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Conference quark::human_relations-v1

Title:What's all this fuss about 'sax and violins'?
Notice:Archived V1 - Current conference is QUARK::HUMAN_RELATIONS
Moderator:ELESYS::JASNIEWSKI
Created:Fri May 09 1986
Last Modified:Wed Jun 26 1996
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1327
Total number of notes:28298

952.0. "Jealousy" by QUARK::HR_MODERATOR () Mon Jan 15 1990 16:50

    The following topic has been contributed by a member of our community
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				Steve






    I'm 25 years old and female. During the past 8 years I had 3 "longer
    lasting"  relationships (about 2 years each) which ended all "because
    love was over".  During all these relationships I had to deal with one
    big problem, called Jealousy. I was always jealous about the woman
    before me, especially when my boy-friend was still seeing her. And, of
    course, I was jealous about any woman coming near him. I knew that this
    was a big problem and I really tried to  work it out. I read a lot of
    books, I talked to friends about it (btw: There is no "best friend" at
    the moment I could talk to. My best friend, who was like my sister,
    died several years ago in a motor-accident and since then I was not
    able to establish a new friendship of that kind) and I also told the
    boy-friend about it. 

    When the last relationship came to an end (about 2 years ago), I really
    had  enough (sounds strange, I know!). I didn't want a "real"
    relationship anymore, I tried to establish my own life, dated some men
    but only for a kind of "sexual relationship" and nothing more. These
    one and a half years were great and I enjoyed them very much!  Sure,
    there were moments of loneliness, but I learned to deal with myself,
    thinking about myself and getting to know me real good.

    Now, some months ago, I dated an old friend of mine ("high
    school-darling") whom I used to see once in a while. And it turned out
    to be *the big love*. Things are running so well that we are thinking
    of getting married in about a  year. I never before met a man who cares
    so much about me and my feelings -  it's just great!

    And yesterday it came again - this old jealousy! I thought it was
    better now, when talking about his ex (story ended some months before
    we met) there was a  little grumbling inside me, but I could deal with
    it, it was o.k. And now  yesterday, when we came home, there was some
    woman-voice on his answering  machine, stating she was a girl-friend of
    a woman he used to go out with for  a few weeks before we met (nothing 
    serious) and she - this girl-friend -  needed some help with producing
    a video, learning that he is kind of an  expert in this. 

    We didn't talk about it because I don't want him to see this kind of
    jealous woman in me, but I couldn't sleep all night (nightmares of
    seeing a beautiful lady tempting my boy-friend). When he asked me this
    morning if there was some- thing wrong, I simply said "No,no, just
    tired" and we went off to work. I know that my thoughts are silly, that
    he really loves me, that he is one of those rare faithful men, I
    *believe* him .... but still can't help having these silly, stupid
    thoughts and feelings!

    I deeply wish this relationship to be "the best of all" and I would do
    anything for it - is there any advice for me? Thanks in advance!!!!
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
952.1Tell him....MCIS2::WALTONJohn Boy This!Mon Jan 15 1990 17:0623
    Honesty is often the best policy.  Since you can't hide that something
    is wrong, (he noticed this morning, didn't he?), just tell him.  Say
    something like "I have been working on this part of me that gets
    jealous of the dumbest things, and although that part of me is very
    small, sometimes it rears it's ugly head.  I am feeling a little
    jealous right now, but I will work through it..."  
    
    It is important that you not threaten him with the jealousy, just
    acknowledge it.  This is your problem, not his and if he feels like you
    are "pushing" the jealousy thing, you might put a damper in a good
    relationship.
    
    
    I would seriously suggest that you see a counselor about the jealousy. 
    Envy is a natural and common emotion, but jealousy that robs you of a
    night of sleep is probably rooted in something else.  A counselor might
    be able to help you identify what produces this reaction, and then work
    through it.  All of us have been jealous at some time or another, but
    it sounds like your jealousy has gotten out of hand.  
    
    Good luck!
    
    Sue
952.2I've been thereTLE::D_CARROLLWho am I to disagree?Mon Jan 15 1990 17:2938
I second the previous advice, to be honest with your boyfriend.

I know exactly where you are coming from.  For years, I was so jealous that
I would get *angry* if I saw a woman looking at my lover, let alone him
looking back. It hurts so much, especially when you *know* it is unfounded,
you really trust him, and so to add to the pain and worry of the jealously,
you feel guilty for having negative emotions toward an SO who hasn't done
anything to deserve it.

I don't know about you, but my own jealously stemmed from my own feelings
of unworthiness...that just about every woman was better than me, and if
my lover had too much contact with other women, he'd realize it.  I always
figured I was second best to past loves of his, and that he would rather be
with them, but they didn't want him.  I was so insecure I just could deal
with the "competition", even though really there never *was* any competition.

I'm still dealing with it, but I've gotten a lot better.  The first step
for me was realizing, at least on an intellectual level, that the jealousy
and insecurity were unfounded.  I had to start looking for good things 
within myself, instead of being dependent on my lovers to prove I was good...
and the more I came to rely on *myself* for validation, the more I was able
to accept that my SO might love me for *me*, even when compared with other
women.  It is so much more satisfying to know that he will still love me
even when there *are* other women available, and that I am not just "the
best he can get"...

AT any rate, do tell your boyfriend.  I didn't, in one relationship, and
found that even though he wasn't responsible for my anger, I was still 
angry at him, and the anger built up, and I manufactured situations that
would allow me to vent it at him.  He had no idea where it was coming
from.  When I finally told him how jealous I was, he was surprisingly 
understanding. He didn't cater to my jealousy by limiting his contact with
other women, but instaed helped me to realize that he wasn't *interested*
in other women because he had me.  Hiding aspects of yourself that you need
to help deal with will only make them *harder* to deal with.  He might even
be able to help!

D!
952.3HANDY::MALLETTBarking Spider IndustriesMon Jan 15 1990 17:4160
952.4Fear of Loss & AbandonmentSTEREO::KINSEYMrs. Kinsey ReportingMon Jan 15 1990 17:5927
    Speaking from experience, the problem probably has its roots in
    your adolescence.  You carry that with you in your reactions to
    situations today.  It doesn't matter who your SO is, the pattern
    of emotional response behavior is the same.
    
    You are suffering from low self-esteem, insecurity, fear of
    competition and utlimately fear of loss or abandonment.  Everything
    can be seen as a threat to your relationship.
    
    The answer is first in understanding this intellectually (I did this
    through counselling), then a re-training of your emotional response
    to a more appropriate one for the current situation (hypno-therapy
    helped here).
    
    Of course, a loving and supporting SO is imperative.  It doesn't
    alway go away completely, but it's at a level that's much easier
    to live with.
    
    I also suggest reading Nancy Friday's book "Jealousy".  It is very
    enlightening and you won't feel like you are the only one suffering
    from this.  It's much more common than you think.
    
    It takes a lot of hard work, but it's worth it!!
    
    Good luck
    
    Helaine
952.6GLDOA::RACZKASpiderMan is ALWAYS hungryWed Jan 17 1990 02:478
        RE: .0
        I'm not sure how much of the "grumbling inside" is jealousy.
        I've never meet anyone who enjoyed talking about past lovers,
        the topic sure troubles me and I TRY to avoid it
    
        I'd only suggest making more friends and sharing your feelings
      
        christopher
952.7ACESMK::CHELSEAMostly harmless.Wed Jan 17 1990 21:158
    Survey says:
    
    Tell him.  He's already noticing that something's wrong, even if you've
    managed to explain it away.  It's a lot easier to handle something if
    you know what's going on.  If you don't tell him, he might decide your
    changed behavior is caused by something else entirely -- like maybe you
    don't love him anymore but you don't know how to tell him.  I think
    he'd rather deal with you being jealous than worry about you leaving.
952.8I also agree - talk to him!LDYBUG::GOLDMANBack to life, Back to realityFri Jan 19 1990 11:0931
    	Speaking from the other side of the coin here...I was involved
    with a very jealous partner at one time.  (In fact, I think the
    first note I ever wrote in this conference was asking advice
    dealing with it/him.  There's a note called "That Green Eyed Monster"
    or something like that back quite a ways that you might want to 
    read.)  He had told me early on in our relationship that he had a 
    real problem with jealousy.  But it wasn't until we had been seeing 
    each other for a while that it started to really be a problem.  It 
    caused some pretty good fights, but because I cared so much, I 
    was willing to try and deal with it.  Close friends of his that I 
    knew also told me that he was dealing with it better than he had in
    previous relationships, but it was still a definite problem.

    	For him, it definitely stemmed from some insecurities.  And
    while that wasn't the entire reason we broke up, I think it was
    part of it.  Definitely talk to your boyfriend about it, and do
    consider talking to someone who might be able to help you
    understand and get a hold on it.   Holding it back from him can
    only hurt by putting a barrier in your relationship.  Be honest
    with him (and yourself).  If he cares enough, he'll talk to you
    about it, and try and help you deal with it.  But solving the
    problem must come from within you (i.e. don't expect him to say 
    he won't talk to old girlfriends, etc.).

    	FWIW, my ex has now been involved with someone for almost two
    years, and though he still experiences some jealousy, it's not
    nearly as bad as it used to be.  So it can be dealt with!

    Good luck!

    	amy
952.9THE GREEN EYED MONSTER PART II.TRNPRC::SIGELMy dog ate my briefcaseTue Jan 23 1990 11:1511
    Remember one thing: He loves YOU and not HER! You just got to keep on
    thinking on those lines.  Dont worry, just try to block it out of your
    mind.  It is normal to feel a bit jealous, because everyone does at one
    time or another. Don't let it ruin a wonderful relationship though. 
    And one other thing, you have an image in your mind that this "other
    woman" is physically beautiful, right? Did you ever see what she looks
    like? Don't worry!!! Enjoy your relationship!!
    
    best of luck!
    
    Lynne
952.10IT CAN BE RESOLVED !BREW11::OCOYNo Scotoma's hereThu Jan 25 1990 09:2020
    The Green Eyed monster - I know it well....When I first met my husband,
    I felt jelous of previous girfriends, sometimes, of just being as
    close to my husband as I was then...I tried to deal with my jelousy
    on my own, and then one day it would explode....Quite frankly, it
    almost ruined out relationship.  Then one day, we talked of marriage
    and then got engaged.  I realised that this was a big commitment
    for him, and that my jelousy was unfounded.  My imagination was
    probably the worst thing, like you I used to imagine the most beautiful
    women etc. etc. I realised that it was pointless tormenting myself,
    and that if he was going to find someone else - there would be little
    I could do to prevent it, except with my jelousy I could push him
    away. 
    
    The best solution I found, is honesty, aslong as he tells you where
    hes going with whom, and that if you want to go along, you can.
     Then its obviously quite innocent.  Now we have no problems, we
    discuss everything, if my jelousy should arise, then its soon
    dispelled.
    
    Best of luck to you.....
952.11Keep the past in the past....TRNPRC::SIGELMy dog ate my briefcaseThu Jan 25 1990 11:278
    You have to live in the PRESENT not the PAST.  Everyone has had
    ex-boyfriends or ex-girlfriends, it is just a fact of life when you
    meet someone.  But when they put that little gold ring on your finger,
    you know it is YOU that the person loves because YOU are the one with
    the wedding band.  Just dont think about past loves, because they are
    part of the "past"!
    
    Lynne :-)
952.12give him credit, tooTLE::RANDALLliving on another planetThu Jan 25 1990 12:0817
    I found that it helped to think, "Well, Neil is a wonderful,
    caring man with a warm heart, and he had the good taste to pick me
    out of the crowd.  And since he's such a wonderful, caring person
    with such good taste, his ex-girlfriends must be nice people too,
    because someone as nice as he is wouldn't hang around with jerks."
    
    And it turned out I was right -- one of his ex-girlfriends is
    still a good friend of both of us.
    
    A lot of my jealousy stemmed from fear that I wasn't good enough,
    that he was going to leave me if he found something better.  But
    that's pretty insulting to him, to think he's so shallow that he's
    only on the lookout for the best deal, and it rested on my own low
    self esteem -- believing that most any other woman I met was
    somehow "better" than me.  
    
    --bonnie
952.13Reply from anonymous author of base noteQUARK::HR_MODERATORThu Feb 22 1990 13:4240
    Dear All,
    
    Thanks a lot for your comments. Sorry that I didn't answer any earlier
    but I haven't been to the office for almost 6 weeks.
    
    To keep you updated: A few days after this phone call I was again at my
    fiancee's appartment and saw a piece of paper on his desk with some
    woman's name and telephone number on it. I said something like:" L.? Is
    this a  friend of yours, sombebody I'm going to meet?" and he answered:
    "L. is a friend of C., the woman I told you about, and she asked me to
    call her because she needed some help with a video. But I know that
    this is only a trick to get in touch with C. again, this woman really
    tries everything to get me back, even though I've told her that we
    won't see each other anymore. Therefore I don't have any intention to
    call L.!"
    
    Well. I know, I should have asked: "Why did you put down the phone
    number then?" I couldn't. I should have told him what's going on in my
    mind - I couldn't! I know that he would be hurt that I don't trust him
    enough and so on, I really don't dare to tell him!
    
    And you know where this leads to (and this is something I experienced
    during the last years over and over.....)? I'm sitting at home,
    thinking about the whole story, feeling this fear and frustration ....
    and finding again my way to the cookie-box! And then I'm telling myself
    that I'm already fat and not half as pretty as this C. (or who-ever)
    and another piece of chocolate finds its way to my stomach ..... It's
    kind of a  circle, you know?
    
    The worst thing of all is that I don't have anybody to talk to. I mean,
    there are a lot of "friends", people I go out with, but there is nobody
    I would tell my innerst feelings to. Some of you said I should contact
    a counselor. Well, yea, I think that could help, but in the country I
    live this is not so common like in the US, there are only a few and
    these few are so expensive that a "normal person" cannot afford going
    there. But today I'll have my first lesson in "autogenous training", I
    think this might help, too. Does any of you have experience in this?
    
    Thanks again for listening to me, and any comments are welcome!
    
952.14SCHOOL::KIRKMatt Kirk -- 297-6370Thu Feb 22 1990 15:0619
>>    Well. I know, I should have asked: "Why did you put down the phone
>>    number then?" I couldn't. I should have told him what's going on in my
>>    mind - I couldn't! I know that he would be hurt that I don't trust him
>>    enough and so on, I really don't dare to tell him!

You should have told him what's going on - he'll figure it out anyway, and
to me, at least, jealousy really annoys me. Why did he write down the phone
number? I don't know. Why would I have written it down? Because when someone
starts to give me a phone number, I automatically write it down. Why don't I
then throw it out after I get off the phone? Same reason I don't throw out
junk mail & other stuff - I'm messy. And if it makes it into my phone book,
then even if I never intend to call it, the number's likely to be there
for years.

Silly question - why don't you trust your fiancee enough to tell him?  
Do you have any siblings you could talk to?  Parents?  Aunts?  Uncles?
Friends you could promote to "close friend"?

What is autogenous training?
952.15self-confidence the keyQUILL::BNELSONMusic of the Spheres....Mon Mar 05 1990 18:5025
    	Not too long ago, I was put in a situation where I could have felt
    jealous; in fact, I think that a few years ago, I probably would have.


    	But I didn't, and later I tried to figure out *why*.  The only
    thing that I could come up with is that jealousy has its roots in
    feelings of inadequacy.  Sure, other factors such as trust can have an
    affect on whether you feel it or to what degree you feel it, but self-
    confidence seems to be the root.


    	I just got through rereading the replies in this note, and it would
    seem that others feel the same way.  Gee, this introspection stuff
    really works.  ;-)


    	I think Diana hit the nail on the head -- discover yourself, and
    your good points and learn to like/love yourself and these negative
    emotions that we're prone to having at times are less likely to come
    up.


    Brian