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Conference quark::human_relations-v1

Title:What's all this fuss about 'sax and violins'?
Notice:Archived V1 - Current conference is QUARK::HUMAN_RELATIONS
Moderator:ELESYS::JASNIEWSKI
Created:Fri May 09 1986
Last Modified:Wed Jun 26 1996
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1327
Total number of notes:28298

998.0. "ME ! ME ! ME ! ME !" by DCC::NATHASINGH (Steve Nathasingh - EACT/MI Munich 865-2352) Fri May 04 1990 09:23

	Do you ever have conversions with people and regardless
        how general or impersonal the conversation steers, the
        other person always seems to turn the lime-light back onto
        himself (I use himself since it has only happen with
        male friends/acquantances and relatives).

        For example, your friend/relative ask - how are things
        going with your present job ? Since things are
        going very well, you say so. Some way through the
        explanation, he interjects and turns the table onto
        himself.

        How do you react to these situations ? Personal experiences
        welcome.

        One thought follows.


        I have given it some thought over the pass days and came up
        with the following.

        Maybe that person does not have anyone to tell how well he is
        doing or someone to pat him on the back and say, "who is a
        clever boy then !"

        I will be trying this out in the coming weeks since I am sure
        that the situation will arise.
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
998.1Record SyndromeYUPPY::DAVIESAGrail seekerFri May 04 1990 12:2226
    
    Yes.
    I know a LOT of people like this.
    
    It makes me irritable because I get the feeling that they don't
    give a damn how I am - it was just a conversation-opener so that
    they could talk about themselves. I wish they'd just be honest about
    that upfront!
    
    The other thing that I've noticed is that the people I know always
    *play the same record*. They turn the attention to themselves so
    they can play the "victim" record or the "ain't I gorgeous?" record
    or one of many other stuck-needle records.
    
    They do not want to listen.
    Even to positive input.
    Or even to you trying to break off the "conversation"!
    
    Re: -1
    Do the people you have this syndrome with always talk about the
    same things, or is it anything as long as they're the centre of
    it?
    
    'gail
    
    
998.2LEZAH::BOBBITTpools of quiet fire...Fri May 04 1990 12:489
    Yeah.  Some people are really me-deep in conversation ;)....
    
    After they go on for a while, I'd tend to look bored and mention I had
    somewhere I had to be (even if it's only away from them).  Maybe with
    behavior modification you can teach them that when they start singing
    the same old songs, you stop listening....
    
    -Jody
    
998.3What positive actions ?DCC::NATHASINGHSteve Nathasingh - EACT/MI Munich 865-2352Fri May 04 1990 13:4630
	There are 2 people in particular. The odd thing is that
	I have learnt a great deal from them.

	The 1st is a close relative who is quite successful. This
	gave me a great deal to work for and in a quiet way, try to
	make him a little bit proud of me - as I am of him. I am
	on the verge of being as contented with life as he is.

	We were having a brief conversation only a few days ago
	and I thought from the sound of his voice that his inquiring
	question about my career progress was geniune. Only to find
	that after about 15 seconds, I had a 'break' for him to
	react. He did, but turned it to himself.

	The main reason that I have written this note was due
	to shear disappointment. In other words, I felt let down.

	The 2nd person is a fellow-worker. I can cope with this more
	easily that with my relative. The emotions, to me, are different.

	However, I will try my utmost to rain compliments on 
	either of these two the next time it happens - just to see
	what the reactions would be.

	I appreciate the last 2 replies, but what positive things do
	you think can be done to strengthen these sort of relationships - 
	especially with the relative.

Steve
998.4XCUSME::KOSKIThis NOTE's for youFri May 04 1990 14:1116
    the person that switches the conversation over to them reminds me
    of someone I know that did that. The segue used to be the worse
    part. eg: me: "I did something neat today, blah, blah". 
    Cut-in: "oh that's nice, but I did something even better, blah blah..."

    Made me feel like what I said/did was never even heard. 
    
    Listening and communication skills are not innate. They are learned
    by listening to others and learning new ways of communicating. I
    try very hard to listen to what the other person is saying and then
    form a question to give them a chance to expand on what they've
    said, this gives the speaker feedback that I am interested in what
    they've said. Some people never learn how to listen effectively.
    
Gail    
    
998.5CARTUN::DWESSELSThe only constant is change.Fri May 04 1990 15:3419
    (Hi Gail!)
    
    I've found myself in the position of the "sinner" on occasion, stepped
    back mentally and wondered, "why am I doing this?  Is something
    bothering or exciting me so much that I can't focus on what the other
    person's trying to say?  Am I 'starving for attention/recognition'?"
    Perhaps those who are always calling attention to themselves are 
    experiencing some of these feelings...  After recognizing that I've
    been in "Me, Me, Me" mode, I start *really* paying attention to the
    other person's concerns, not just waiting for a break so that I can add
    comments on similar experiences *I*'ve had.  I agree that communication
    is a learned skill, so much of "normal conversation" tends to consist
    of reflex; person 1 talks, person 2 talks, person 1 talks... without a
    lot of real listening and understanding going on.  I appreciate it when
    someone *really* listens to me; and when I *really* listen to someone
    else, it gives me a break from *me*!
    
    MTCW,
    Diane
998.6Another sinnerPENUTS::JLAMOTTEJ & J's MemereFri May 04 1990 16:037
    Listening is a skill too.  I am often a 'sinner'.  I think I have a
    hard time turning my brain off.  I word or a thought triggers thoughts
    in my head and I am gone.  
    
    If it were me I would like my friend or relative to tell me.  A comment
    like "Joyce, I don't think you are listening to *me* don't you want to
    hear my story".  I would not be upset.
998.7ICESK8::KLEINBERGERS.N.A.G.-HAGFri May 04 1990 19:378
    RE: .0

    I think all you can do is point it out to the person, and explain how
    you felt when it was happening..  don't count on it working though..  I
    know one person that no matter how often someone points it out to them,
    they just can't {won't?} change their behavior...  why I don't know...

    but rest assured, it's not only you :-)
998.8HPSTEK::XIAIn my beginning is my end.Sat May 05 1990 22:5617
so many begin
with

long stories of
me

soaked in tears
salt

beside one sympathetic
phrase



Sorry, but just couldn't resist; and apology to William Carlos Williams.

Eugene
998.9Let them know that their impupt *is* important...VNABRW::TRAXLER_BNothing compares .....Mon May 07 1990 06:4422
I also know a lot of people who act that way but must admit that it were only 
women so far. I had a "best friend" at high school, and when ever I showed up
with "Listen, I got a problem. That's what happened ...." she would always 
interupt me with "Yea, this also happened to me once, and it went so... and
I did .... bla bla bla".

Two years ago I attended a "Communication Seminar" where the first lesson 
we learned was "to listen" - I never knew how difficult that is. I did the
same what I critized on others - interrupted them because I couldn't wait
to tell "my" story!

Well, now I know better. I've really *learned* to listen (remember: you've
got two ears but only on mouth, so use it that way ....), and whenever
somebody is now interrupting *me* I listen carefully until (s)he is finished 
and then I say something like "Well, that's interesting, would like to discuss
this later, too, but now I think I can go on talking because I haven't finished
yet. Is this ok?" I never got anything else than an "Of course, dear!".
And besides, these people then listened so carefully, because they knew 
their turn would be a little later and they could just relax and listen
now. It works great!

Billie_now_listening_again
998.10But I wasn't finished!!!BSS::VANFLEETKeep the Fire Burning Bright!Mon May 07 1990 14:2913
    I recently ran into a situation like this in an Investment in
    Excellence course here.  This guy consistently interrupted everyone in
    class for three days.  I finally had had enough and told him that
    although what he had to share was valuable I felt that what other
    people had to share was at least of equal value and would he please
    stop interrupting everyone else because I felt it invalidated
    what they had to say.  This led to a rather lengthy but positive
    discussion on why he did this and the protocol of good group
    conversations.  He didn't entirely cease and desist but it was obvious
    that he made an effort to be aware and let other people finish their
    thoughts before jumping in.
    
    Nanci
998.11I was luckyBROKE::BNELSONIt's a Devil's disguiseMon May 07 1990 18:3823
    	Interesting; in high school, I had an English teacher that told us
    that too many folks speak without really listening to what else is
    being said.  I have learned later she was right.


    	But what she did for us was hold a one week course on how to really
    Listen.  And I am so glad I went through it at a fairly young age; I
    have found I learn *far* more by listening than by talking!  ;-)  I
    think I've become a pretty decent conversationalist, and I've noticed
    that people open up to me pretty quickly.


    	Unfortunately, I have a friend who is almost at the opposite end of
    the spectrum.  In fact, he can be so rude that when I first met him we
    almost didn't become friends!  But I soon learned that he does this
    without really meaning to.  I have been wondering how I might break him
    of this without hurting his feelings, because his heart really is in
    the right place.


    Brian

998.12really listening...the Final FrontierRAINBW::DROSSELTue May 08 1990 18:2315
    re .0
    
     Exactly....
      I catch myself...  It's pretty easy to drift off onto different
     areas (Which are now *Happenning* for me) of conversation, primarily
     from old *dAd AnD mOm* days, where the primary family activities
     centered around them admiring themselves in the mirror....and being
     an Aries (yes there are a few definite traits...but Most of them
     are *Overrated*)...I can now see where the frustration came from.

     Listening is a LOT more interesting/fun than giving speeches.
    
     steve
    
998.13Who's talking?OTOU01::BUCKLANDand things were going so well...Wed May 09 1990 14:434
    If we're *all* listening, just who are we listening to?
    
    8-)
    	Bob
998.14STAR::RDAVISYou can lose slowerWed May 09 1990 20:183
    See topic title.
    
    (: >,)
998.15Yes, sometimes I can be this way.ELESYS::JASNIEWSKIThis time forever!Thu May 10 1990 13:3733
	The chapter in "The Birth Order Book" on only children describes me to 
a tee! As my parent's "little jewel", I got much more than a fair share of 
attention. There _were_ no others to share with, no brothers or sisters to 
compete with in this space. I was the prime focus; I was never required to 
be aware that "others" even existed (besides myself) until I started school. 

	Another effect of being my parent's prime focus was that I didnt have 
to be personally self-assured like, at all. I got all the attention and 
assurance I ever needed from outside myself - from my mother mostly. I feel 
now that I missed out on the opportunity to learn much of anything about doing 
that on my own or sharing the gift of an adult's attention, as a child.

	In some ways, which I'm finding out through another book I'm reading,
I was "overparented". This has caused some very specific problems for me, 
especially when I find that my subconscious expectations of the real world 
arent met like they were in the world my parents created for me. I can still 
feel "entitled" to the same level of attention and consideration my parents 
once gave, from others.

	For example, I can have some difficulty keeping myself from taking 
"center stage" in a conversation, even when it's clear that someone else needs 
to talk about *them*. I might do the classic "Okay - let's talk about you! 
So_what_do_you_think_of_me?" almost immediately, or find some other twist to 
shift the subject onto *me*, without even realizing I'm doing it as it's 
happening...This often happens when I'm upset with myself or something.

	However, at other times, I can be a good listener. People tell me this 
and say that I'm easy to talk to. However, "people skills" is something that 
I have to work at and I'm ususally actively aware of "who's talking" and "how 
much" so I can fairly meter my time as the center of attention.

	Joe Jasniewski
998.16ERIS::CALLASCarry wood, chop waterMon May 14 1990 17:438
    From Ambrose Bierce's _The Devil's Dictionary_:
    
    Egotist, n. A person of low taste, more interested in himself than in
    me.
    
    Bore, n. A person who talks when you wish him to listen.
    
    	Jon
998.17I hate it!!!2CRAZY::FLATHERSBe Kind...I have teenagers...Mon May 14 1990 21:3210
    
     It would be a lot better if this type of person could READ BODY
    LANGUAGE!!!  And get the hint to shut-up and let me talk a bit !!!
    
      I too know a lot of people like this. Seems they have NO tolerance
    for listening!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    
    Jack
    
998.18sometimes it just all bubbles over...ARRODS::CARTERPyurdedbrilyant!Thu May 31 1990 10:5019
I can, I know, be very very boring... not all the time, but when I've got 
something on my mind I just have to share it...

At the moment, I am going through "teenage 'love' agonies" again for the first 
time in over 4 years... its hopeless... I try and focus on something else, then
the doubts and constant trying to "analyse" snippets of conversation happens...

I am really aware that at the moment this is a problem, so much so that at lunch
the other day I said to my long-suffering friend "Look, I know this is boring 
the backside off you, but I NEED to do this, the good thing is you'll know that
next time you feel like this - I'LL listen!, and if it gets too unbearable feel
free to tell me to shut-up or to keep out my way till I get over this"

After I had admitted I KNEW what I was doing, but couldn't help it I saw her
relax, and we could laugh it off, and now - well, I owe her one ;-)



Xtine
998.19CADSE::GLIDEWELLWow! It's The Abyss!Wed Jul 04 1990 03:5739
>.0      ... the other person always seems to turn the lime-light 
>        back onto himself 

I like people to talk about themselves if what they are saying
is relevant or interesting.  If they are repeating themselves for
the 18th time  ---->  hand over ears    |..|   

Truman Capote talked about himself endlessly ... I loved it!

Last summer I spent a weekend with a cousin who may be the
world champ on lime-lighting herself.  She was the first person
in America to love folk music, love JFK, grasp ecology ....
She was dying for pats on the back, so I went along.

In one way, she drove me nuts.  She wanted to talk about
herself all the time BUT she couldn't hear anyone else
in any way, even about herself. For instance, she talked about 
her law work for about an hour, but when I asked her about a facet of
revising contracts, she uttered five words, and went on
to something else.  She wouldn't respond to what I wanted
to know.  At first, I thought it was some kind of hostility,
but finally decided she was simply impervious to input.
She is lost inside her own head.

A friend of mine, who is single, and I were talking about 
this me-me reflex in relationships, and we came up with
a metaphor:

 Each one of us is irretrievable isolated on our own island.
 One of the joys of relationships is that you get to find 
 out about someone else's island, and you get to tell
 them about yours.  You get to see your island through their
 eyes, and they can see theirs through yours.  The world
 enlarges. 

 If your whole 'duty' in a relationship is to admire their
 island, it's a dull relationship. 

 Meigs (who is feeling verbose tonight)