Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    Sounds like you've just had a run of bad luck. It happens (to both
    men and women).  It's embarrassing to be stood up, and it's rude
    to pull a no show.  
    
    Maybe you should take a rest from asking and inviting. Let a man
    ask/invite you.  
    
    Don't take it to heart.  
    
    Kath

I agree - both men and women stand people up - I've been stood up by women
on a few occasions.  I don't think there's anything short of a dire
emergency that would excuse this behavior.

My feeling is that if someone isn't responsible enough to let me know
sufficiently in advance that they will not show up, then I have no further
interest in them.  Thankfully such people are rare.

				Steve

    Hello Xtine,
    
    Don't give up.  It happens to us men also.  I would like to suggest
    that you take a pause in these endeavors and reflect on why you were
    attracted to these men in the first place.  There might be an
    underlying thread of similarity in personality among those three men.
    Although it might not be apparent, there might be something covert
    about their personality with this type of men that is attracting you on 
    some level.  The similarities might not be so obvious, but what is
    attracting you to them might be linked to the reason that they duck out
    on you.
    	I don't know what age bracket you are in but I would like to
    suggest that many men(and women) don't own responsibility for their
    actions until rather late in life (at least until about the age of 30 ;'>).
    My guess is that although they had accepted your offer,
    something more convenient for them came up, so they "conveniently"
    forgot or used some excuse not to own up to the responsibility of
    keeping their agreement with you.
    	Again, don't give up, although you might hesitate a little before
    asserting yourself again to reflect on just what about the man is
    attracting you. See if there is something about his personality that
    might be connected to your previously bad experiences.  Never-the-less,
    it is no reflection on you that those particular men seem to be jerks. 
    
    
    Take Care,
    
    Ernie
    

    My reaction. Give them a little time to explain (I'm talking about a
    day or 2), and then relegate them to the "hopeless" list. They weren't
    worth it. But right at the time there might have been a reason, and
    they shouldn't be categorically rejected till they've had their "day in
    court", so to speak. But they owe you that IMMEDIATELY, as soon as they
    can, and if they don't, then forgetem.......
    
    (not QUITE so hardnosed this time)
    
    ....Bob

    .0 From the dialoge, sounds like your from the other side of the Atlantic
    pond. Doesn't matter I feel that it happens to us all. Don't have to 
    be a woman to get the stood up routine. I can count many times it has
    happened to me. I read someplace that there was a guy who suid his
    date for the hastle that he went thru on a stand up. He traveled, like
    you, some 100 miles to take out a woman to the opera, and money on
    the tickets. Drove up to the door, she wasn't home. And a few days
    later she was in small claims court in Cal for it. Its about time
    that folks like this who act irrisponsible get alittle of their
    just deserts! Ha! 
    
    George

    Xtine,  I agree with Ernie... you might want to exam what attracted
    you to these three men in the first place... especailly with the
    situation accuring (apperently) three times in a row.  As for the
    last one.  Give him a chance to explain what happened.  If he doesn't
    ask him.  It may have been something as simple as  a car being broken
    down and not being able to contact you at the time.  
    
    The reason I say ask him, he knows he's messed up.  You've stated
    that he is shy.  He may have decided as a result of his shyness
    and some lack of self confidence (which is typical in most shy people)
    that you've written him off already and rather then embarrassing
    himself with a confrontation over it, just assume the worse and
    walk away from it.  You might consider giving him a second chance
    once you talk with him... based on the plausability of his excuse,
    and if you feel he is worth a second chance.  
    
    The reason I say this is that I traveled 400 miles once to date
    a girl in my home town while in the navy.  When I'd gotten to her
    house she wasn't at home and gave up on the date writing her off.
    
    Two months later, I ran into her by accident and she immediatly
    gave me her explaination not being able to contact me at the base
    to apologize and give any excuses.  She had gone out to get some
    groceries in preparation for the dinner she had planned to cook
    for me.  The store she went to was across town about 2 hours away,
    (she was cooking an Itialian dish called polantra (sp?) which requires
    a special type of corn meal sold only in Itialian markets.  She
    didn't have enough to fix the meal and decided she had just enough
    time to rush to the store pick some up and get back before I was
    scheduled to arrive.  Her car overheated and went into vapor lock
    on a section of highway where she remained stranded for 3 hours.
    
    We immediatly made arrangements for another date after apologizing
    to each other for what we each thought and assumed about the situation.
    It went on to become a very good friendship and we've remained in
    contact with each other ever since.  The only bad thing from it
    was that she never did cook my any poulantra and it wasn't until
    2 years ago that I had the chance to taste it at another Italian
    friends house.  
    
    Skip

    Too bad.  And here I thought you'd escaped the polenta menace.
    
    Sandy-who-was-raised-on-the-vile-stuff

    Being stood up by someone is not only rude but a sign that that person
    is irresponsible and immature. I would not bother with the person any
    more.  
    
    
    Lynne

    re: .7
    
    Sandy, so was I but I liked it!  :-)  Mom would make a whole "batch", and
    occasionally, she'd grill it with italian cheese on it.  It was pretty
    good.
    
       - Larry
    
    BTW:  You can use white or yellow corn meal.  I think the yellow is
    more "traditional", but I'm not sure.
              

    As I said it wasn't until recently that I finally got the chance
    to have some.  I enjoyed it as something different.  As my friend
    explained it, in Italy it is considered "Poor man's food".  I can
    see why.  The corn meal used as the "base" is courser ground then
    cornmeal bought in the regular stores here about.  And is called
    in package form "poulantra" as well.  
    
    For anyone not in the know of this dish... think of it as a spaghetti
    using a corse ground cornmeal in place of the noodles.  It's rather
    tasty in my opinion but then, I wasn't raised on it like Sandy.
    I have a problem liking some of the dishes that I was rasied on
    over the years as well.  
    
    Still, if you've never had it, it's good!
    
    I found a restuarunt in Mass that actually served it on the menu
    although I didn't try it.  A place called "Monty's" wish I could
    remember what town it was in.  It surprised me to see it listed
    as I'd never run across it in any of the Italian restuarunts here
    in Santa Clara.  
    
    Ummmm... now back to our regular feature.
    
    Skip 

     <  .10
    
    FYI, Monty's in located in Leominster MA, the place has been around for
    yearsssss.
    
    

    Thanks, I live in California and had only been back there for a
    week.  
    
    Skip

I have had the same problem with several women I have known.One last year
was chronic about not showing and had the nerve to get PO'd if I asked her why
she coulden't have called me to cancel instead of me driving all the way to her
home. Dropped her like a hot rock.

-j

    re: -last
    
    And in Colorado Springs you can drive far!  ;-)
    
    In my case, the first time I was stood up was freshman year at college.
    The funny part is that we're still good friends.  :-)
    
    Once or twice I could probably excuse, but after that I'm not going to
    bother.
    
       - Larry
    

    
    Within the last 4 months I've been stood up twice!  Both were
    first dates and one I knew from my college days, the other I've
    known my whole life.  It's one thing when it's someone you don't really
    know them but it's another when it's someone you do know!  In either
    event, do you know what the best part is?  REVENGE!  ALthough I haven't 
    run into the friend from college since he lives out of town, when I do run
    into him someday I plan to greet him with much apology for "not being
    around when he called"....ha!  Plan to do the same to the old friend
    when I run into him at a party in the near future too!  Nice clean,
    sweet revenge....turn the tables and let them think they're the one
    that got blown off!!!
    
    

;-) I like that idea... 

I must admit to having given in 3 times in the last week and called him to ask
why... and got no answer...

When we arranged the date, I knew he had a ticket to a barn dance so I thought
he might have decided to go there after all.. but a mutual friend says he
wasn't there and no-one had seen him since the night before... but apparently he
often has to go abroad on business at very short notice (yeh! I know its no 
excuse... even Europe has phones!)...

So I have decided to leave it till I see him and then wait for his explanation
or ask him... its possible he'll come to the pub on either Tuesday or Thursday
this week as its club night...

Only thing is its his birthday on Wednesday and I'd already got him a card...
should I send it??  And should I make some comment about being stood up?




Xtine

    I gave my reaction in .4, but I just realized that in my younger days
    I was NEVER stood up, and I NEVER stood up anybody. All in my late
    teens, since I was married at 21. I don't really know what either side
    feels like.
    
    But certainly a person owes the other notification and honest
    explanations if they want to break a date..........
    
    ....Bob

    Hmmm... If you've tried three times... I'd say he struck out.
    The heck with him.  There are plenty of guys who would not stand
    you up or at least have the good manners to call and explain why
    they had to cancel out without warning.
    
    Do the revenge trick on him and leave it at that.  It's his lose.
    
    Skip

Well... found out last night he was called away to Germany on urgent business...
but I've been there and I know they've got phones...


So tomorrow night when I see him he isn't gonna get away with out a slagging!




Xtine

    Hmmm.... even though they have phones... a call could be an expense
    he hadn't planned on making and if it was urgent enough, he may
    have dropped the thought of calling you all together until it was
    too late to do much about it.
    
    Just something to consider before tossing slag at him.
    
    Skip

Unfortunately, I cannot just switch off the feelings I have for him, even 
though I think he's acted sh*ttily... so I think you can rest assured I'll
"go easy" on him... probably too easy...

I think in a situation like this, any situation where one person has been 
"hard done by" most people just say "Thats OK, no problem"... just for once
I *want* to say "Look, I felt like a right Pillock sitting there with your 
dinner cooked, and tickets for the pictures... you could have called" - but
I know me... I'll probabaly say "Thats OK, no problem"...

I'll let you know tomorrow (he *should* be there tonight)...




Xtine

    re .21
    
    Well, of course youshould give him a chance. But if you don't get
    a REASONABLE explanation, or if it happens again, then if I were you
    I'd think twice about seeing him again.
    
    ....Bob

    But just so you have the feeling of satisfaction.....
    
    If he fails to give a reasonable excuse... pick up the plate of
    spagetti (as a suggested meal) and dump it in his lap before asking
    him to remove himself from your sight forever more.
    
    ;-}
    Skip

    If you just let it go by saying "That's OK, no problem", you're
    setting yourself up to have it happen again.  If it's *not* OK
    with you, let him know.  Strange as it sounds, he might not have
    thought it was necessary to call.  (Or he may have forgotten you'd
    planned to get together that night).

    Since you don't know him very well, I'd give him the benefit of 
    the doubt, and tell him that if it happens again, that he should
    call to give you a chance to make alternate plans.  That way he
    knows that you value your time, are unwilling to be a doormat,
    and, more importantly, what to do next time so it really is "OK,
    no problem".  If he still doesn't understand, tell him you were
    hurt by his behavior. Lying to him is _not_ going easy on him; 
    it's being unfair to him at your expense.

    If I stood someone up and they responded that it was no big deal
    I would take their words at face value and assume that calling
    the next time was unnecessary (and that they might even be a bit
    surprised if I did call).  And because I think most people would
    be hurt left sitting there with a dinner cooked and waiting for
    their date, I would also wonder if they could be trusted to tell
    the truth.

	Sharon
	

    Good words of advise Sharon... and exactly the way I feel...
    
    Unfortunately although more than 20 people turned up at the pub last
    night he wasn't one of them...
    
    And he was spotted in town at lunchtime (with another girl) so he
    wasn't in Germany this time...
    
    Think I'll give up on this one...
    
    
    
    Xtine

    There's no accountin' for low class scum Xtrin... 
    
    But don't let it get you down, there really are more out there some
    of them even have various degrees of chivlary and decorum and Gallantry
    and even good manners.... well, at least enough to use there napkins
    once in a while.  Keep your mind open, and be true to yourself...
    the rest will eventually take care of itself... most likely when
    you least expect it too.  (wonder why it always seems to work that
    way?)
    
    
    Skip

The saga goes on...

Yesterday I got a very cute "thank you" card, and an explanation and an apology.
... it took the post office 5 days to deliver it less than 30 miles...

I still haven't seen him, and probably won't now for a few weeks due to holidays
and what not.... by that time it'll all have blown over...

one things for sure though, I won't be askng him out again... next time (if 
there is one) I'll wait for him to ask me...




Xtine

    Well, at least he was considerate enough to apologize.  Mailing
    it gives it a personal touch.  To bad you didn't get it sooner it
    would probably have been more effective it.  But then I mailed a
    letter to my girlfriend in NH 2 weeks ago and she still hasn't received
    it.  ARGHHHH!!!! 
    
    Skip

I wonder how many romances have gond downhill cos of post offices....



Xtine

    Having been overseas in the Navy where the government got to handle
    mail twice to get it to us.... (Once via the U.S. Postal System,
    Once via the U.S. Navy Postal System)... believe me ALOT!!!!
    
    Skip

Then again, the postal service gets blamed for a lot of things that aren't
their fault.  Perhaps "My apology is in the mail" should be added to the
set of "World's Biggest Lies"?

				Steve

    In her case however, all she had to do was check the postmark which
    dates when the post office first got there hand on it.  
    
    And in my case ... I KNOW when I sent my letter off to NH 3 weeks
    ago... nope today is 4 weeks now... and my girlfriend STILL hasn't
    received it.  Also... I once received a letter from my sister dated
    7 July 1988, on 8 July l989... One year after she'd mailed it. 
    And it WAS a year old.  I was really upset over that one.  I guess
    they figured I wouldn't recognize the difference between the 8 of
    88 and the 9 of 89. 
    
    Nope you can't convince me the post office system doesn't deserve
    every bit of criticism it receives.  
    
    Skip

    No, "My apology is in the mail" is a rather small lie. Perhaps heard
    more often then most, but all in all a small one -- especially if the
    apology manages to get out of the mail.
    
    	Jon

    You have both missed the point... in this case... it wasn't a lie...
    It was never said.... the apology was sent and (assuming she went
    by the post mark) took 5 days to travel thirty miles.  Let's hear
    it for the U.S. Postal System.
    
    Skip

Actually, the UK postal system..

Posted (or handled) 2.45pm on the day that he would have received the birthday
card and socks... quite keen really...


If only he hadn't needed prompted...

What was interesting was his 'excuse' didn't match the explanation given by
the mutual friend... looks like she was just covering for him...



Xtine

    Or, for some reason, he lied?
    
    Ahhh well, water under the bridge so to speak.  Question is, will
    you consider going out with him again?
    
    Skip

    After a few 'burnings' in the past my saying (for us females anyways)
    is
    
    	... Always have a 'backup' plan with a 'backup' man ...
    
    Works every time!! :-)

:-).... love it!  Must tell my roommate she'll love that!

But I have a confession to make... I organised a trip to the piccies on Saturday
with 6 people and invited him along.  Unfortunately I am still smitten...

He unknowingly let me know who it was he was seen with as his Aunt and Cousins 
had come over for a visit, and he said he'd shown them round... and that's why
he hadn't been to any events for two weeks... he said he also popped over to
Germany - so maybe thats where the mutual friend got it wrong...

You can tell I've forgiven him can't you??

I did have a mini-go about the standing up... I bought the tickets for the
pictures and when I gave him his I said "this is the second ticket I've
bought you for Dick Tracy"... he looked really embarrassed but I did tell him
I flogged the first one...

It was freezing in the cinema (over-enthusiastic air conditioning) and I 
shivered my very best... but I didn't get an arm round me... maybe I'll have
to come to terms that he's not interested (I'm very thick skinned - this could
take some time ;-))

Anyhow, at least we're in touch again...


Xtine

>    After a few 'burnings' in the past my saying (for us females anyways)
>    is
    
>    	... Always have a 'backup' plan with a 'backup' man ...
    


    	It seems to me that this will not solve the problem, only attack
    the symptom.  Rather than overbooking oneself, isn't it better to be
    mroe careful about who you choose to go out with initially?  If we take
    this logically, then this sort of thing is perfectly kosher for men, as
    well (and in fact I'm sure there are men who do it).  If we all engage
    in this sort of thing, pretty soon we're all standing each other up.


    	Now believe me, I know that no matter who careful you are, you're
    bound to be stood up (obviously, however, we all have times when it
    can't be avoided -- as long as you call to apologize and explain later,
    it shouldn't be too big a deal).  I've certainly had my share of being
    stood up.  When someone is unable to keep any kind of committment, then
    it's simply time to move on.  There's too many good folks to be wasting
    time on a troubled one.


    Brian

    Brian... that's great... only I want to point out somethng for you
    to consider...
    
    
    logic... and affairs of the heart.
    
    Skip

    
>    logic... and affairs of the heart.
    

    	Actually, I don't believe I was mixing them at all in my note.  By
    pointing out the extreme case (everyone standing each other up, and
    consequently going to a backup plan with someone who again stands you
    up, ad infinitum), I have (at least in my mind) pointed out the
    problems inherent in the situation (albeit on a smaller scale).  I
    simply see no point in doing this; if someone is chronic about not
    showing up, I talk to them to try to rectify the situation.  If the
    situation doesn't ameliorate, I move on.


    	Luckily, I can only remember having this type of problem with one
    person.  She would keep dates for about a month, and then she was
    calling the day before to cancel, and then she was calling that day to
    cancel, and then she was calling the day after to apologize....
    There's a definite pattern here, and no matter how much I talked she
    just couldn't change (she had a lot of personal problems that she knew
    about and admitted to but didn't seem to want to change).


    	Like I said, you just get a little choosier, and if you see
    patterns like this, patterns that won't change, you move on.  Simple.


    Brian