Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    My best friend at the place I worked before DEC was thoroughly out of
    the closet (he occasionally brought out-of-towners to the South
    Dakota!) and was also one of the most popular, well-respected people
    there.  But - he was very outgoing, worked incredibly hard, it was a PR
    firm (as opposed to a bank, for example), and he still had reason to
    believe that it was hurting his career.
    
    All the other gay co-workers I can think of kept their personal lives
    pretty closely guarded until you went out with them a number of times.
    
    The effect on me was always nil (usually their life-styles were still
    closer to mine than the life-styles of the hetero married people), but
    I heard lots of stories about the minor hassle of opposite sex
    co-workers trying to "convert" them.  Otherwise, it just seemed to be
    the usual fodder for the usual office gossip.
    
    This was in NYC, by the way.  It may be different in New Hampshire, for
    example - everything else is.
    
    Ray

    -.1 seems pretty negative, so I should also mention:
    
    Although my friend did think that it hurt his career in some ways, he
    was still convinced that he had done the right thing - in fact, the
    only thing possible - by coming out.  In the time I knew him, it was
    probably the only decision that I never heard him regret.
    
    Ray

        I assume that this guy works at DEC.  If so I think he might have a
    better chance of letting people know about his orientation without too
    many negative consequences.  You might suggest that read the Notes
    conference for gay/lesbian/bisexual DEC employees.  He would have to
    contace POBOX::RILEY for membership in the conference.
    
        I'd say that in general that we really aren't OK about gay.  There
    are many people here in the U.S. who feel they have the right to assult
    gay men physically and emotionally.  There are those who believe that
    the gays are being punished by god with the AIDS virus.  The folks in
    Concord, CA just voted down a city ordinance which protected people
    with AIDS from discrimination.
    
        BTW, I know that AIDS is not a gay disease, but that's the way some
    people still see it.
    
        I wish the person you know luck and courage.
    
    Tony

	 I agree with Tony that gaining membership to the Gay
	 notesfile(s) is important for this person......the support in
	 there is wonderful!

	 Also, to see some of the things he might run into when he
	 'comes out', either you or him, might want to jump into
	 Soapbox....in Soapbox there is a note about Rights for Gays,
	 Lesbians and Bisexuals.  It is NOT a supportive note, and
	 there is some bitterness in there.....but it might give you
	 an idea of the 'real world' gays deal with....and the
	 attitudes some have toward gays.


	 kath

    I think the decision is a highly personal one that entails both
    personal reasons and the atmosphere of the group. However, even in the
    most accepting of groups a person is likely to find a homophobe.
    In most stories that I have heard 2/3 of the group already had it
    figured out and the other 1/3 were so hopelessly out of tune that it
    made no difference whether they knew or not.
    
    To each his own.
    
    Dj

    oh, yeah, personally I wouldn't do it if my career meant a lot to me.
    
    Dj

    
    I have a friend who is gay and it doesn't affect me either way. He told
    me I accepted it with an "oh" and that was it. If he had told me he was
    dying of cancer it probably would have had a much greater impact on me.
    It is his way of being who he is. It is not a choice between anything
    it is the way.
    
    I can aceept it and let the beat go on.
    
    D.

	re .0

	If he is at the point in his life where he is starting to "come out", 
	he may be having the mixed feelings of, on the one hand, wanting to
	tell everyone that he is gay, and, on the other hand, feeling very
	insecure about what people's reaction will be.  It's a complicated
	time.  

	For me, the thing that helped at work was simply a change
	in my frame of mind.  I used to assume that no one knew, and that
	if they found out they wouldn't like me.  Now, I assume that
	everyone knows, and that, for most people, it doesn't bother them.

	Of course, neither assumption is 100% correct, but the latter attitude
	causes much less insecurity.  It's not, however, necessarily an
	easy point to get to, and depends alot on how comfortable a
	person is with him- or herself.

    
    	I second the suggestion that your friend gain membership to the
    	gay/lesbian/bisexual notesfile to really learn about coming out
    	issues and experiences from other g/l/b's at Digital.
    
    	Also, has your friend checked into the Valuing Differences pres-
    	entations offered by DEC?
    
    	Carla
    

As to how people will react, it depends on where he is.

Here in Colorado Springs, I have known of some straights who are constantly
making jokes about "fags" and who play fun little "jokes" on each other
by paging them and having the return phone number as one of the local 
Gay bars.  I do not know these people personally (I assume, since I haven't
yet heard their names).

On the other hand, I have been more and more out since I started here 
6 years ago.  In the last 2 years I have become out to anyone at the CSC
who wants to find out.  Mostly people hear by word of mouth or they may
assume that I'm gay because of the pictures in my cube of my family.
I have had (relatively) few problems because of it.  Neither my superior
nor hers seem to have any problem with it.  I have found that my fears were
much worse than reality.

For me, the avoidance and half-truths and the discomfort that comes with that
were more than I wished to endure.  I now discuss my life in much the way my
coworkers discuss theirs; I don't hide WHO I went to the movies with, or
the things that my spouse does with our son, or the fact that my June vacation
will be spent out-of-state at the wedding of one of HER relatives.  It is
very natural, and almost as comfortable as when I am around my Gay friends.

         Carol

    I have a few friends who just happen to be gay.  They really
    are a nice group of people. They are all very discreet, i.e.
    they are not 'out' in the sense of the word.
    
    I really think one's sexual preference is irrelevant, but in
    conversations and discussions with them (about 'it'), they
    usually agree that (and I quote) -- "nobody likes a faggot".
    
    This hurts them, but it is the truth to them.  This of course
    is why they are all not 'out' nor do they participate in the
    political life, etc...
    
    I have often wondered why they deny themselves the freedom..but
    they choose to I guess.
    
    This guy should seriously consider his co-workers...there is
    plenty of ignorance out there (men mostly)
    
    joe.
    

    Re: .0
    
    What will the effect be?  It really depends entirely upon the people he 
    works with.  There are two people that I know are gay, but I know them
    through a social organization from college, not work.  In a social
    organization, I think it's more likely you'll have people with similar
    attitudes.  Also, all these people are fairly young; older people might
    be inclined to be less tolerant because they were raised in a different
    moral environment.

>Note 929.0 
>-< Are we really OK about Gay? >-

>I would like some thoughts. 

One of  UNmentioned  benefits  of the GAY Notesfile are the "additional"
resources, such as entry to USENET and more g/l conferences.

From my perspective, i can't see much difference between people whatever
they are (straight, gay,  democrat, Communist, Jews, Palestinians, east,
west, white, black, red .....).

I'm not sure where your friend resides (Great Britain ?), but there must
be some support groups around that  can  help  your friend adjust and/or
get good counsel on whats "best" for them.

>real effect would be at the office? Has anyone done it/ seen it done?

I'll probably get yelled at for this,  but  if all the G/L who work for
DEC stood up and shouted all at once every building would shake.

Betcha more than a few Hets would also .... ;^)

>Very best ... Love ... Trevor



>-< Are we really OK about Gay? >-

Yeah, some are ...  but since I'm not  [ sic, gay], i still hear the gay
bashing from peers .....