| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 801.1 | | CSC32::WOLBACH | | Wed Jul 19 1989 21:02 | 14 |
|
Since a child is part of one's life, it seems only logical to
not separate the child from the relationship (I'm not sure how
one would keep the child unaware, anyway).
One caution. Do make certain the relationship has a very good
chance of continuing before introducing the child to the new SO.
If the relationship ends, the child can be very hurt by the loss
of this new adult, if the child has developed a closeness with
this person.
Deb
|
| 801.2 | If it's serious, include the child. | AIAG::LUTZ | | Wed Jul 19 1989 21:29 | 33 |
| I'd suggest to your friend that she do some of each: do things with the S.O.
alone, and do things with the S.O. and her child together. Early on in a
relationship, she'll want to spend more time alone with her S.O. Too, early
on, you don't necessarily know the S.O. well enough to know if you really
*want* to have them around your children that much.
I speak as someone who has been the S.O. in a situation like this. A woman
that I was dating very seriously had two children from her first marriage, and
they were a very important part of our relationship. One of our best dates
(IMHO) was at a nearby playground, chasing the boys around. :-)
These things sort themselves out. It is important that the child doesn't feel
left out by seeing the grown-ups always going off. Your friend & her S.O. might
want to go to the park with him sometimes, or a museum, or just out for pizza.
It won't be the same as being on a date alone, but it's part of getting close
to a person with children. Children are good people to get to know, too!
I will repeat that I don't recommend this *too* early. I'd be a little daunted
if a woman I was dating wanted to bring her kids along on even the third or
fourth date. At that point, you're still getting to know each other a lot.
I'm sure it varies with the situation. She should talk it over with her S.O.
One last thing: if her S.O. becomes an important part of her life, the child
will be jealous. I don't know how many times I heard, "Mommy, you don't love
me anymore!" :-) Yes, it gets tiring, but it's to be expected, too.
Children are children, and most people should accept that they'll be immature
sometimes.
As for the woman who used to be my S.O., we split up. It was us, not the kids.
I have bittersweet memories about her, but mostly sweet one about the boys.
I'm glad I got to know them all.
Scott
|
| 801.3 | Take it slowly? | ASD::HOWER | Helen Hower | Thu Jul 20 1989 20:20 | 41 |
| Well, another option is to hold off till the two of you get married/move in
together before you introduce your new SO to your kids... though it's a bit
late to find out that he *really* didn't enjoy having kids around. :-) :-)
Seriously. I agree that you don't want to expose your child, regardless of
age, to a series of, shall we say, exploratory relationships. Though perhaps
you DO want to make a practice of doing things as threesomes, on a casual
basis, with friends of both sexes. It makes the serious ones less of an event,
and can be a useful technique to gradually introduce your child (and friend!)
into an increasingly more serious relationship. Maybe the frequency of your
child's involvement should be somewhat equivalent to the seriousness of the
relationship?! After all, if things works out, you'll be a "permanent"
threesome....
(brief digression: it may help on the first few outings if you and your
new/emerging SO maintain about the same level of physical affection as
you would with any more casual friend. Even later, remember to include
your child in some of the hugs, hand holding, or whatever, so they don't
feel left out. And now back to my long-winded reply ;-)
Yes, you'll probably have to contend with jealousy. After all, especially if
you've been divorced for a while, the kids have become used to your undivided
attention, and they *are* losing some of that. This will be even more likely
if you always see your new SO without them - they'll get the impression that
it's an either-or deal: them or him. I'm not sure whether toddlers are any
different in this respect than older kids; it's probably harder if they're an
only child, and haven't had to share mommy/daddy with anyone else. Also be
prepared for the possibility that your child may view this as having to choose
between your SO and the other parent - even if none of you ever intended for
it to be presented this way. (sigh) Like most of parenting, it takes patience,
awareness and communication to work it out.... :-)
I very much understand the concern that the child may feel abandoned (again)
if they become attached to the new SO, then things don't work out after all.
It's a good reason to be cautious, and to move slowly in introducing more
frequent joint ("family"?) outings. It's also pretty unlikely that any young
child would *not* get attached to someone you like and he/she has fun with....
I don't know how to avoid it; only solution is to move cautiously to minimize
the number of times it happens, and to recognize and deal with it if it does.
Helen (another single parent who's had to deal with this :-)
|
| 801.4 | another option.... | SALEM::SAWYER | but....why? | Wed Jul 26 1989 16:52 | 50 |
|
i've been a single parent for 14 years. in the beginning i found
that the women i dated usually tried playing "mother" to my kids
almost as soon as they met them.
i put a stop to that!
"you can be friends with my kids but DON'T PLAY MOTHER!"
my daughters, when they were younger and more inclined to be
moved by peer pressure, would ask me if i were going to get
married again so they could "have a mother".
i told them that;
1. i probably won't get married again
2. even if i did get married the person i wed would NOT be their
mother!....she'd be their friend (hopefully) and my mate but NOT their
mother. (you only really have one mother and father)
3. "we don't need no mother!"....i tried to condition them into
believing that the 3 of us were perfectly happy and didn't need
any "mother".
they met many of the women i dated and were generally able to establish
friendships with these women. i guess they got use to my having
different relationships with different women. they never were jealous
or cold to the women i dated though the levels of closeness they
achieved with the different women varied from relative indifference
to pleasant friendliness.
the last female i lived with (hi lorna!), who happens to still be
my best and closest friend, understood all this and agreed with
it. she and my daughters were able to establish a very nice relation-
ship based on friendship and not on pseudo-parenthood.
basically...i think that nuclear families playing pseudo mom or
pseudo dad tends to be confusing to the kids and, as someone
pointed out, if/when the relationship ends their can be even more
trauma because yet another parent has fled their lives...
and chances are, the pseudo parent aint gonna show up on visiting
days!
i thought it best to hit them with reality...
" the relality, kids, is that this new person is not your mother
and never will be your mother and i aint gonna let her play mother
cus she'll probably never really love you like i do as your REAL
parent so let's not play confusing and traumatic games....be friends
with this person but don't start thinking of her as your new mama!"
it worked out well!
|
| 801.5 | They SHOULD form bonds. | GBMMKT::VACCHELLI | She is great isn't she?? | Wed Jul 26 1989 18:29 | 14 |
|
That is the coldest ugliest thing I have ever heard! Fine its good
to be friends with the kids but if you were going to go about trapsing
in one women after another and not even TRY to establish some kind
of commitment anywhere what is that going to say to your girls about
stability and man women relationships? (breath) I think that is
garbage and its disgusting besides. Who says that a stepparent
or a girlfriend/boyfriend wouldn't be a better parent than the one
they had before or love them as much for that matter?
You are pretty selfish IMO. Especially if the absent parent abandoned
or died.
Katrina
|
| 801.6 | please don't get so insulting... | SALEM::SAWYER | but....why? | Wed Jul 26 1989 18:54 | 89 |
| :Note 801.5
:GBMMKT::VACCHELLI
: -< They SHOULD form bonds. >-
yes...we all should form bonds....
i'll buy that.
but forming bonds DOESN'T have to be with 1 person forever...
it can be with many people of various sexes (how many are there?)
for different lengths of time....
: That is the coldest ugliest thing I have ever heard!
well....i don't think so....
i'm sorry you do!....but you have a right to believe what you want
to and i (having been told so often by noters) don't have a
right to try and change your mind....
: Fine its good
: to be friends with the kids but if you were going to go about trapsing
: in one women after another and not even TRY to establish some kind
: of commitment anywhere what is that going to say to your girls about
: stability and man women relationships? (breath)
1. i don't believe in "commitment forever"....i don't think it's
important! that's my choice...
i have a right to that choice....i like that choice...and i present
it as a choice for my children....
2. i hope what it says about stability and man/woman relationships
is this; no one knows how long they will love you
you don't know how long you will love anyone
it doesn't matter.
don't expect too much from people and try to give as
much as you want to for as long as you want to.....but...if you
feel like ending a relationship...go ahead!
: I think that is garbage and its disgusting besides.
well, i don't. and i know many people who also don't think that
way.
i find your reply to be (obviously) insulting and antagonistic...
but...i forgive you!
:-)
: Who says that a stepparent
: or a girlfriend/boyfriend wouldn't be a better parent than the one
: they had before or love them as much for that matter?
not me!...i didn't say that!...i said i didn't want to play that
game. i said i didn't believe it was necessary. i said i chose to
bring my kids a different way.....a way that i think was best for
the 3 of us....and..i think it worked fine....
:You are pretty selfish IMO.
i don't think so. i'm sorry you feel that way.
my kids are very happy and very well adjusted. they seem to have
suffered no traumas at the loss of a step parent or 2.
: Especially if the absent parent abandoned
:or died.
the absent parent set about on a new life.....my best to her!....
and to you...
Katrina
i'm forever disappointed in many of you people....
were i to respond in such a blatantly angry, admonishing, judgemental
manner i would be chastised for...
telling people how to live!
i know many of you don't agree with my beliefs...
ok...fine....
but please don't judge them so harshly!
for the most part these beliefs have worked fine for me and my
daughters....
we're very happy!
you may choose to live your lives anyway you want to....
i choose to present alternatives....
you don't have to listen to them, follow them or even like them...
but you sure should try to respect them....and be less judgemental
about them....
i wouldn't dare call your points of view....garbage and disgusting...
because it's wrong to bethat judgmental....AND....you wouldn't tol-
erate that from me!....
kindly keep you replies sans such insults....
thanks
rik
|
| 801.7 | | APEHUB::RON | | Wed Jul 26 1989 18:59 | 31 |
|
RE: .5
> ... what is that going to say to your girls about stability
> and man women relationships? (breath)
I think it's going to say EXACTLY what .4's author intends it to.
Whether you (or I, for that matter) approve or not is beside the
point. Neither is it 'garbage', 'coldest', 'ugliest' or
'disgusting', just because we approve or not.
No one has the right to judge.
I have had the experience of raising two daughters in a very stable
atmosphere. They are now grown up enough to be able to look back and
evaluate their upbringing. They have both stated that one of the
things they appreciated most was the solid foundation of the
household.
In the case of .4, there is no mother. The author has to function
within this REALITY. He chose to stabilize the family by providing
the kids with an insight into the future. They do not have to wonder
what will happen with every new girl friend. They already know.
Based on my experience, I think this is good for them.
I do not see myself ever in .4's position, but if I was, I expect
I'd do the same. Do you see a a better (that is, for the kids)
course of action?
-- Ron
|
| 801.8 | I'm sorry for the way I described my feelings | GBMMKT::VACCHELLI | She is great isn't she?? | Wed Jul 26 1989 20:12 | 10 |
|
My apologizes! I am not usually so closed minded but I feel that
a child should have the experience of seeing a loving relationship
between a man and a woman that can be sustained. Ideally their
mother and father. That can't always be so though.
Once again I apologize. Sometimes we over react to those things
near to our heart.
Katrina
|
| 801.9 | | ACESMK::CHELSEA | Mostly harmless. | Wed Jul 26 1989 20:12 | 7 |
| Re: .6
>but forming bonds DOESN'T have to be with 1 person forever...
So why should the mother bond only be with one person, however long it
lasts? Why can't another person fill the mother role and build a
mother bond?
|
| 801.10 | Wondering | PENUTS::JLAMOTTE | J & J's Memere | Wed Jul 26 1989 20:34 | 11 |
| Under the scenerio that Rik so often shows us...I wonder if his
daughters ever wondered if maybe his love for them would last
forever.
I also wonder if they feel an obligation to him as their parent
to believe in his philosophies.
Accepting reality and saying that often relationships do not last
forever is a lot different then saying I don't choose to have lasting
relationships.
|
| 801.11 | age matters | YODA::BARANSKI | Looking for the green flash | Wed Jul 26 1989 21:26 | 28 |
| RE: garbage
Your note is more disgusting and garbage to me then *any* note Ric has ever
wrote! Why is this issue ***so*** near and dear to your heart?
RE: Ric's scenario
I can't see Ric's choices as any worse then a dozen other common ones. The one
regret that I have in being divorced is that I will not be able to present my
children with the experience of how a marriage/family should be. But then I
wasn't likely to be able to do that staying married to their mother either.
I in general try to be "friends" with SOs' children and vice versa. However, my
SOs have been very much a 'mother'/parent/authority figure to my children. I
think that's mostly because my kids are 2 and 4, and the fact that I "authorize"
my SO to be the authority figure in certain situation and I make sure my kids
know who is the boss. And they know that if they don't behave they will face
the consequences from me.
Conversely, when I am relating to a SOs' children who are older, say teen age, I
definitely do not try to parent them. They don't need it, and I don't need the
hassle. I try to support the parent in their role and comfort them and talk
with them about their kids, but they are not my responsibility, and I don't want
the responsiblity. I do accept authority on some situations, but it is still as
a mutual agreement or persons deserving respect, rather then getting into a
'parent' trip.
Jim.
|
| 801.12 | is 2 better than 3? | SALEM::SAWYER | but....why? | Thu Jul 27 1989 16:09 | 94 |
| re: Katrina...
is ok...!
am no longer offended! :-)
:Note 801.10
:PENUTS::JLAMOTTE
: -< Wondering >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
: Under the scenerio that Rik so often shows us...I wonder if his
: daughters ever wondered if maybe his love for them would last
: forever.
i know of many parents who don't love their children. i know of parents
who display favoritism to one or another child......or children who
don't love their parents...
it happens...
i never got to know my father very well and i never developed a love
for him....
but that's ok....
i love my mother....
i THINK/BELIEVE/FEEL that i will love my daughters forever...
but who knows?
things happen....relationships become estranged....
is life.
: I also wonder if they feel an obligation to him as their parent
: to believe in his philosophies.
i assume you mean just like the obligation your kids feel to you
as their parent to believe in your philosophies?
i present my philosophies and beliefs to my children.
i also present YOUR philosophies and beliefs to my children...
then i request that they read/think more on the subject and make up
their own minds....
do you present my beliefs to your children?
: Accepting reality and saying that often relationships do not last
: forever is a lot different then saying I don't choose to have lasting
: relationships.
ok....
but....(if you are against judging people) why do you automatically
judge my way wrong and your way right?
relationships quite often end...
is ok....
is no big deal...
is life...
i choose to accept this and, further, choose to desire multiple
relationships in life....
i, as you have stated before, have no right to tell you to live your
life my way or to judge your life negatively...
why do you think you can judge mine negatively?
why do you think i should live my life your way?
why can't you just say....."what ever works for you is fine"?
:Note 801.9
:ACESMK::CHELSEA
: Re: .6
: >but forming bonds DOESN'T have to be with 1 person forever...
: So why should the mother bond only be with one person, however long it
: lasts? Why can't another person fill the mother role and build a
: mother bond?
i didn't say that....another person can fill that role...
or a dozen other people...
but does it really matter that the role be filled?
when my kids were younger they were met by a barage of...
"no mother?...poor you..."
whereupon i requested that these people say something more
positive like...."you live with your dad?...that must be nice..."
not having a mother (or father) does not have to be a bad thing....
and i feel that when people treat it as a bad thing it adds negative
weights to the child....
"ok kid...feel sorry for your self...you don't have a mother!"
i refused to let my kids grow up feeling sorry for themselves for
not having a mother...
i wanted them to feel happy that they had a loving and caring
parental relationship with me....
why can't the children have a wonderful parental bond with just
one parent?
or...why not 3 parents?...or 10?
why is 2 the perfect number?
|
| 801.13 | slightly tongue in cheek | WMOIS::B_REINKE | If you are a dreamer, come in.. | Thu Jul 27 1989 16:20 | 4 |
| in re why 2 not 3....well two is the normal number in the plant
and animal kingdoms necessary to produce offspring.
Bonnie
|
| 801.14 | gimme a break | PENUTS::JLAMOTTE | J & J's Memere | Thu Jul 27 1989 16:34 | 9 |
| .12
Rik, did I say anyone was wrong?
Did I say what my philosophies were?
All I was doing was wondering....
|
| 801.15 | why is non-standard bad? | SALEM::SAWYER | but....why? | Thu Jul 27 1989 16:34 | 23 |
|
elk have 1 male, lotsa females, and all the females care for
the young.....
and we aint animals....
and my point is....why is any number of parents above or below
2 (1 male and i female) considered...bad?...wrong?...unhealthy?
negative?
why can't we just accept 1 parent, 3 parents, 10 parents ALONG
with 2....
just because 2 is normal...
or the required amount to have children....(actually, women can
have children without a father today)...
why can't we just accept other alternatives as being acceptable...?
other tangents....adoption?
gays adopting?
communal living?
|
| 801.16 | | HPSRAD::KIRK | Matt Kirk -- 297-6370 | Thu Jul 27 1989 18:34 | 5 |
|
>> and we aint animals....
We "ain't"? Depends on what universe you live in, I guess. In this one,
humans are animals.
|
| 801.17 | First hand experience | JULIET::APODACA_KI | The Nuclear Turnip | Thu Jul 27 1989 18:53 | 21 |
| The introduction to a new SO to a child in your custody is like
walking a fine line with two big drop offs on each side--it ain't
easy, and I sure wouldn't want to do it. Thankfully (for me) I
don't expect to have to.
How do I know the trials and tribulations this sorta thing can bring
on? Cause my parents are divorced, and I lived with my dad while
he was single, and then after he remarried. Unfortunately, I cannot
say the transition or the final solution was a good one, for my
natural brother, or my four step-siblings (or who knows? me either)
so I cannot offer up a sucess story. All I CAN say with great
conviction is, even though you are only dating, if it grows into
something a bit stronger than a casual thing and most especially
if the other person has children too, TRY, TRY TRY to stay out of
the "YOUR kids MY kids rut". I can guarantee nothing good will
come of it, for you, your boyfriend/girlfriend and most especially
the kids.
Zat's all fer now.
kim
|
| 801.18 | or maybe not? | SALEM::SAWYER | but....why? | Thu Jul 27 1989 19:56 | 3 |
| re:.16...ok...we animals....
but aren't we civilized ones?
|
| 801.19 | | HPSRAD::KIRK | Matt Kirk -- 297-6370 | Thu Jul 27 1989 20:09 | 5 |
| IMHO we are no more civilized than many other animals, and in some ways less
so. We are one of the few species, if not the only one, that will hunt
others of its own species for sport.
More developed than some other animals I'll agree to.
|
| 801.20 | ... and we ain't the only humans | ZONULE::WEBB | | Thu Jul 27 1989 22:01 | 8 |
| There are/have been human societies where the parental roles are
shared beyond the pair involved the the act of procreation....
To assume that the ways of twentieth century western society somehow
constitute a norm for humankind is at best parochial.
R.
|
| 801.21 | why poor you | YODA::BARANSKI | Looking for the green flash | Thu Jul 27 1989 22:41 | 21 |
| RE: Ric
'why isn't what works best of me ok?' & 'poor you, no mother'
Mostly because people assume when meeting you that you are the standard model,
and knowing a difference in you that would not work for them, they assume that
it would not work for you. All other things being equal, children would
definitely be worse off without a mother. They don't know that you love and
care for them and that your children love you and you are all happy untill they
get to know you well.
'why isn't more then 2 ok?'
All other things being equal, I'd assume that it doesn't make any difference. I
can see advantages to getting to know a number of people deeply in my life. I
can also see advantages to spending my whole life with one person. It has to be
the ***right*** person, though. A lot of people settle for less then the right
person, though and spend a good part of their life being unhappy. They might
as well not have bothered.
Jim.
|
| 801.22 | the Child's point of view. | REFINE::TAYLOR | Sometimes you feel like a nut... | Fri Jul 28 1989 13:49 | 35 |
| Let me give everyone another view of this. The Child's view. I grew
up with this kind of thing. My parents were divorced when I was 3.
I always remember my mother having an SO. She started dating probably
when I was about 5. I remember meeting a few men and going out with
them every once in a while (My brother and sister were 9 and 10 years
older than me. They came every once in a while). She finally met this
one man and we ended up moving in with him. I liked this man very
much and I respected him as much as my father. I was told that he
wasn't my "father" (I saw my father every weekend) but I was to give
him that kind of respect and was to do what I was told. They broke up
when I was about 11 (we ended up moving out). She met this other man
about a year later and we moved in with him. I automatically gave him
the same respect, although I didn't like him very much (he didn't like
kids). They broke up about 6 years ago, and my mother hasn't found
anybody new (although I really wish she would). Having these men
around really didn't bother me. I got just as much attention from my
mother as before, but also got attention from her SO's.
Now as far as my father goes, I only remember him dating one woman. I
thought she was absolutely great! We became very good friends. I
again was given the same speech, "This woman is not your mother and
never will be, but I want you to give her the same kind of respect."
And that's exactly what I did. She never tried to be a mother to me,
just a friend. I do remember when they broke up, I was very
disappointed. I knew that my father was very happy with her. I had
lost a very good friend. I was disappointed, but soon got over it.
I think what I'm basically trying to say is don't worry about involving
your children with your relationships. They can understand a lot more
than you think. They probably know that this person will never replace
their mother or father. But they love you and want you to be happy
just as much as you want them to be happy.
Holly
|
| 801.23 | From an anonymous noter | RANGER::CANNOY | Mudlucious springtime | Wed May 30 1990 15:09 | 37 |
| The following topic is from a noter who wishes to remain anonymous. To
contact the author by mail, please send your message to RAINBO::CANNOY
specifying the conference name and note number. I will forward your
message with your name attached unless you request otherwise.
*************************************************************************
How does one deal with the issue of starting a new relationship
when one of the parties has young children?
As I get older, the number of women I meet who are raising kids
by themselves is increasing. No problem, that doesn't stop me
from being interested in mom.
As it happens, none of these relationships have worked out.
Again, no problem. These things happen. What concerns me is the
effect on the kids. Entering into the relationship, I'm aware
that my actions concern more than just the two of us. I always
make a point to be friendly to the kids, taking time to talk or,
more importantly, listen.
As the relationship progresses, I often find we plan dates with
the kids included. Somewhere along the line I often find the kids
and myself start to get attached. Birthday and/or Christmas gifts
are exchanged, we (the kids and myself) spend time together
without mom, and I feel they really come to trust and like/love
me. (BTW - We're talking pre-teen kids here, anywhere from around
2 years old to 10 or 11. Pretty vulnerable years...)
..but, eventually (historically speaking), for whatever the
reason, the relationship with mom cools down and/or ends. That
risk was understood and consented to by the woman and myself, but
the kids didn't agree to anything. I worry about hurting them.
Should I allow the kids to become close to me? Ignoring them
completely certainly doesn't seem like an option; is there some
middle ground?
|
| 801.24 | One viewpoint from a single mom... | ICESK8::KLEINBERGER | ummm....I forget | Wed May 30 1990 16:30 | 46 |
| RE: .23
I think it all depends on how the "mom" handles it. I have two girls
at home, ages 11, and 13. I am dating, and I tend to not get too
serious with most men I do date, however, there are times that I do want
to get serious, and then that is when the girls come into contention.
The girls know I "date" a lot, but that the guys I "date" are just
friends, and will only be "just" friends. That way, their expectation
of the relationship is set up front. Even with the "just-friends" men
in my life, several of them have gotten very close to the girls, and
exchanged gifts, etc. Some of them have drifted out of my life, and the
girls tend to ask about them now and again, and I usually tell them
why (new girlfriend on the guys part, or there was X,Y, or Z about the
other person that didn't work out with either them or I continuing to
be friends - or he moved away from the immediate area).
A male that I am indeed "DATING" (where "DATING" equals a romance and not
just being out with a friend), the girls know that this is a guy whom I
consider a boy-friend, and not just a friend. Sometimes the guy does
get close to the girls, sometimes not, in all depends on the guy. The
difference is here, I have explained to the girls, that when they start
dating, that I would hope they date a lot of males, so they can
determine what they like in a male and what they don't. When they find
that they are dating a guy that doesn't have what they are looking for,
that it is okay to "break" off, and continue on with life. I would hope
that I am setting a good example for them in the future.
Impressionable? I think so... my girls now know that's it's okay to
not just settle for someone to "have someone around"... that it's okay
to date, and not have it work out. I think that's a very valuable
lesson for any person to learn.
I'd say its okay to get close to the kids, but its also okay to set
the expectation that someday you might not be around, that you and
their "mom" are seeing if you too want to be together, and that since
they are a part of her, you want to be around them too.
Above all else, I congratulate you for trying, a lot of males will not
even try a relationship if they find out the female has kids (or
vice-versa too)... when in doubt, ask the "mom" how she handles the
dating with the kids, and how she handles the impact of breaking up with
a guy and her kids... and go from there...
Gale
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| 801.25 | Thoughts from one of the children... | POGO::REINBOLD | | Thu May 31 1990 04:50 | 27 |
| I asked my 14-year old daughter what she feels about this. I was a single
dating mother from the time she was 6 until last year. Here's what she has
to say:
"I think that he should still get close to the kids because it's better to
have memories of someone who was a friend and caring and helpful, rather than
someone who ignored you. I realized from the start that their relationship
might not work out, so I was prepared for the fact that they (the man) might
not always be around."
She talks about one or two men I dated, and said she misses one a little. She
never got *real* close to any of them. She adapted very well - to their being
around and to their not being around later. Whether that's typical, or just
her, I don't know. The only real regret I have regarding how this lifestyle
has affected her is that she doesn't have much faith in lasting relationships,
and has doubts that marriage makes much sense. (Sounds like a lot of us,
doesn't it?) It's too bad that she has that sceptical view before she has even
tried it for herself. I'd like to be able to show her a good, long-lasting,
solid marriage.
But her advice is to go ahead and be fairly close friends with the children.
You sound like a very kind and considerate man. There aren't many men who are
interested in dating single mothers, much less show much concern for the
children's feelings. Good luck to you.
Paula
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| 801.26 | | SX4GTO::HOLT | Robert Holt, ISVG Atelier, West Coast | Thu May 31 1990 19:53 | 10 |
|
re -.1
Yeah, we single men are pretty much insensitive animals on that
score!
But then, I could say the same thing about single women as well...
They shine on men with kids just as often..
|
| 801.27 | wandering around that issue | SKYLRK::OLSON | Partner in the Almaden Train Wreck! | Fri Jun 01 1990 00:28 | 35 |
| I have to confess to ambivalence about that aspect of it, Robert-
as a single male w/o kids, and no history of marriage and divorce,
there *are* reasons I'm hesitant about getting involved with single
mothers. And I'd expect single women in similar circumstances would
have the same reservations.
In particular, people who are still emotionally traumatized, still not
coping well, who haven't yet learned to rely on themselves emotionally,
aren't people I'll choose to get involved with. Single parents have
much bigger drains and far fewer of them seem (to me) to have adjusted
emotionally to their obvious situations, and to be enjoying the getting
on with the rest of their lives. If they aren't enjoying themselves,
how can I expect to enjoy their company?
OK, so, now you can ask me, how come I'm seeing my friend Stacey, with
her 25-month-old toddler, who's known me more than a third of his life?
And I can answer, well, she's emotionally healthy; she's taking care of
herself first; she's been progressing in therapy since before we ever
met...and we're enjoying each other's company. It can happen. Now,
I'll admit I've got some very definate bounds on this relationship;
being an adult male role model for her son is ok with me, but being a
father is not; I'm not interested in that role, and Stacey accepts
and appreciates that I'm interested in being a role model, and accepts
that going further is not going to happen. I'm taking care of my
needs; she is taking care of hers; this is all fine, and we can manage
to have a relationship within those constraints.
But in general, for a single person w/o kids to be able to match up
with a single person with kids, seems to me more fraught with the
possibilities that someone's needs won't get addressed, and the
relationship won't work. It isn't just that the kids are there;
but that their presence has too often placed too much stress on the
parent for some newcomer to be expected to deal with.
DougO
|
| 801.28 | | HEFTY::CHARBONND | Unless they do it again. | Fri Jun 01 1990 19:50 | 10 |
| re .27 Doug, I have to disagree, most single parents I've
met seem pretty well adjusted to their circumstances. As
opposed to divorced with*out* children. Maybe the distraction/
responsibility _helps_ them get on with living ?
On the other hand, single mothers never seem to have enough
*time* for the kind of relationship I'd prefer. But the same
can be said for those with demanding, long-hour jobs.
Dana
|
| 801.29 | | SKYLRK::OLSON | Partner in the Almaden Train Wreck! | Fri Jun 01 1990 21:30 | 15 |
| Dana, my experiences and yours don't seem to match up. Childless
divorcees I've known and dated have seemed much more resilient to
me than those with children. But my sample sizes aren't very large,
I haven't dated what I'd consider to be a large number of women,
and few of them were divorced or divorced with children. In trying
to figure out the difference, perhaps the time factor *is* more
important; I certainly expect that a person will devote lots of time
to their children, and I see the effects that has upon the relationship
they can develop with me...which is, perhaps, another reason why single
people w/o kids may seldom be seen making that matchup with someone who
has kids.
No definitive answers here.
DougO
|