Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    
    If this is a problem perceived by both of you, then it is a problem you
    both need to work on.  If exercise will help you mentally and
    physically and he is supportive of that, then he should show his
    support by helping you with dinner and the kids so you can get to the
    gym. 
    
    He's either part of the problem or part of the solution.  If he wants
    to help you, he needs to lend emotional, physical and logistical
    support to you, not just tell you what is wrong with you.  You need to
    be honest with yourself on what is really bugging you.  Is it his
    perception of you or your perception of you?  Exercise requires
    commitment and hardwork and can only be done if you are doing it for
    yourself.  You need his help and support and if he's not going to give it
    then he'll have to accept you and your limitations regarding exercise.
    
    If you've "gone to hell" (as he put it) mentally, the stress of change
    is a contributing factor and maybe if things stabilize for you, your
    mental outlook may improve.  Exercise will help and the support of a
    counselor will help.  (you mentioned you had been in marital counseling
    and you might want to talk this out in counseling again or just see
    someone on your own if you're still feeling stressed)
    
    If you have a circle of friends to lean on, find some free time and go out
    and do something FUN every now and again.  (Your vacation sounded
    wonderful, but a vacation of that scope can be stressful too!) Make sure
    you have fun and make sure you take care of yourself and that you have
    supportive people to talk to.  Maybe you can tell your husband that you
    have been under a lot of strain, that you do feel mentally and physically
    beat and ask him if he's willing to help you do the things you need to do
    for yourself.  If not, he shouldn't add to the stress by pointing out whats
    wrong.
    
    You sound as if you've achieved a lot in the past few years, you should
    try to relax and enjoy it and be good to yourself.  Good luck.
    
    Susan
      
             

Paula,

I saw you just a few months ago and you were looking very good then.  What
I think is happening is that your husband is using this complaint about your
physical appearance as a substitute for what is REALLY bothering him about
your relationship, possibly because he cannot find the words for his real
feelings.

Having once been in a situation somewhat like your own, I would suggest that you
not take what he says literally, and treat his words as symptoms of a
deeper problem, one you're already aware of.  If you listen too closely to
what he says, and decide that losing weight and being more fit will solve
the problem, you'll only be disappointed later to find that it doesn't.

You should start defining your self-worth in terms of what YOU think of you,
not what others say.

				Steve

    Your husband's timing was poor. Sounds like your very busy schedule
    might have taken away some of the time you used to spend with him,
    and he hasn't admitted, to himself or to you, that he resents this.
    (Just a guess.) Ask him.
    
    re. exercise, one woman who used to work with me swore by an early-
    morning brisk walk, often with a 'walkman' tape player and either
    music or a 'book' on tape. Said it charged her batteries for
    the day.

    good luck
    Dana

    
    I notice that whenever I'm having an ugly day or a nobody-loves-me
    day, it's usually the week before my period.  Just figuring that 
    out usually makes me feel better.
    
    If that's not it, then I agree with Steve, to a point.  If you've 
    gained 10 pounds or less, then tell your husband to eat dog doo-doo.
    Depending on your height, a gain of 15+ pounds may not only affect
    you physically but mentally.  (I know how I feel when I gain 
    5 pounds! - ready to staple my mouth shut)  While it certainely was
    inconsiderate on your husband's part to mention weight, only you can
    determin if he's right.  If he is then inlicit his help in the
    solution.  Why are you doing work, dinner and the kids?  Can't he
    make dinner every other night?  If he can't cook, he certainely
    can microwave and make a salad.  Map out your week.  Where's your
    time go?
    
    At Digital Stow, we have aerobics at lunch.  Perhaps your Digital has
    that.  That's a great way to force yourself to exercise and cut down
    eating!
    
    Good luck and ask your husband for a hug!
    Rachael
    

    Hello Paula,
    
    	After just finishing up several years of college and earning a
    degree, I don't understand how anyone could say you have let yourself
    go mentally.  If anything, it implies that a MENTAL REST is in order. 
    Could there be some jealousy involved on your husband's part?
    
    Ernie
    

    I definitely agree he is bringing HIS judgement to bear on YOU.  Please
    weigh his words carefully against how you feel you are doing.  You are
    stressed, but you have succeeded in handling a great deal.  Cheer for
    yourself.  Give yourself a hug.  Treat yourself to time with friends
    who WILL be supportive of you.  Try and talk to your husband and see
    why his perception of you seems to have changed.  Could be he feels you
    have outshined him, or that his own needs have been neglected, and
    these emotions have translated into his casting you in a negative
    light.
    
    Counseling might be a good idea on a steady basis, for you at least,
    and maybe some for the two of you.  Mutual support is a mainstay of
    marriage.
    
    -Jody
    

re .5

	Ernie,  I think what he was referring to was that I was "taking things
	easy" around the house, and letting him carry more than his share of
	the responsibilities.  Things were pretty bizarre at work when I got
	back from vacation, and it was about all I could do to make myself go
	in every morning; and I was having trouble coping with my son's 
	complaints about his school (and with looking in the mirror and seeing
	myself getting older, and facing the fact that I'm mortal - I have a 
	real fear of death that's difficult for me to face.)  To take off some
	of the pressure, I let him handle a lot of the responsibilities around
	my son and his school, and didn't do as much around the house as I
	should have.  Maybe he just doesn't understand feeling stressed out
	and depressed.  I know I have a limit, and that I have to relieve
	some of the pressure when I reach it.  But to me it's temporary, and
	not a case of letting myself go mentally; it's just letting some of
	the pressure off.

re others

	My husband does a lot of the cooking, but we're both usually busy around
	the house until dinner's over, taking care of chores, feeding cats,
	dogs, & fish, helping kids with homework, talking with them, etc.
	(We have 2 soccer games a week and practice the other nights, except
	Friday, so dinner's a little late.)  He definitely does his share, if
	not more.   We've only been married about a year and a half - the
	children are mine from a previous marriage.  One thing that makes
	things a little more difficult is he doesn't work just regular hours
	- he travels out of town a lot, occassionally over night, and often
	gets home late and leaves very early.  

	One thing that occured to me today is that rather than fix dinners
	that take continual work, I could put something in the oven and
	come back when it's done - might give me almost an hour of time to
	ride my bike or take a walk or run.  If my kids would join me, then
	I'd have that time with them, too.

	What really hit me hard was the comment about letting myself go 
	physically.  Personally, I don't think I've physically "gone to hell",
	I think I'm "a little soft" and need to firm up.  He seems to think
	if you exercise enough you don't get soft or gain weight.  He's always
	looking at people and saying "How can they let themselves get that
	way?" even though he's a little soft and overweight himself.  He doesn't
	seem to think of it as something that just happens as we get older,
	and that it takes lots of *work* to even try to stay fit.

	Thanks for the comments.  There have been a few eye-openers today.

	And thank you all for helping me get through the day.  You folks are
	great.  I wish you were a lot closer than 2,000 miles away.

	Hypothetically speaking, of course, what would you do if you had
	a marriage you wanted to keep, a family to keep together, your
	romantic/physical relationship with your spouse was dead, and you
	felt like you'd die for even a good romantic, passionate kiss?  

    re .7 your hypothetical question - In one of his books, Nathaniel
    Branden discusses what he calls a '24-hour intensive' for couples
    who have stopped communicating. Basically you spend 24 hours at
    a hotel, no TV, no phone, no books, no leaving the room (except
    to use the bathroom, of course.) He finds the technique very useful
    for crashing through barriers resulting from all the little unsaid
    things. I'll look it up and find the title.

    Paula,
    
    Perhaps you and your husband could try exercising together 2 or 3
    mornings or nights together.  Vigorous exercise at a health club may be
    good, however, long walks together might be better as this would give
    you and your husband time a relaxing time to talk things out. 
    Afterwards, try going out for dinner.  This cost savings of home
    cooking may not be as valuable as the time you save and stress you may
    relieve eating out...
    
    Take it easy...
    
    Joe H.

    Paula:
    	I know by now you have made it through Tuesday. One day and one
    accomplishment that day will bring you to the next. To graduate from
    college at night is a super accomplishment for you and something for
    which you should be very proud. I know the effort you must have made.
    I went through the same thing to gain a MSEE amidst unremitting turmoil
    in my personal life in 1973. But I knew that someday things would
    change, but not yet. 
    
    	For you, you are still quite young, and judging by your self
    description, far from over the hill. I guess my feeling is that you
    love the whole person so why should weight or shape enter as
    considerations? Some people marry a face, some a body, and some a
    person. 
    
    	As you get older, look at the many ways that you have improved.
    Not many of us at 45 have learned nothing since 40. You have a pulse,
    you are a person, and if you really look at it you will find your'e
    gradually gaining something which you cannot have at 25, 30 or even 35.
    It's called wisdom. Take heart in the large number of people who have
    made it to 40 or even 46 like yours truly. Your life is only half full,
    not half over.
    
    	Re: your hypothetical question. For me it's not hypothetical. I
    would set a time for action when all concerned are best served,
    including yourself. After exhausting all options, including
    therapy and thousands of hours of persuasion, if your back is to the
    wall, there may be no choice. We all try hard to make relationships
    work. Some less than 50%, some more, and some, I can speak from
    experience, try 100%. It's our free will and our spirit that determines
    what we do. But if you have gone to the wall for another human being
    and they don't even notice or care, there may be no choice than to go
    your own way. 
    
    It's a wild, wild world
    
    Spuds

    	Paula,
    		On the issue of exercise, one tends to avoid exercise or to
    change exercise routines when depression sets in. It is very difficult
    for me to concentrate or be enthusiastic about running when I'm down or
    stressed. So, it becomes important to go back to your basic exercise
    routine to offset some of these negatives. I know when I'm stressed I
    can alleviate much of it with a good run but its very difficult to
    overcome the mental obstacles and get out there.
    
    		Doing the exercise brings one thing for me very quickly -
    improved self-esteem - which helps me over the down periods. NOT
    exercising brings on those guilty feeling really quickly and the old
    fat psychology goes work really quickly. You may have read somewhere
    about how you feel fatter when your not doing your exercise routine
    even for a couple days. I know this is true for me.
    
    		I just realized I'm busy at lunch and won't get in my run
    today ;^(  I'm feeling fat already!
    
    Al

     Paula,
    I haven't read the rest of this string so this is off the cuff....
    
    I empathise with you.
    I was in a place similar to where you are about a year ago, and I got
    about as much support.
    My learnings were....
    
    1) I can choose to feel good about myself in every way (mental and
       physical) *just as I am right now*
       Reinforcement for my good feelings from those I love is wonderful,
       and 50% expected, but *not essential*
    
    2) If my body or any other parts of me are to be changed it will be
    *my* choice and prioritised against *my* priority list - noone elses
    
    3) If someone else has a problem with how I prioritise when I'm under
       stress than that's *their* problem
    
    4) I'm going to use my limited amount of energy to do what I want in
       my life rather than being angry/disappointed/ disillusioned with
       anyone else. I'm just going to get on with it.
    
    5) "Noone can make you feel second rate without your consent"....
    
    Just a few thoughts.....
    Good luck in getting to where you choose to go from here....
    
    'gail
    
    4) I'm only