to
 >   do that too?? 
  
    Nope.
    It requires a sign that says:
    "When the floor is full, please consider using the ashtray".
    ;-) ;-)
    
    Though if she couldn't read, I guess that would have been lost on her
    anyway....
    
    It's one thing smoking. It's another thing having dirty habits or
    bad manners about what you do with the ash/butts/smoke.
    I smoke, but I honestly think a lot of non-smokers would be surprised
    at how considerate some of us try to be about it. I really try hard.
    And I don't flick ash on the floor.
    
    'gail
     
          

	RE: CSC32::PITT


>    I made a LOUD comment and we got up and left. As we passed her I
>    stopped and said "You DO know that this is the NO SMOKING section?"


	Oh, sorry.  I guess this wasn't "rude" of you to say (Including
	the "loud" part and the inflection you put on the word "DO").


	I'm sure you were very congenial, excuse me for interpreting
	your actions otherwise.  





	BTW....the confrontational feel to my note was intentional.  It
	illicited the exact response from you that I desired.

	If we, as individuals, confront others with harsh words/attitudes,
	we have to accept that the response we get back is going to be
	a defensive/untrusting/stubborn one.


	Anyway.......kath

	

    re: smoking in non-smoking area issue
    
    If I was in KFC, BK, McD's, etc. unless the smoke was ruining my
    appetite I wouldn't concern myself too much.  In a more expensive
    restaurant you're usually asked to be seated in smoking or
    non-smoking, so if I was seated in non-smoking and someone lit up, I
    would probably do something.  I agree with Steve (.15) that the correct
    response in any restaurant would be to notify the manager or nearest
    waiter and let them confront the customer.  It's the management's
    responsibility to control the dining atmosphere of the establishment.
    
       - Larry

    On smokers....
    
    I am also a smoker who tries very hard to be considerate to
    others...smokers and non-smokers alike.
    
    If I'm sitting somewhere and the smoke is bothering someone, and they
    ask nicely..."Could you please move your cigarette" or "Would you mind
    very much either moving/putting out your cigarette?" I have no problem
    doing so...
    
    If on the other hand, someone either makes faces, tries to push the
    smoke away with their hands (all you non-smokers know what I'm talking
    about :-0 ), or coughs right in my face, I will usually not only keep
    the cigarette lit, but blow smoke in the direction of the obnoxious
    person...
    
    My grandmother always told me that you can get more flies with honey
    than you can witth vinegar.
    
    For what it's worth,
    
    Jill
    

    
    ok.....ok...and the next time I go into a cheap restaurant, I WILL
    look for the no FARTING signs...
    
    :-)

   Re: last number of replies

   Really!  I'm not sure I can see that being obnoxious in any of the
   situations presented here would be of any use.  There are many
   alternatives available to me that allow me to act within my principles,
   get my satisfaction and still not be obnoxious.


   							Terza

   >If on the other hand, someone either makes faces, tries to push the
   > smoke away with their hands (all you non-smokers know what I'm talking
   > about :-0 ), or coughs right in my face, I will usually not only keep
   > the cigarette lit, but blow smoke in the direction of the obnoxious
   > person...
    
    But don't you find it hard to blow smoke in your own face?  :-(
    It takes some courage to actually ask a person to put out a 
    cigarette.  I have done it several times and never received a pleasant
    response.  One is treated like a crank.  Maybe many people who are
    discomforted by smoking prefer not to say anything, but try to indicate
    their discomfort by the gestures you mention.  It seems to me pretty
    obnoxious not to respond to these hints. 

    
    re .22
    
    you could find yerself looking down the barrel of a water pistol...

    RE: .27 and you would find yerself with a very fat lip....
    Ask me, and I shall probably do... order and youll be waitin a long
    freakin time, but squirt me or some such, and death.

    
    
    
    Looking back over these notes, seems to me that when we are doing
    something that is obviously offensive to someone else, we insist that
    they ask us nicely to stop. If they choose to take the 'non aggressive'
    approach by coughing in the cloud of smoke, of trying to wave the smoke
    out of their face, we deem THEM as the ones being rude. 
    
    Just because there isn't a NO FARTING sign, I can make some guesses
    around what is proper behaviour and what is annoying to the
    non-farters!!!!
    
    
    Maybe this whole note is about common courtesy and how  *I* am *ALWAYS*
    more important that anyone else......
    
    ;-)

	Are people supposed to automatically know that what they are
	doing is offensive to you?




	kathy

    If they're obviously smoking in a non-smoking area...and they
    know that most restaurants are required to have non-smoking areas,
    then they should know and should not smoke in such areas.
    
    If it's not clear, then, well...all parties involved should act
    politely so that they don't inconvenience each other.  If a non-smoker
    is coughing or waving air around, shouldn't the smoker know that the
    smoke is the reason (regardless of the politeness of the non-smoker)?
    In that case, I don't see a need for the smoker to take offense and
    think that the non-smoker is being obnoxious unless the non-smoker 
    actually starts causing a scene.  A person coughing around smoke
    is a pretty good sign that the smoke is causing the coughing;
    unfortunately, alot of people can't make that connection.
    
    B.

    What bugs me in restaurants is when I have settled in in a far corner
    away from the smoking section (I am allergic to smoke, and my husband
    is even more allergic to I am), eating my dinner, and someone sits down
    at the next table, requests an ashtray from the obliging serving-person
    (or goes into the smoking section to get one), and lights
    up...puff...puff... puff, and my husband starts to wheeze, and we have
    to get up and move our dinners to another table (this confuses
    waitresses!), or sometimes we have to leave without finishing our
    dinners.  Ugh.  We don't eat out very often often, and this is one of
    the main reasons.
    
    /Charlotte

    >how do they know that their behaviour is offensive to you??
    
    I guess that's where common courtesy comes into play.  If I am offended
    because they are wearing blue, then I wouldn't expect them to know
    (or to change clothes either).  But if someone is smoking in a non
    smoking section at the table next to me, and I am coughing (not to 
    make a point, just cause I'm coughing) then it should not take a
    brick in the head.  It part of being aware of the things around you.
    It's part of FITTING into a crowd, instead of banging into it...
    
    but ANYHOW,
    
    Behaviour in lines you say???
    
    How bout when someone in front if you at the grocery store stands at
    the register adding up their checkbook unaware of the 43 people in line
    behind waiting.....patiently.....politely...UNrudely!!
    
    :-)

   >> How bout when someone in front if you at the grocery store stands at
   >> the register adding up their checkbook unaware of the 43 people in line
   >> behind waiting.....patiently.....politely...UNrudely!!
    
    I don't balance my checkbook at the counter, but I do make sure that
    I've written the check #, the date, the amount, and the name of the
    grocery store BEFORE I close the book (and subsequently forget.  :-)  )
    I'm not holding anyone up because the bagger is probably still taking care
    of my order and the cashier can start ringing up the next customer.
    
    Now giving the cashier 200 coupons to sift through...THAT's annoying. 
    ;-)
    
       - Larry  
                                         

	If the guy in front of me has nice buns, he can balance
	his checkbook, or anything else for that matter.


	kits

Re: .35

But Kits, wouldn't his buns have already been packed in the bags? :-)

			Steve

	Steve Steve Steve.....what am I gonna do with you !!



	:-)

	kits

I deleted an earlier reply at the request of the author, and also later
replies which referred to the deleted notes.  My apologies for any
inconvenience.

				Steve

	Inconvenience .!.!

	You should be chained..and whipped unmercifully
	with a feather..til you beg for mercy !   ;-)



	kits

Re: .38

Where was it you said you did your grocery shopping, kits?

			Steve

    What a pity that the rude behavior that started this topic is so
    evident here that people feel they have to have their notes and the
    contentious replies to them removed.
    
    And before you start on me for being so rude as to comment about your
    offensive actions, don't bother.  I don't reply to abusive people.
    
    Karen

    If I felt that somehow readers took significant umbridge at a simple 
    addition than that's my business and it should end right there.  
    I'm not being rude, how could you even think that this constitutes rude 
    behavior. I am absolutely at a totel loss.  It made me uncomfortable to 
    see all these negatives so I asked Steve to delete them. What's the big 
    deal?
    

	re. 40

	Wanna come shopping with me Steve ?   :-)

	Or do you just want to be in front of me in
	line so that I ogle you ?    


	kits

    re. -.42:  You were not the offender referred to in my comments in .41.
    
    Karen

    
    ditto  .41
    
    I've left more notes shaking my head in disgust at the absolute rude
    attacks that some people seem to scan notes just to put in....
    can't someone just make a point without being torn up and insulted?
    And it seems to be the same people...they jump into any topic just
    long enough to point out what an idiot you are.
    
    One of my favorites was a note in which my OPINION was met with "that's
    the stupidest thing I've ever heard".....
    
    This kind of reaction to someones OPINION is about as RUDE as anything
    else we've brought up in this topic. 
    
    I was sorry to see that note pulled also, mostly because it was of
    interest. But I understand the reasons for doing so, and thank the
    moderator for not allowing yet another noter to be torn apart for
    expressing an opinion....
    
    grin and BARE it;-).......it's everywhere.