Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    Theo:
    
    You have to take care of yourself first (oh, and your son, too) the
    rest will fall into place.
    
    As long as you feel good about yourself, that's all that matters ... My
    sister once told me that people who feel bad about themselves
    unconsciously attract the wrong people, because the wrong people can
    "sense" you are vulnerable, and will use that to their best ability to
    get what they want.  I see you being very strong outside a
    relationship, then the cycle of letting the woman dominate/dictate your
    life falls into place.  Maybe it's more comfortable for you to fall
    back into the old patterns.  But you have to resolve and make yourself
    aware of when you are falling into the submissive pattern again, and
    pull yourself out of it.
    
    Don't feel guilty about taking care of your own personal needs first. 
    Once you become confident in yourself, only then will you be able to
    work towards a *healthy* committed relationship.  
    
    Tammi
    
    

	Hi Theo -

	I'd like to make some comments on your most recent entry here -

>    and let control the relationship because I didn't set expectations and 
>    hold to them, but tried to be the "nice guy", and then resented being 
>    "used" (my responsibility!) later. 

	The key here is "let control". Maybe there's something you havent 
worked through, albeit a subconscious thing, that makes you want or feel more 
comfortable with someone else taking the throttle.

>    When it comes down to it, I too often don't know what my priorities 
>    are, and this leads to misperceptions about what I like or don't like, 

	Have you ever taken the time to establish this for yourself? Where
does your relationship fall in the heirarchy?
    
>    her "helping" me and "educating" me, and systematically refusing all 
>    self-analysis. I cannot get around the feeling that there is something 
>    very similar with my former wife!

	There is, and this was pointed out in reply .2
    
>    Now my situation is difficult, but I know for a fact that I'm not that 
>    much in need of "help". 

	Oh really? Be careful here, as Mlle P probably thinks the same thing
about herself. Remember, it takes two to tango or dance other steps together.
    
>    rather than letting these differences kill our relationship, we might 
>    try to work out something we're both comfortable with.

	That's a very positive statment, one that you can believe in. However,
one thing that seems insurmountable at this point is the ability of both 
partners to take a look at themselves.
    
>    I feel I can be generous when I know the basic expenses are worked out. 
>    She says the only way to be generous is by not caring at all about 
>    money and never counting anything. I feel her attitude is also a 
>    coverup for not taking responsibility.

	This sounds like a "setup" to me. Just be completely out of control
with your money so you can earn her approval on her definition of "generous".
There's a lot of caring in generosity and after a while going by her 
definition, what you _did_ give would'nt mean anything anyway.
    
>    She says anybody who has to talk about money is a *banker* and that it 
>    kills love. She refuses to make any agreement, instead justifying how 
>    much she says she has done in the past and claiming, in a 
>    self-righteous tone, she'll give me every cent in the future. 

	Still calling you names, I see. Still refusing to cooperate or 
participate in the _whole_ relationship. What a *claim*, yeah, that's 
something you can believe in...
    
>    - There are similar things in my relationship with my former wife and 
>    with this woman. As long as I don't change, they tend to reestablish 
>    themselves. 

	This is true and will continue - but you've got the right idea. 
Continue to learn and grow, getting the help you need and working on yourself.
Change is intrinsic to that process. We are presented lessons until we learn 
them!

>    - Given the "comprehensive" view of the situation, does it change your 
>    perspectives? I think this is it and we may split up. 

	Being in a relationship with someone who refuses to look at 
themselves, see themselves in their part of the "dynamic" or work on 
themselves will be very difficult. My relationship works so well because
we're *both* willing to do that and we *both* realize and work hard on our 
own issues. Best of Luck!

	Joe Jasniewski

	

    I would like to say thank you to both Steve and Joe in particular
    for their insightful and thought-provoking replies!
    Since I am muddling through much of the same myself, it is
    always enlightening to hear others viewpoints and especially
    when they are expressed so well. I am sure Theo as well
    as other noters in this file will benefit.
    
    It's why I love notes!
    
    Robyn

    What are *you* getting from this relationship?
    
    Judi
    

    
    
    RE: the whole thing including replies......
    
    Where were you guys when I wanted to kill myself over my ex-fiance??
    
    Wish I was in tune to these notes while going through my difficult
    times.  It's over as of 2 yrs ago and I'm just now getting my self-
    esteem/confidence back...........feels good to be human again.  ;-)
    
    Melinda
    

Theo,

I have been catching up with HUMAN_RELATIONS recently, so I've read through
your notes and the replies over the last day, rather than over time.

It seems to me that what happened is that at a vulnerable time, when you 
"needed" something and this woman spotted that need (and that happens 
subconcsiously) and responded... there are people who "thrive on crisis" or
"thrive on being needed"...

What is happening is that you are getting your head together and your need is
no longer so strong... so you are "growing apart" as she senses this she
becomes more controlling.

I believe that when you met you both had equal and opposite requirements which
were fullfilled - but that you are moving out of this phase now, and she is
not.

I suggest that you either get counselling or give up - to be honest, it seems
as if the "mutual needs" were what attracted you so maybe you should give up.

There is a book available here called "Women who love too much"... its actually
about women who consistently end up with "bastards" but it does explain how 
these "patterns" in relationships occur... 

I have also read an article about friends who are only around when you need
them - who lose interest/become less interesting when you get over your "crisis"
... do you think this is what is happening here?



Xtine