Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    
 	My girlfriend keeps reminding me that "Love is and action and
    only time will tell" when it comes to matters of relationship security.
    In other words, security and "becoming secure enough" is something
    that's built through time and trust; it's a developed thing. There's
    really no easy formula for saying "at this point I can feel secure"
    - you just feel secure when you can see enough of a "track record"
    that you can trust and belive in it.
    
    	You'll be going through these feeling until that happens *for
    you*, I have to say. It's how you feel and these feeling cannot
    be "overcome" by any token gesture, statement of intent or promise
    made by the other person. Certainly you can let them know how you
    feel without worrying; my guess is that they know already. Stay
    right where you are and see what happens. You'll find out what's
    real!
    
    	Joe Jasniewski

    	I think before you can become secure in a relationship you must
    first be secure with *yourself*.  If you're happy with yourself, then
    the feelings of anxiety and worry that normally accompany insecurity
    will not be as likely to rear their ugly heads, and if they do appear
    will be considerably lessened (at least, this is my experience).


    	Now, for your second question.  I think you're approaching things
    backwards:  instead of "waiting for the other person to just walk out",
    you should be assuming things are fine (unless you have signs or proof
    to the contrary).  Basically, you *have* to trust people; it's kinda
    scary if you think about it, and it means you'll most likely get hurt
    (at times anyway), but there's no help for that.  It's just the way
    things are; you can't win in Life if you don't take risks.


    	I happen to know how you feel.  Early last year, I was dating
    someone for a couple of months and things were going quite well (I
    thought).  Without any warning, and worst of all, *without* even
    talking to ME, she sent me a Dear John at work and that was that.  Boy,
    I have to tell ya I was pretty devestated.  It took quite some time to
    come to grips with everything, and realize it wasn't my fault (she just
    felt things weren't right).  I know how hard it is, but you have to try
    to not hold over things like that from past relationships.  You have to
    approach each new one on different ground.


    	Overcoming those feelings takes time, and patience.  Unfortunately,
    I really haven't found any shortcuts for the tough stuff in life!  But
    you *can* overcome them, and it just may be that the right type of
    person can help you do that.  On the other hand, you may need to do it
    yourself.  It's hard to say.  But if you want to talk to the other
    person, there's only one *real* way to do it:  just be honest.  What
    else can you do?  Approach the other person, and explain how you feel.
    These things are incredibly hard to talk about, but if you're just
    honest about it that's all anyone can reasonably expect.  And I
    wouldn't worry too much about "scaring them away"; if they're good
    folks, they'll be happy you took the time and trouble to talk to them.
    I know I would.  There's just no substitute for Communication in any
    kind of relationship.  And if they're not the kind of person you
    thought they were, isn't it better to find that out?


    	My thoughts, for what they're worth.  Good luck!


    Brian

    Boy, have I been there....
    
    Most of the relationships I've been in have fallen apart at the
    1.5-2 year mark, so as time went by, when the relationship would
    reach that point, I'd just wait for it to end.  Look for signs of
    disaster.  Wonder if he was seeing other people.  Feel useless and
    unappreciated and insecure.  What was I doing wrong? - I'd ask myself.
     What else should I be doing to make sure he doesn't leave like
    the rest of 'em?....and worst of all, when the relationship didn't
    seem to be growing deeper and more meaningful, I'd take that as
    a negative sign that it wasn't going to GET deeper, or the other
    party wanted OUT and was figuring out how to say it.
    
    Maybe when I get successfully past the two year mark I'll magically
    become secure.  After having been in so many dependant relationships,
    it's hard to feel secure that YOU are okay, even if the other person
    doesn't think so, or thinks so and doesn't say so, or thought so
    and doesn't anymore, or will always think so (how's that for covering
    most of the options?)....
    
    What's really difficult is when you're seeing a non-communicative
    person.  Like they say "I like you" or "you're special" once in
    a blue moon.  And they don't understand the need for repetition
    or continued showing of warmth (like the husband who turns to the
    tearful wife and says, "Of course I love you, honey, I married you
    15 years ago, didn't I?  Sheesh, what else do you want?"....
    
    If you can manage the strength, ask for encouragement.  Better yet,
    ask them to PROMISE (this only works if there's trust, of course)
    that they'll tell you IMMEDIATELY if they feel something's wrong
    with the relationship.  Seriously wrong.  That way hopefully you'll
    feel more secure knowing there's this alarm that will go off if
    something's wrong on the other end, and you can worry less.
    
    The worry is the worst part.
    
    -Jody
    

"Unfortunately, I really haven't found any shortcuts for the tough stuff in
life!"

I don't think that there are any real shortcuts...  Sometimes I think life, and
the trials and tribulations that we go through are a 'topologically independant'
path.  The trick is to get from point A to point B, and there are many winding
paths to get from one to the other.  Some take a little longer, but are safer,
others are risky, but they are straighter.  In the end, they all come out about
the same.

Having said that...  You can cut short the deadends, and sidetracks short a
little if you have good judgement, and save your self some misery.  But there's
always that thought, 'if only I work a little harder, a little longer, it will
pan out'.  That makes it hard to give up when it's appropriate.

Jim.

    Some very good replies here.
    
    Security is indeed a relative thing, that is developed over time,
    through consistent word and action in a relationship. Good, honest,
    straight-forward communication is all-important.
    
    >I have found that in the relationships that I have really enjoyed being
    >in, that the other person has just walked away, without any notice. 
    >Now, I'm afraid to let my heart ever go again. When things look like
    >they might be not going 100%, my heart drops to my toes, and I "just"
    >know that the other person is thinking of walking out, and never wants
    >to see me again      
    
    I may be over-interpeting your note, but it sounds like you get
    into all-or-nothing thinking in regards to your relationships.
    Either they are 100% or they are sh*t. The fact that you don't
    notice anything wrong before the other person leaves leads me to
    think that you are not seeing him very clearly before he does just
    that. We all, as humans, have a tendency to see what we want to
    see in loved ones; this is known as "romantic projection". It
    is important to check out that projection against the reality by
    good on-going communication with your partner, without secrets.
    At the same time, no one other human being is going to be able to
    provide you with 100% of your needs fullfillment, and to expect
    this is also unrealistic. I would also take a look to see what
    the different people I got involved with had in comman, and check
    to see if there is a pattern I've been repeating...
    
    -roger
    

    How to become secure in a relationship?
    
    Easy answer.  Make no expectations of the relationship.  Have no
    anticipation for the relationship.  Take it for what it is and not for
    what you (or a book, or magazine article, or your friends and family)
    think it should be.  It flows.  Going against the current only tires
    you.
    
    Kris 

    RE: .6

    I don't agree with you...  I think you need to have expectations in a
    relationship, and you need to have those expectations communicated
    somewhere along the way.  If you have an expectation of just having
    a good time, and not getting serious, and he has an expectation
    of getting married, having six kids, and living happily ever after,
    then you have have two people together with two different agendas, and
    that DOES need to be discussed...

    RE: secure in a relationship...  and what Jody said... Jody.. I agree
    I have the same problem when it comes to the guy I am dating parents
    finding out I have kids...  I've had too many break ups over it, so now
    I dread it, and really need a lot of assurance when it does happen!
    I try to keep it a secret until they get to know me as me, and then
    when it does come up, I am usually in a panic for quite a while... I
    know I need to work through this, and am trying too... maybe .0 can do the 
    same thing..  I'm trying to become better at letting the guy I'm dating 
    know how I feel...  maybe he can let the girl know how he feels??...

"I have the same problem when it comes to the guy I am dating parents finding
out I have kids..."

Isn't this a little at odds with the first part of your note about communicating
expectations?  It seems best to me to communicate the salient facts as soon as
possible, before the person come to mean so much to you that breaking up hurts
so much.

I know what you mean... :-)  It's always a shock for people when they find out
that I have some out of the ordinary ideas and opinions :-)

Jim.

    The quickest way to destroy a relationship is to start dreading its
    end.  Immediately through body language and other ways, this conveys
    that things are now "different", are on edge.  Without meaning to, you
    will ascribe new meanings to old behaviors, you will question things
    you never questioned before.  Whether you ask directly, or if it just
    shows in the form of anxiety and restlessness, you will still send out
    a clear message:  things are different, things are wrong.
    
    In other words, when you start worrying that the relationship might
    end, you create a self-fulfilling prophecy.  Quite likely, you actually
    contribute to the end of the relationship yourself.  
    
    Does the dear departed say "Its not like it used to be", or "We don't
    have fun anymore"?  
    
    The question you must ask is "What changed?"  Me, or them?
    
    I'm not saying you don't have reason to be paranoid.  Well into a long
    relationship, things change.  That is a fact of life.  I hear often
    that relationships end because "things changed".  But changes have to be
    looked at as opportunities, rather than things to be avoided, because
    they are inevitable (thank goodness!).
    
    Maybe .3 got signals that said something was wrong around the 1.5 mark
    several times in a row.  Or maybe just the anxiety triggered the
    change.  Statistically speaking, its odd that the same thing happens
    with the only common element being "you".
    
    After you burn yourself on a hot stove, its hard to try touching it
    again.  But just IMAGINE if the heat of the stove was increased in
    direct proportion to your anxiety at touching it!!!  (Which is pretty
    much EXACTLY what your mind tells you will happen)  Very few people
    would be able to touch the stove again.  Or try the realtionship again.
    Or not be paranoid once the magic number comes up on the calendar.  Its
    hard for me.  Its hard for everyone.
    
    But, we have to.  And the great thing about just "doing it", is that it
    gets easier and easier!  The tricks the human mind can play are
    amazing.  And once you get over the hump of worrying about the
    relationship, and just take it day by day, the easier it gets, and the
    stronger the relationship becomes!
    
    So, in a nutshell (I almost hate to say it, but its so true), 
    
    			"Don't worry, be happy!"
    
    (that song really irritates me, but it is based on sound advice: "When
    you frown, that will bring everybody down").
    
    And as for .4, I think Don McLean summed it up nicely in a song:
    
    		I've heard about people like me,
    		    but I never made the connection.
    		They walk one road to set them free,
    		    and find they've gone the wrong direction.
    		But there's no need for turning back,
    		    'cause all roads lead to where I stand.
    		And I believe we walk them all,
    		    no matter what we may have planned.
    
    Jim
    

    RE: .9
    
         Agreed.  An old friend is in this stage.  Saying that she is
    happier now than she has ever been, but dreading that her guy will 
    dump her.  It's like showing fear to an attacking dog: unadvised.
    
                                    Greg

    
    re: .10
    
    	I don't think you're referring to me, Bubba, but you well could
    	be.
    
    	I'm historically insecure in relationships due to my own honed,
    	dyed-in-the-wool insecurities.  When I feel good about myself I
    	feel good about my relationship.  I have days, sometimes weeks,
    	when I feel like sh!t both internally and externally.  I avoid
    	mirrors.  I avoid looking inwards, too.  I behave like a total
    	irrational goon.  I terrorize myself.  I terrorize whoever I'm
    	with.
    
    	Because I so desperately want to leave myself, because I'm _so_
    	tired of myself during these times, I assume that everyone with
    	me, especially my mate, wants to leave me too.
    
    	We've all heard of out-of-body experiences.  Oh how I'd like to
    	master an out-of-mind experience!  =8-)
    
    	Carla
    

I think that many of us who obsessively worry about the state of relationships
(including friendships) do so because we have proven to be blind to the signals
of gradual change.  It's like walking around a strange room in the dark - we
have little idea of what is "really" going on, so we move cautiously and need
constant explicit reassurance, and end up with a fair number of bruises anyway.

.9 is correct that insecurity itself is destructive - it's irritating as hell
to all parties.  Like so many H_R problems, it can also spiral:  Most people
will be soft-hearted enough to reassure the insecure person that nothing is
wrong even when something is; when a breakup happens despite the reassurances,
it is more evidence for the insecure person that relationships are unfathomable
and likely to disappear without warning at any time.  But it's tough to "not
worry, be happy" when a period of not worrying (and therefore a period of no
adaptation, or a period of unmonitored irrational goonships) almost always 
prefigures a surprise breakup. 

Of course it's much healthier to just watch what's really happening in a
relationship and adapt to it as needed.  Most people aren't capable of doing
this _all_ the time (witness the "head game" victims) and some of us have
problems with it under the best of circumstances.  Through the years, I've
learned to live with the insecurity but censor its expression as much as
possible.  This cuts down on the bother to others but it's no substitute for
clear vision. 

Ray

This is from a very dear friend of mine and I think it says it ALL!



	Hello,

    		My words of wisdom on finding a relationship you can really
    enjoy . Find the person who accepts you for who you are and you can
    except them for who they are. No changes expected from either side you
    like each other because of who you are. Common interest and sharing
    things together makes all the difference in the world. I guess
    Johnathen Bach is responsible for reminding me of what I really was
    looking for.

    		There is so much to be said about common interest and
    backgrounds. If you like doing the same things then it is easy doing
    things together, otherwise if you don't like the same things it
    becomes the hassles of an obligation I'll do this if you do that next
    time (that really sucks). Life is a lot better if you can enjoy doing
    things together that you both like. 

    		Also intellectually and personality wise it's nice to be
    equal. Then you can grow from each other and really bounce off one
    another. You may not have the same type of personality but temperament
    is important bring the other up when they need it and vica-versa.

    		The finally thing and probable the most important is that
    you are best friends. Being best friends is important because as a
    friend you can talk to one another and not take things personal. When
    the initial glow dimmers all the other things are there to fall back
    on then the fire can be stroked and the heat rekindled . That is what
    it is all about.  Life and circumstances have a way of changing things
    but by being friends as well as lovers you can adapt and grow together
    to conquer, accept and adapt to the changes.

    		Sorry for being so philosophical this afternoon but every
    once in awhile I do get that way. Have a great day and enjoy your new
    life and remember I'm still your friend just give a yell if you need 
    anything.

    Love,
    Me

Re: .13
    
    Thanks I feel better...

    - Ed