| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 877.1 | Live Life for YOU, not HIM! | GRANPA::TTAYLOR | Fooled Around and Fell in Love ... | Fri Oct 20 1989 17:35 | 19 |
| Are we dating the same person?! ... I think so!
Seriously, my sweetheart WAS (note: was) the same way. When I started
living my life on MY terms, did my own thing, didn't sit around
waiting, not to mention started dating other people and LET him
know I was dating 'cause I wasn't happy with the situation -- there
was a dramatic change. I explained (without being bitchy) what
MY needs were and how he wasn't fulfilling those needs.
Bet if you do the same, he'll LOVE the challenge, come running and
you'll feel better about your situation 'cause you stated your needs
and it's then up to him to fulfill those needs. If he doesn't care,
he isn't worth the trouble.
Good luck!
Tammi
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| 877.2 | Get him to talk! | BARTLE::LESSARD | | Fri Oct 20 1989 18:21 | 26 |
|
Every woman I know (myself included) has gone through this.
This is NOT your imagination he is playing games. Someone
does not spend every day with you and then drop off the face
of the earth without a reason, and a lot on his mind is
what you call "COLD FEET". Ask if you can talk with
him about how this week off hurt your feelings, and is
there a reasonable explanation for it? DON'T let it go -
get a firm answer. He clearly is sending a message, but
expects you to figure it out.
If he is evasive, make some plans with your friends and
let him know when you MIGHT be available for him to take
YOU OUT.
In don't think men understand what an insensitive thing
this is. It's like asking for a phone number and not
calling! I hated that when I was dating!
I married my "formerly" insensitive partner, so I look at
it as a phase every man must pass through before they
get a grip on reality.
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| 877.3 | Go out, have fun, be unavailable | SPARKL::CICCOLINI | | Fri Oct 20 1989 18:47 | 50 |
| This isn't so much a "head game" as simply seeing what you're made
of. Many men do this a lot. How much can he get away with? I
don't think most men really want to "get away" with things. Most
want to find a woman with self-worth and self-respect and this kind of
stuff separates the women from the girls. He'll walk all over you
if he can but I believe he'd rather chase after and fall in love with
a woman over whom he can't - one who makes him toe the line - one who
makes him declare his love if he wants hers.
If he doesn't tell you he loves you, he doesn't love you! You're
automatically giving him the status and all the benefits of "being in
love with you" without him having to do anything for it such as
open his heart to you. Make him earn the priviledged position you're
giving him so easily. Make it worth something to him. Make *him*
invest emotionally in *you*, too!
Secondly, no number of times he visits you obligates him to see
you another time. As long as you always accept him when we wants you to,
he'll continue to come around only when he wants to. Do you agree on
dates or do you just wait around for him to show up whenever? Are
you ever busy?
Are you assuming he's just like you in that he will, (or should), auto-
matically interpret the situation as you do? Make him spell out for
you what he thinks and wants and stop doing it for him, a la "I know
he loves me". How do you know? Or is it just wishful thinking?
I've said this before - don't make the mistake of assuming your
fidelity obligates him to be faithful to you. Many men skirt the
issue of fidelity, (and "those words") and many women, in an attempt
to demonstrate love,(and sort of "guilt trip" their men into being
faithful), automatically become faithful with no prompting from their SO.
It never works. It's simply a nice situation for a guy for as long as
he can milk it and make you think he loves you without ever having
to commit himself to those words. When push comes to shove, he
can simply say, "Hey - I never said I loved you!" Beware!
If he has not told you he loves you, *he's not ready for love with
you*. Continue to date others.
If he has not explicitly asked you to be faithful and offered his
fidelity in return, *he's not ready for fidelity*. Continue to date
others. No one has given you a reason not to.
If your question is, how can you MAKE him ready for love and fidelity,
the answer is obvious. You can't. You can only be the one he wants
or not. And if you nag him about reciprocating a behavior he never
asked of you in the first place, (or if you simply expect he will or
should reciprocate), you are setting yourself up to not be the one he
ultimately wants, only the one he'll accept for now.
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| 877.4 | Tell him to get off the pot!!! | TRNPRC::SIGEL | Welcome to Your Life | Fri Oct 20 1989 19:42 | 7 |
| If you are looking for a long term relationship, beat around the bush
to see if he says anything about marriage. If he is not interested,
find someone that is. Some men are not ready for the "Big Commitment".
Hang in there!
Lynne
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| 877.5 | Games and emotions just don't mix | CREDIT::BNELSON | You will make some sense of it | Sat Oct 21 1989 16:38 | 45 |
|
Head games are something I personally will not abide. Life is too
short, and there are too many other folks out there who *don't* play
head games to put up with that nonsense. If there comes a time that I
feel I'm being jacked around emotionally -- i.e., on that good ol'
emotional rollercoaster -- I have to say, "Sayonara". It just ain't
worth it to me (my emotions are not on puppet strings).
The rough talk aside ;-), I also can't imagine myself leaving
without at least attempting to talk to the person. Maybe they don't
realize what they're doing, or how it's affecting you. Whatever the
case, you *DON'T* know what the other person is thinking, no matter how
long you've known them. The only real way to try to deal with
something is to try to talk it out. Compromise, reach an agreement of
some sort. If that doesn't work, then you know you made an honest
effort to maintain and it'll be easier to walk away from.
"Signs"? Hmm, that's tougher; every situation is different because
every relationship is different. I think the best you can do is sit
down and *really* think things over: Is this what you want? Does this
*truly* seem right? Are you happy and fulfilled (that is, are you
getting out of it what you need)? Try to be objective, if you can; of
course, this is one of the toughest things to do!
As for "why", that's another tough one. My best guess is
immaturity. I think people who play head games haven't really come to
grips with who/what they are, and perhaps are even afraid to do so.
That being the case, I think they're (deep down) afraid of committing
to someone else when they haven't truly discovered themselves yet.
It's my opinion that if you're really happy with yourself, you lose the
need for any games. But then that's just me. ;-) BTW, I am not
saying that all immature people play games nor am I saying that all
people who play games are immature. I simply see it as being one
possible cause.
Good luck.
Brian
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| 877.6 | *IS* it s head game? How do you know? | CADSYS::BAY | J.A.S.P. | Sat Oct 21 1989 19:18 | 152 |
| <<< Note 877.3 by SPARKL::CICCOLINI >>>
-< Go out, have fun, be unavailable >-
>This isn't so much a "head game" as simply seeing what you're made of.
>Many men do this a lot. How much can he get away with? I don't think
>most men really want to "get away" with things. Most want to find a
>woman with self-worth and self-respect and this kind of stuff separates
>the women from the girls. He'll walk all over you if he can but I
>believe he'd rather chase after and fall in love with a woman over
>whom he can't - one who makes him toe the line - one who makes him
>declare his love if he wants hers.
If you ask me (to whit, a "guy") I'd say this is ADVOCATING a head
game. I apologize in advance, because this response is threatening to
me. But I'll try to maintain HR guidelines and address content, with
emotion only as absolutely necessary.
I have no idea what is going on in your (.0) guy's head, but when I see
"Many men do this" it smacks of generalization. And I read this
response (.3) as impling that "this" thing that many men do is playing
head games to see how you react.
I have been in situations where I reacted the way you described your
S.O. as acting, and it WASN'T a head game. I am CERTAIN it felt that
way to the person that I was involved with, but I have NEVER and will
NEVER "test" the fibre of the other person by doing things that are out
of character for me or not in line with my true intentions (hence my
definition of a "game").
Things like "playing hard to get" are games. This particular one has
been around a LONG time, and has earned acceptance with longevity.
But its a GAME, and its not right to do that to the other person. You
are advocating playing a game to flush out the other player! These
are human relations you are talking about! Geez! (oops, flame off)
>If he doesn't tell you he loves you, he doesn't love you! You're
>automatically giving him the status and all the benefits of "being in
>love with you" without him having to do anything for it such as open
>his heart to you. Make him earn the priviledged position you're
>giving him so easily. Make it worth something to him. Make *him*
>invest emotionally in *you*, too!
Wrong! Wrong, wrong, wrong! WRONG! We are NOT clinical psychologists
here, but am I the only one that understands that "saying" I love you
is *NOT* synonymous with loving someone, and that NOT saying "I love
you" does NOT negate the possibility of loving???
SHOULD people say I love you? YES! But define "say".
Has your relationship lasted a significant period of time? That
doesn't NECESSARILY mean that the other person loves you... BUT it
MIGHT! It depends on how that person expresses themselves and how they
feel about committment.
Has the person given you gifts or flowers? That doesn't NECESSARILY
mean that they love you. But that MIGHT be a way they try to say it to
you.
I have given gifts and flowers to an S.O. when I didn't "feel" it. AND I
have given gifts and flowers when I couldn't think of any stronger way
to say I cared. I have said "I LOVE YOU" and lied. I have said "I
LOVE YOU" and meant it far more strongly than those simple words can
convey.
AND, I have loved in complete silence, without ever expressing my
emotions outwardly to the target of my affection.
Is he playing games with you? It seems like it to you right now. That
feels real and it hurts. And its real hard to get past the way things
"feel" to you.
But it sounds like you are getting mixed signals. On-off. Hot-cold.
Yes-no.
Why? Why does he say "yes" then "no"? Why is he VACILLATING? I
emphasize that word because that is what I felt when I went through
this from his side. I felt strongly about the other person, but I felt
threatened by them. I was attracted and repelled.
In my PSYCH-I class we learned about "approach-avoidance", where a rat
gets shocked when he attempts to get the cheese. He goes closer and
further, closer and further. Perhaps as he gets hungrier and gets
closer, maybe even close enought to get a bite, before running away
again.
Why does your S.O. come close then run away again? It could be fear of
committment. It could be he doesn't like your Mom. Or how you dress.
It could be he doesn't like HIMSELF (hes not good enough for you). It
could be anything!
The most important thing right now is that you are getting mixed
signals, and you don't know WHY. YOU MUST FIND OUT. You must
communicate. You must discuss.
And I suggest you be ready for some suprises. That is what makes human
relations interesting.
It may be somthing quite difficult, or quite simple and natural. Right
now you don't KNOW, and NO ONE in this conference can tell you why.
Maybe it is something that is totally off the wall and irreconcilable.
Maybe it is something silly and trivial. Maybe it is not even REAL!
Perceptions can be really screwy sometimes!
But until you know what it is, it is very real for both of you, and the
fear of what it is doing to you, and the pain you are feeling can and
will drive a stake in the relationship until you find out what it is.
TALK. More important, LISTEN. Don't rationalize. Don't explain.
Don't apologize. Just LISTEN.
>Are you assuming he's just like you in that he will, (or should), auto-
>matically interpret the situation as you do? Make him spell out for
>you what he thinks and wants and stop doing it for him, a la "I know
>he loves me". How do you know? Or is it just wishful thinking?
At least here we *tend* to agree. I question the "demanding" tone this
implies: "MAKE him spell out for you". My feeling is that compassion
goes a lot further than ultimatums.
But I agree that you both need to understand each other better and
express your feelings more clearly (or at least UNDERSTAND when
feelings are being expressed). But I really believe that communication
is key.
Communication comes hard to me. I find it difficult to tell someone
that I care a lot about that "I NEED THIS WEEKEND OFF TO BE BY MYSELF".
I feel like this is an insult. *I* would take it that way, so why
should someone I care about understand it any differently? It would be
difficult for me to give my S.O. time off when I *REALLY* needed some
time ON. But if you can't express needs like that to each other now,
do you really think that it will get easier after you have a LEGAL
COMMITTMENT to live with this person day in and day out until death do
you part? Believe me, you'll part long before death!
Well, I'm starting to wax maudlin here, so I'll duck before the cannons
start to fly.
But, .0, I humbly suggest you talk it out, instead of watching it
happen by remote control. Maybe he is playing games. But you can only
find out from the gamemaster, or your loving S.O., whichever he happens
to be. Your answers are not in this conference.
And .1, .2, .3, I humbly suggest you try not to BLAME head games on men
and imply that it is strictly their domain, and then turn around and
advocate a head game as a response! People (men AND women) play head
games, there ain't no doubt. But we often see something from our point
of view and call it a head game, when the poor bastard/bitch on the
other end is just trying to figure out which end is up, and maybe even
how to possibly avoid HURTING YOU!
Jim
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| 877.7 | I've cooled off now... | CADSYS::BAY | J.A.S.P. | Sat Oct 21 1989 19:35 | 33 |
| P.S. *YOU* shouldn't be the one that has to do the initiating. You
shouldn't have to do all the listening. In fact, you have to draw the
line at where you stop the initiating and let him carry his own weight.
But don't cut off your nose to spite your face. Human relations are
give and take. You have to decide if it time for you to "give" and
initiate communication to find out whats going on, or "take" and
withdraw so that he must resign the relationship and or "give" and
initiate himself.
You are both young, and these lessons aren't taught in school (any
school *I* know of). Perhaps giving now is an investment in a lifetime
of happiness. Perhaps its not worth it. Again, *YOU* must decide, and
you can't base your decision on the experiences of other people with
different values and beliefs.
I know what it means to give and give and give without return. And I
know how it feels to give up. There is no joy in either. But it seems
like saving this one is going to take some giving, and it doesn't sound
like he's going to pop wide open and start, at least not this time.
Re. my last, perhaps bitter remarks about what seemed to me to be
bitter remarks, I guess we've all been there, all tried, and all failed
at some point. I guess no one knows when the best time to give up or
keep trying is. And the trying part certainly gets laid at the woman's
doorstep a lot.
But not always, ok?
Sorry. Friends?
Jim
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| 877.8 | thanks... | MTADMS::DOO_SECURITY | Soaring with Eagles | Sat Oct 21 1989 20:08 | 14 |
|
RE:> .6 & .7
Jim,
I would like to say thank you. Your last two replys really
hit home with me. I never thought someone would be able to put
all of that into simple words.
Thanks for saving my nose....
Penny
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| 877.9 | A few stray thoughts... | MINOS::FINK | Dixieland Delight | Sun Oct 22 1989 02:41 | 29 |
|
Re .2 & .3:
I wonder about the phrase that "many men do this". So do some
women. I had a great friendship going with someone recently,
and, all of a sudden, I don't hear from her anymore. Note that
I said "friendship", not relationship. Due to the long physical
distance between us, "friends" would be the only thing possible.
Anyhow, we were having a great time together during a visit, and
all of a sudden she seemed sort of `distant'. In the few weeks
since, I have not heard a word from her. This in spite of several
attempts on my part. (vaxmail and all that) Kind of annoying,
as we were much closer, to the point of mail messages several
times a day and phone calls as well...
I still haven't figured out what happened. There were no pretenses
of a commitment on either side, but a nice friendship seems to
have suddenly gone down the tubes. :-(
Basically I just wanted to mention that it's not only men who
play head-games. There are inconsiderate people on both sides
out there.....
-Rich
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| 877.10 | my experience | VIDEO::MORRISSEY | As the wheels turn | Mon Oct 23 1989 15:35 | 37 |
|
Although this is different from you situation I thought I would
share it.
Six years ago I met a guy and instantly became attracted to him.
He was kind of quiet and kept to himself. Like me. We became
friends. One night he gave me a ride home and we held hands.
I thought "great". But someone later told him of my interest
and he backed off. Oh, he would still talk to me and all but
what started out as a romantic interest died very quickly.
From that point on he played head games with me like no man
has ever done. But he didn't have to say a word. He used
his eyes. He has the most intense eyes. And they always got
to me. We remained friends and I dated others. At the points
when I was dating someone else was when he paid attention to me
and the head games became more intense. I was a challenge then
because I was seeing someone else. I don't know if it was because
he wanted to see if I'd drop my new guy "like a hot potato" just
for him or what. But it went on for years. We lost touch for
a long time. He started to hang around with some unsavorable
people who I didn't want to have anything to do with. He got
engaged and so did I. His engagement dissolved (thank God, I
couldn't stand the woman he was engaged to) but mine hasn't. :-)
We've recently come back into contact with each other. And he
has changed quite a bit. He is now this funny, sensitive, mature
guy. There is still an attraction between the two of and probably
always will be. But I think we're better friends now because
we never became involved.
I'm not really sure what the whole point of this note is but
sometimes men (and women) play head games because they're
insecure about themselves and this is their way of a test.
Does that make sense?
JJ
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| 877.11 | | APEHUB::RON | | Mon Oct 23 1989 16:03 | 33 |
|
I think .3 understands the situation well, when he/she says "This
isn't so much a "head game" as simply seeing what you're made of.".
In other words, it's a 'power play', not a 'head game'. I agree
with little else in .3, however.
First, it's not necessarily true that "Many men do this a lot.".
Some people do, men and women alike. In .0's case, the man may or
may not be playing. Actually, he could easily be labouring under his
own inhibitions.
Second, it is not necessarily true that "He'll walk all over you if
he can". Even if a man has genuine concern about making a commitment
and is also reluctant to speak out, he may still be sincere.
Third, it's not necessarily true that "If he doesn't tell you he
loves you, he doesn't love you!". He could have great affection for
you and still have difficulty articulating it.
So, your question should be, does he love you? Will he walk all over
you if you let him? Is he sincere? Obviously, no one in this
notefile is going to supply a meaningful answer to these questions,
but you and him.
Maybe it's time for you to suggest a discussion of 'you, me, us' and
to approach these questions with him. If he very strongly resists
having such a discussion, this will tell you something, all by
itself. If he opens up, you will then know the reality to your
situation. I don't know about you, but **I** always preferred to
know the truth, even when it was harsher than uncertainty.
-- Ron
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| 877.12 | your decision | YODA::BARANSKI | Happiness is a warm rock in the sun | Mon Oct 23 1989 18:03 | 9 |
| "I find my self in love with this guy.....I know he feels the same way, but just
has not managed to say those words. " I love you". ... He knows I want a
commitment....I told him if he didn't want one then tell me....His reply was I
don't want to lose you.."
He may love you, but not want a commitment. Decide if that is acceptable to you
or not. Don't try to make him decide.
Jim.
|