Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    any suggestions????
    
    wow, that's a tough problem.  Have you thought to speaking to an
    american consulate, or embassy or something in order to see what
    your rights are?  
    
    I sure that legally it is going to be a pretty sticky situation...
    
    hang tough!  and best of luck...

    
    RE:0 
    
    There was a case reported in a US magazine about an American woman and
    her Jordanian husband. The guy left the US for Jordan with the child. 
    It was said that the woman used "movie script" methods to retrieve the
    child from Jordan. I don't remember the full details of the case, but
    any law office that specializes in International Law might remember. 
    A search in previous editions of "Newsweek/Time/People" three years back
    might help. Or maybe somebody else on this forum might remember some other 
    aspects of the case too.
    Keep trying ! 

>> A search in previous editions of "Newsweek/Time/People" 

   FWIW  I read an account of this story in an issue of Reader's 
         Digest last year sometime.


   Bob

    
    
    There's a serial on Brit tv now... something similar...
    
    based on true story I believe.... 
    
    I'll send particulars via mail... some of my Brit friends
    are taping it for me and I am going to have it converted so I 
    can watch it in the States...
    
    lin

    Re: .1,.2,.3,.4
    
    Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm not thinking of kidnapping my
    son and hiding out in Alaska or somewhere. 
    
    The legal avenues all seem to be closed. 
    
    Sure I miss my son. Sure, I need to be with him. But my question
    is more like: "Any suggestions for how this situation could be worked
    out so that it is the best possible FOR HIM?" 
                      
    I was hoping someone would come up with an example of how they arranged
    their child custody solution via a negotiated or mediated agreement,
    and could offer some suggestions as to the process.
    
    At the same time I want to push for something positive, I am so
    conscious that this has become a game of power. She has all the
    power and I have to be able to open up the dialogue and lead us
    to some positive, jointly acceptable solution. Seems impossible.
    
    I am just so amazed that a mother could separate a child from it's
    father so easily and with such egocentric nonchalance after seven
    years of marriage which were basically very good (not perfect, but
    really very good.)  She seems to be almost totally unconscious or
    unconcerned with the fact that this is having major impacts on her
    child and husband.
    
    I am so wary of being with another woman one day whom I'll be attached
    to and have a kid with. I'll always think someone I love may take
    my child away.
    
    Commitment doesn't seem to mean much these days, and we are so easily
    distracted by the endless possibilities around us. I don't want
    a dry, lifeless commitment from anyone. I want a love that is alive
    and growing. But when you have a child with someone and then they
    leave you as if to say "it was nice, see you sometime", you start
    to wonder.
                                   
    As soon as anything gets difficult, people seem to look for an escape,
    incapable of getting at the roots of the problem and instead blaming
    their unhappiness on the context ("this person is too ______ for
    me").
    
    OK so the traditional commitments our parents made don't seem to
    be in fashion. People want more. More excitement, more adventure,
    more growth. Fine. But what about the kids? What kind of environment
    are they growing up in? Shuttled from one daycare to another. Never
    seeing their parents together. Feeling rejected, alienated. 
    
    No matter what society one is in, people need a way of working out
    solutions to tough problems together. Otherwise they are forced
    to accept solutions based on conflict, which make noone happy.
    We seem to be living in a society where everyone is out to get their
    own as quickly as possible, cover their own ass, and go on to the
    next thing. In the economic arena, this is disgusting enough. In the
    family context, it's a real tragedy.
    
    Isn't there some way for two people to love each other, develop
    trust and tolerance, have kids, and hang in there without either
    of them being the world's perfect person?
    
    

    
    
    You may be able to use the fact that the child is a citizen of both
    countries to your advantage.  
    
    Sorry to hear of your pain and your sons pain.  
    Keep trying there must be a way to help you gain more time with
    him.

    .2 came about because under Jordanian law, the man had total
    custody and rights over the child after the divorce.  She didn't
    even have the right to visit.
    
    --bonnie 

    Some points and questions in random order:
    
    - The U.S. does not recognize dual citizenship.  This could work
    for or against you depending upon whose court you are in and what
    influence you are trying to use.
    
    - Why does your wife want custody of your son?  If she doesn't like
    the 'marriage situation' why does she still want 'half of it'? 
    
    - I know you very well may not want to fight the divorce, but can
    you use that 'process' to force some concessions?  I mean the word "use"
    in most callous and manipulative sense.  Such concessions could be
    counseling for her and you and the both of you, full custody, partial
    custody, and/or bringing your son to the U.S. for some number of years.
    
    - By all means consult the American Embassy.  They should know of
    local lawyers, counselors, etc. to help you even if they do not
    have the means to directly influence your situation.

    - What is your wife's problem?
      I know you don't know.  I think you know you need to find out.
      Don't let it go -- for your own peace of mind.  Communicate to
      her her lack of compassion in not letting you know the real reasons.

This may not be relevant to the case, but:

>    - The U.S. does not recognize dual citizenship.

is not true. The US does recognize dual citizenship (no one asked
me to renounce my foreign citizenship before --or since-- I was
naturalized). I understand (in very layman terms) that legality of
an action depends on its legal status in the locality where it took
place. 

-- Ron

    Sounds like we need to consult an international lawyer.  The law
    (or the state department) may have changed recently but I recall
    reading or hearing unambiguous language to the effect that the U.S.
    only considers you to be a citizen of the U.S. or some other country
    but not both.  They may not have asked you to renounce explicitly,
    it may have been implicit somewhere along the line.  An interesting
    question though.  I will see what I can find -- in my space time
    sometime.

    re: .10
    
    Yes, the law was changed in this regard recently. I don't know
    much about either the old law or the new one, but I do know that
    the law changed pretty drastically, especially for people in
    multinational marriages and the offspring of those marriages.
    
    --bonnie