Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    There are tons of support groups available in most communities.  The
    best thing you can do is to take care of yourself first!  You have to
    be ok before you can look to anything else.  
    
    Take the time to find a support group...it's uncomfortable at first but
    we've all been there at one point in time or another.  As hard as it is
    right now and as much as it hurts you have to believe that there will
    be a brighter tomorrow.  Our guarantees in this life are few. 
    Unfortunately we have to get through the really rough times before we
    can get back to enjoying the good ones.
    
    If you want to talk offline...send some mail.  I've been where you're
    at...it DOES get better!
    
    Hang in there!
    Gary

I had a similar situation 4 years back.  Still somewhat in "recovery mode,"
but a whole lot better now.  My sanity was saved by physical activity. 
Friends, family, support groups, etc. didn't help me (but, they might be
good for you).  I'm something of a loner anyways, very private when it
comes to important things.  My feelings then were too "important" (private)
to be shared; couldn't handle breaking down in the presence of others. 
Windsurfing, paddling, workouts and volleyball (physical activity) were the
only things that truly took my mind off the despair and left me with a
short-term sense of well-being.

Important realization: You can survive by yourself.  May hurt like hell,
but as long as you eat and sleep, you will survive.  Time passing will
improve things; slow but sure.  Kind of waited it out.  Seized my good
moods when they came by and tried to get the most out of them.  

You moods may swing abruptly; everything's going fine, then something is
triggered and you've got to get out.  Go ahead and go if it gets that bad. 
All part of "handling it" and rediscovering your own way of handling
problems when the going gets rough.  

Work may be totally hazed out by the "noise" of your thoughts and feelings. 
Run on auto-pilot if necessary.

Definitely a difficult path before you, and your successful traveling of it
will be equally as heroic as anything Ulysses or any other hero ever did. 
You're on your own now, not forever, but for now.  You can survive.  You
are a survivor.  You can re-build your own destiny.  The world's a big
place.

    
    I've been divorced twice.   Both times I thought I'd go nuts.  I had
    so many feelings being stirred up (pain, anger, frustration, etc.) that
    it was difficult to think of anything but.
    
    Talking to people really helped me keep my sanity.  If I had left all
    my feelings bottled up inside, I think I would have gone crazy.  By
    talking to others, it helped get out the pain and anger I was feeling
    and gave me a chance to put everything into some sort of perspective.
    
    They say time heals all wounds and it really does.  You may never 
    _forget_ but you will _heal_ over time.
    
    If you'd like to talk off-line, send me mail or just give me a call.
    
    - Beckie
    

    You have to talk to someone... just do what you can to not put it on
    *everyone* *all of the time*... measured doses, when you need... a
    therapist is helpful.
    
    Reconciliation is unlikely and wrapping yourself up in the hope that
    you can somehow put it all back together can keep you stuck in it for a
    long time -- a friend once told me that I had to "kill hope" before
    hoping killed me... it was good advice.
    
    If she's being reasonable... try mediation... it saves tons of money
    when it works... if not *you have to get a lawyer just as tough or
    tougher than the one she has*... and you have to let 'em fight it out
    (unfortunately).
    
    Let yourself be really angry at the betrayal, the abandonment, the
    unfairness of it... everything... with someone who is willing to listen
    and be supportive --- preferably not everyone you meet.
    
    There's more... it takes a while... it's very hard... but you do get
    through it and over it... believe me...
    
    R.
    

	I was divorced two years ago and "survived". Actually, I grew through
the whole experience.

	If you want to talk, call or send mail

	Tom Cross    

    I ws divorced last Feb..  It's not easy but each day gets better....
    Time is the best medicine..and someone to talk to that has gone
    thu it helps a great deal.....feel free to send mail off line..One
    of the best things that helped me is to stay active so I got a second
    job to use up some of my free time.....
    
    Like Tom said you do learn and grow from the experience....
    
    don't be afraid to send mail..
    
    Steve
    

    
    I've been separated for a year and a half, "legally" divorced since
    Oct.
    
    At first it was real hard for me.  Totally scared to start new
    relationships.
    
    But it got better after awhile.
    
    Now I'm learning not to run away and not to think that every
    relationship has to turn out like that one did.
    
    Yes, me to, send mail if you don't feel like writing in here.  But if
    you can, write in here.  The power of declaring one's self can be
    amazing.
    
    /Eric
    
    

    
    Well I have been seperated for 8 months and still haven't filed and
    everyone here that has gone through this mess knows all the hurt,
    anger and other emotions that will constantly creep up on you.  Time is
    just about the only thing that heals the pain.  Talking to others that
    have gone through the same mess does help as well.  One word of advice
    I would give is watch out for the first relationship you get into
    because you fall fast and cling to that person as if she were glue and
    you will either end up married again or heartbroken...  I got lucky and
    just got my heart broken again but life goes on.....
    
    Send mail and I will give horror stories to show you things do get
    better.
    
    Steve

    I know it is painful to go through a divorce, especially if you love
    that person more then anything.  Hang in there, it gets better as time
    goes by, and who knows?? You might meet someone else that will sweep
    you off your feet!!!  Go out and have fun, get involved in out side
    activities. It will help the wound heal a lot faster than sitting home
    and dwelling on it.
    
    
    good luck
    
    Lynne

    .8 I got lucky and wound up married again :-)
    
    Deb
    

    It's so easy for everyone to say hang in there things will get
    better. They do, but for some of us the emotional pain takes a
    terrible price. I can say after two years of separation (and just
    starting to actually get a divorce) that there are still times when
    the pain is unbearable. And that's with knowing that I'm really
    better off being out of the marriage. God knows what it's like if
    you don't feel that way.

    You can be very vulnerable to falling in love even when it's someone
    that is inappropriate for you. That hurts too, though I'd take the
    broken heart over a bad second marriage. Some choices huh?

    I take a quote from cummings as my motto.

    "I have loved, let us see if that's all", liesl

I feel bad for you.  It's a horrible thing to have to go through but you will 
survive.  I went through it - it was granted 11/6 and it will be final 2/9.  
Read my note entered here #567.  I was devistated but I survived.  The 
emotions you go through are real hard.  I was constantly on an emotional 
rollar coster - a love hate relationship.  Even though it's still not quite 2 
years - the pain and anger etc...is still inside me.  Most days are very very 
good, but I still have that 2 or 3 days a month that it bothers me.  Talk to 
people who have been there - it helps alot.  Try and get out more often and 
try to get used to doing things "alone".  Going out to eat for dinner for 
example by myself was a big step for me.  Eventually, you will have your own 
life to live and get used to it and enjoy it.  I think the worst part of it 
all is the fact that "the other person doesn't love me anymore".  That is a 
very hard thing to comprehend.  It makes you very sad, mad, and lonely.  All I 
wanted was someone to "love me".  I can remember nights screaming at God 
begging him for someone to love me.  Well, it's been 17 months and I"m much 
much better.  You have many many things to go through - lots of hurt and pain 
but in the end - you will heal.  Time really and truely heals - it's getting 
through the time and you do that by keeping active.  The more active you are, 
the less time you have to concentrate on your misery.  If you need someone to 
talk to, send me mail.  I can honestly say that this notes file really helped 
me.  I made lots of friends and got lots of love and support from strangers 
that never met me but had been there to help me.  Even though it was the worst 
thing to experience - I'm glad I did because I was able to learn to survive on 
my own, learn to love myself, and know I can handle real tough situations.  I 
never thought I'd say this but I wouldn't change anything even though it was 
extremely painful. Good luck, you'll make it, I know you will.

/Colleen

    You have gotten some really valuable advice.  So I will not repeat them
    now.  Some things not mentioned...
    
    * Short term survival.   Turn depression into some form of anger at the
    old spouce.  Anger gives you energy that you find is sapped from you. 
    Later, you can control the anger from within.  Just get angry in your
    mind, not your fist!
    
    *  Just get angry at the spouce.  The rest of the world has some real
    great people out there.  It's just a marketing problem now... how to
    get the right goods to the right buyers.  Exposure is one good
    strategy.  Find another good friend - be very honest with them!  When
    one starts to pay  some attention to you, YOU WILL NOT BELIEVE how your
    mind set turns!  Wow, I really do have something to offer!
    
    * Tell your boss.   Depression will effect your work.  Don't jeopardize
    your income any more than you have to.  Its not easy getting another
    high tech job.
    
    * Time does heal.   Over time you will never forget but there will be
    fewer and fewer triggers to set you off.  Oddly, good thing we dont
    forget because you honestly can learn much more about YOU and PEOPLE to
    do a MUCH better job the next time.  Try and learn!
    
    * Try and buy the book ..  " UNCOUPLING "  written by a professor from
    Boston College ( my alma mater but can't remember her name )  Its great
    because it gives you an emotional roadmap of ..  where you were,  are
    now, and what's ahead before you are all over it.   Beleive me,  just
    knowing the stages and identifying yourself within them is a big
    relief.  Mile markers make the trail much shorter and more navigatable!
    
    There are other things, but most have been mentioned.  
    
    I can be a good set of ears too.  Take the opportunity to call any of
    the respondents.  We are here.
    
    /t
    There a
    
    

    I too have been where your at....if you want to know what, where
    when, why, you can send mail....or call.  There is a lot of help
    that can be received.
    
    LL

            <<< QUARK::NOTES_DISK:[NOTES$LIBRARY]MENNOTES.NOTE;1 >>>
                         -< Topics Pertaining to Men >-
================================================================================
Note 398.23                     Divorce isolation                       23 of 23
MILPND::SHELTRY "If you build it..."                120 lines  12-APR-1990 09:15
               -< Supporting the About_to_Be Separated/Divorced >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    An old (length of time known, not age) friend called me last night to
    say she's given her husband of 14 years (15 in July) the boot out the
    door.  They've apparently been having problems for several weeks and it
    came to a head a couple nights ago.  I've known the couple for a long
    time. The husband and I have known each other since 7th grade.  The
    wife and I have been friends for about 8 years, though it seems like a
    life time.

    I know the situation from only the wife's perspective, mostly because
    she's more open with her feelings than her husband is and also because
    he'd probably turn to a closer friend before he would me.  This is what
    I've gathered from the 2 hour talk with her last night.

    Husband - tension has been building and he suddenly realized that he's
    unhappy in their marriage. He'll be 34 in May.  He's not physically
    abused her (thank goodness, though I don't think he's the type anyway).
    He's apparently got his eye on a new girl in town; her arrival seems to
    coincide to the feeling of discontentment in the marriage.  She doesn't
    think he's having an affair yet, but it's certainly a possibility (if
    not now, then soon).  He either comes home from work and plops himself
    in front of the tv for 4 hours (without more than a Hi to the Mrs.) or
    he stays out at the local bar until 1:00 in the morning.  His mindset
    of late is that most, if not all, of the past 14 years has been
    anything but enjoyable.

    Wife - that last sentiment above was quite a surprise to her.  They are
    childless for various reasons, though he seems to be blaming her for
    that right now.  She's had enough stress on her recently to choke a
    horse.  Her mom died of cancer last year, her father has been gone for
    several years, her only blood family is a married sister, the couple
    has a business together, she's trying to get a better education (which
    seems to be making him jealous for some unknown reason), and she's
    working ungodly hours for a CPA through the tax season.  She'll be
    getting her Associates Degree in business from a local Vocational -
    Technical College in mid-May.  Her prospects of getting a good job in
    the small town where they live are poor.  She also doesn't want to stay
    there now that they are separating and filing for divorce.

    She called me to see if she could stay with me for a while (length of
    stay undetermined and not important).  She wants to continue with
    school and make her own life, now more than ever.  She also wants to
    get a part time job so that she can finish school.  Her chances of this
    are much better in my part of the state than where she lives now.

    I live in a 2-bedroom apartment and have the space to take her in until
    she gets settled into a job and school here.  Her husband apparently is
    jealous (news to me, also) of the relationship that she and I have.
    Other than a brother/sister-type relationship, we don't have a
    relationship.  It's friendship, pure and simple.  As far as she was
    concerned, she was (mostly) happily married and has never gone looking
    for more.  That's not her intent in moving in with me, either.  She
    needs support, a chance at getting her life to a point where she's
    really happy, and can get a good job that satisfies her.  I'm single
    and not looking for a relationship...I really enjoy being on my own.
    (Seeing what, from my point of view, was a near-perfect marriage fall
    apart, I'm not in a rush to go out and get married anyway).
    
    For economic reasons, I was about to advertise for a male roommate.  I
    don't have anything (I think) against female roommates, but in a living
    situation, I'm more comfortable living with a guy.  I don't know if
    that's old-fashioned attitude or just my nature.  But, because she
    needs someone to turn to and took the chance at turning to me, I'm not
    going to turn her away.  My attitude is that you don't turn your back
    on family, whether blood or not.  Actually, I'd do the same for any of
    my friends in the same situation.

    Well, anyway, what I'm looking for is basic advice.  I know that a fair
    amount of women also read this conference, so I hope I'll get a good
    perspective from both the sexes.  

    She's coming down next weekend to get a start on job hunting.  I've
    advised her to come with a resume in hand and that her best starting
    point is probably an employment agency in the area.  First off, does
    anyone in the Manchester/Merrimack/Nashua area have a recommendation on
    an agency?  I've already dug out the local Help Wanted ads from the
    Sunday NH paper and the Sunday Globe.

    Schools are in abundance in that area so that's not a big issue, though
    a helpful pointer to one of the better colleges would be appreciated,
    preferably one that has evening/weekend courses.  The reality is that
    most jobs are day jobs so her schedule has to be flexible.  NHC in
    Manchester was my first recommendation, but then again I'm biased
    because I graduated from there 12 years ago.  I, too, am looking to
    take a course or two to continue with my degree, so the info would
    benefit us both.

    For those women in the conference who've had to start out on there own
    again:

	  1.  What type of support would you look for, being newly
              separated?
    
	  2.  She's worried about disrupting my (homebody) lifestyle.
	      How do I ease her conscience?

	  3.  How do I support her without being condescending and
	      patronizing?

    For those guys in the conference:

	  1.  Would you feel comfortable having a friend (whose husband
              is also your friend) move in with you?

	  2.  How would you support such a friend?

    I'm basically very easygoing, so I don't really have any real problems
    with my friend coming to stay, regardless of how long.  I could be
    giving up some of my 'freedom' because I don't think I'd be as apt to
    come and go as I please, knowing that she needs somebody around who
    cares.    I'm pretty confident that things will work out for all
    parties involved, but the little what-if's should be thought about.
    "What if she feels like she's crowding me and changing my lifestyle?"
    "What if I, for some unknown reason, begin to feel like she is, even
    though I'm saying I don't think it'll happen."  "Would she be better
    off looking for a female roommate in the area?"  These may be silly and
    there may also be a thousand more silly questions, but I want to
    support her and be able to do what's right for me at the same time.

Wayne    

    Just a thought...

    Has you're friend considered the implications of initiating the
    separation and then moving in with a male roommate?  The two of you
    know it's platonic, but it may be difficult to prove in court
    should her husband decide to get nasty and attempt to take her to the
    cleaners.  It may be wise for her to consult a lawyer before she
    moves from the marriage domicile.

    RE .15... Jerry is right about that... I moved out from my ex and
    into a female friends house when we started my divorce 4.5 years
    ago.  She was going to contest the divorce and try to take me to
    the cleaners saying I was having an affair with my friend... (we
    weren't similar situation to your relationship with your friend)
    If she hadn't been kind enough to look up and contact the guys she
    was seeing at the time I moved in and prior to it, getting them
    to sign papers stating there relationship at the time,  It would
    have been a very nasty case.  As it was it was difficult on my friend
    as one of the guys had been very close indeed when he broke of there
    relationship and she still hadn't "healed" from the experience.
    It is something you should definatly consider with her before she
    moves in at this point and time.
    
    Skip

    There is a divorce support group that meets on Tuesday nights 7:15 - ?
    in Wellesley.  The Delphi Center, 20 Walnut Street, Wellesley
    617-237-1202.  The coordinator's name if Florence Gaia.  Its open to
    all divorced, separated, widowed etc.  In the first half of the meeting
    a speaker leads a discussion on some pertinent topic, and the last half
    of the meeting is an open support meeting.  There are about 15 men and
    women 'regulars' who attend, and folks are all in different stages of
    the process.  The support felt this group is outstanding, many tears
    shared, and hugs and phone calls when you most need it.  I highly
    recommend it; it has sure been a lifesaver for me.  

I have recently split up with my fiance' and whilst the support of my
closest male friend has been absolutely critical, I don't think it would have
worked if I'd moved in with him... 

Your friend needs support, but she also needs to start re-building her life...
if she finds a female room-mate in your area, you will be there to give her
support, but she will get female friends too.

The problem I came across when my friend and I went out was that other people
assumed I had a "new boyfriend" and this seemed to stop people from involving
me in "single" things... to an extent I have had to back away from the 
friendship in order to establish a social life... although I don't get on 
with female company as well as I do in male company I am beginning to realise
that socialising with females is the only way of increasing my social circle...
if I go out with one other male, no-one, male or female, will initiate/encourage
conversation as they assume you are a couple.

I would say be there to give her all the support she needs, but be cruel to be
kind and insist she takes some independance...


Xtine

    And if you think you are safe because you're nice middle class
    professional people.

    In Denver this past weekend a US West manager (college degree in
    engineering) broke into the bedroom in his friend's house, where his
    wife went several weeks earlier after leaving him, and shot them both.
    The friend grabbed a gun and shot the husband. Both men are dead and
    the wife is in critical condition in the hospital. Take care, liesl