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Conference quark::human_relations-v1

Title:What's all this fuss about 'sax and violins'?
Notice:Archived V1 - Current conference is QUARK::HUMAN_RELATIONS
Moderator:ELESYS::JASNIEWSKI
Created:Fri May 09 1986
Last Modified:Wed Jun 26 1996
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1327
Total number of notes:28298

781.0. "Shaken to the core" by QUARK::HR_MODERATOR () Wed Jun 14 1989 02:13

The following topic has been contributed by a member of our community who
wishes to remain anonymous.  If you wish to contact the author by mail, please
send your message to QUARK::HR_MODERATOR, specifying the relevant note number.
Your message will be forwarded with your name attached unless you request
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				Steve

				




I've been on the brink of entering a note on many occasions, but have
always "chickened out".  Now I find myself in a situation that has 
shaken me to the core.  

When I was very young, I made some serious mistakes that have haunted me
over the years.  I was headstrong, impulsive, and naive; truly believed
that "love conquered all".

Married at sixteen to my highschool sweetheart, he was nineteen.  By the
time I was nineteen we had two babies.  Caught him "cheating on me" with
a girl I thought was my friend, I was totally devastated.

Left him and went "home to mother", Who promptly sent me back with the
admonition that "I had made my bed and now I must sleep in it"

Couldn't live with it (pride) and decided that I would divorce him.  I
did.  shortly after met a man at work whom I was extremely attracted to.
He was "older" and seemed sophisticated and exciting.  He pursued me and
I succumbed, the chemistry was overwhelming. 

He was married...I got pregnant...couldn't bring myself to have an abortion,
opted to "go away" and have the baby.  My Mother was babysitting my 2 children,  
ages 2yrs and 8 mos, while I was at work.  I was too ashamed to tell my parents
that I was pregnant.

I went to a home for unwed mothers...Everyone thought that I had simply
abandoned my children, my family disowned me.  To make a long story short,
after the baby was born, a girl, I had nowhere to go, the father of the baby
was separated and got an apartment for us.  He became abusive and beat me
regularly, afterwhich he would sexually attack me.

I called my parents, they would have nothing to do with me, they told me I
was no good and that I would never see my children again.  I was without
hope, without a shred of self esteem, trapped emotionally and pysically in
sick, abusive relationship, I felt I didn't deserve anything better, that I
deserved to be punished.  

I signed the papers releasing the baby for adoption, there was no other way,
I believed, and still do that it was the best thing for her.  

Later I married this man who loved to abuse and degrade me, in fairness to
him, he wouldn't have been able to if I hadn't allowed him too, but I needed
to be punished.  We had two more children, it took fourteen years for me to
be sufficiently punished...fourteen years of blackeyes, broken jaw, cuts and
bruises, being threatened with death if I tried to leave, being called the
filthiest names imaginable, being terrified all the time...then finally one
day, I realized that death would be better than the life I was living...so
I summoned up my courage and left, (I should say escaped, because I was
throttled, had my head banged against the wall, was chased through the
neighborhood by him in the car, I ran through back yards and climbed chain
link fences to get to my babysitter's house without having to be on the
street where he could catch me....I still feel the adrenalin and terror to 
this day when I think of it...once inside, I was hyper-ventillating, my
heart was pounding so hard that I thought it would burst...my babysitter
called the police, he was pounding on the door and yelling and threatening
us.  The police came and made him leave.  The next day I filed assault and
battery charges against him.  He was put on probation and told that if he
so much as spoke to me on the street he'd be arrested, he left the state after
the divorce to avoid paying child support.  I have raised the two children
by myself.  They were three and seven at the time of the divorce.

This was all so many years ago, it all seems like a bad dream...but it was 
only too real...the phone call I recieved Sunday night brings it all 
vividly rushing back ...My daughter, who I gave up for adoption all those
years ago has found me...she wants to meet me...her name is Lisa...she said
she has been searching for me for three years.  I agreed to meet her for dinner
Wednesday night...I've thought about this happening so many times over the
years but never believed it really ever would...she will want to know about
her natural father, should I tell her the truth?  Should I just tell her
we had problems and divorced?  

I am happily married now to a man who has four grown children, my husband knows
everything about my past, I was totally honest with him, but his children
 do not...as far as they are concerned I have four children.  My
children know...after years of therapy I was able to tell them.  I'm afraid,
I don't know what she'll want from me...this is the first time in my life I've
had stability and a good strong relationship...I feel threatened, yet at the
same time elated and curious...one moment I'm anxious to go and meet her, the
next I feel panicky and don't want to...I don't want to remember that period
of my life...yet I do want to see her...what if she hates me.....what if she 
wants to have a relationship with me?  How will I explain her to the people
close to me at this time in my life...I'm filled with anxiety, haven't slept
since I agreed to meet her...should I go...should I cancel?  Have any of you
ever been through this?   what do you think I should do?
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
781.1From a mother of adopted kidsWMOIS::B_REINKEIf you are a dreamer, come in..Wed Jun 14 1989 02:2934
    To the author of .0
    
    First of all there are a couple of notes on the adoption
    triangle in womannotes that might give you some insight
    on how your daughter might be feeling about meeting you.
    If you'd like I'll look up the numbers of the notes for
    you.
    
    Second, it could be one of my children in a few years going
    looking for their birth mother. (We have adopted 4 of our
    5 children.) I've raised my children to regard their birth
    mothers as a woman who loved them but had to make a hard choice
    when they could not raise their child for what ever reason.
    So I hope that you daughter is coming to you from the same
    understanding.
    
    Children who were placed for adoption do often need at some
    time in their lives (at least some of them do) to understand
    more about their past and their biological roots.
    
    My advice would be that you should meet with your daughter and 
    tell her as little or as much as you can when you do. 
    
    And then take the relationship from there where ever it seems
    comfortable to you to take it.
    
    I'd be glad to correspond with you by mail if you would like.
    

    and warm congratulations on having over come so much in your
    life and having learned to deal with it.
    
    Bonnie
    
781.2MAMTS1::TTAYLORWed Jun 14 1989 13:3538
    Wow.  My heart goes out to you.  You have overcome many trials and
    tribulations in your life, and now just when it seems things are
    settled and you are "thriving" in your role as wife and mother (really
    thriving -- for the first time!), life throws you a curve-ball.
    
    I'm not married and have never had children, but I just had to write
    and tell you that I applaud your strength and perseverence!
    
    It must seem quite scary, putting the past behind you and now, here
    it is, again.  But you mustn't blame your daughter for your past.
    Maybe you will find true peace of mind once you have met her.  If
    your husband knows of your past, then he must be a pretty compassionate
    and loving individual, so he'll probably understand why you need
    to see her.
    
    It's better knowing she's alive, healthy, and thriving, maybe to
    see her face just once? -- than having never seen her at all and
    always wondering "what does she do?  what does she look like?  is
    she happy?  Now you have the opportunity to find out, to tell her
    the circumstances of her birth (although you might want to "soft
    pedal" it a bit, she need never know your husband was physically
    abusive.  She'll probably rest a lot easier at night, once she meets
    you and can take comfort in knowing that you gave her up for HER
    BENEFIT, not really yours.  Can you imagine the devastation she
    would feel after searching for you and being rebuffed?  It may haunt
    her for the rest of her life ...
    
    You don't have an easy choice to make.  But it seems that lately
    you have stabilized and made some good, sound decisions.  I think
    you know already in your heart exactly what you want to do, and
    what is best for both of you.  You just need reassurance that it's
    going to be all right.  And it will be.
    
    Good luck!
    
    Tammi
    
   
781.3everyone makes mistakesYODA::BARANSKILooking for the green flashWed Jun 14 1989 15:0310
I don't imagine an adopted child who hated their birth mother would want
to find thier birth mother.

Tell her the truth.  It is best for her, *and* for you.  Ask yourself what it is
exactly that you are afraid of.  I can understand how you might want to forget
about that time of your life, but prehaps if recalling it frightens and pains
you, it might be good for you to revisit it so that you can finally put it to
rest, rather then keeping it all bottled up. 

Jim.
781.5An Adoptee Who Searched For Her BirthmotherSONATA::ERVINRoots & Wings...Wed Jun 14 1989 16:2198
My name is Laura and I am an adoptee who searched for her birthmother.
I can, from the adoptee's side of the coin, understand some of the feelings 
you are going through at this point in time.


>>I signed the papers releasing the baby for adoption, there was no other way,
>>I believed, and still do that it was the best thing for her.  

You had no options and no support from your family, I am sure that your 
daughter who has found you will be able to understand this.


>>My daughter, who I gave up for adoption all those
>>years ago has found me...she wants to meet me...her name is Lisa...she said
>>she has been searching for me for three years.  

If she persisted in her search for three years then she has had plenty of 
time to think about this...she *really* wants to meet you.

>>I agreed to meet her for dinner
>>Wednesday night...

Bring pictures of her half-sibs, of yourself at different ages.  Most 
adoptees go through life never looking like anyone else, pictures are 
really important.

>>I've thought about this happening so many times over the
>>years but never believed it really ever would...she will want to know about
>>her natural father, should I tell her the truth?  Should I just tell her
>>we had problems and divorced?  

She may or may not be ready to ask about her birthfather.  She may ask 
questions.  She may or may not want to meet him.  I think that you should 
tell her the truth.  The truth may be hard and painful for her to hear, but 
it is only truth that has the power to heal.

>>I am happily married now to a man who has four grown children, my husband knows
>>everything about my past, I was totally honest with him, but his children
>>do not...as far as they are concerned I have four children.  
>>My
>>children know...after years of therapy I was able to tell them.  

If your husband has been such an understanding and loving person, and your 
children have grown up in this environment, then I'm sure they will be able 
to handle the information.

>>I'm afraid,
>>I don't know what she'll want from me...

If your birthdaughter has been helped by a search and support group, then 
she will probably not come with alot of expectations.  She obviously wants 
to meet you.  She will probably want to touch you, to hug you, to be hugged 
and held by you.  She will probably want to tell you that she understands 
and accepts the choices you had to make so many years ago.  These were all 
the expectations I had when I thought about meeting my birthmother, only I 
never got to do any of it.  She had died so many years before I ever even 
searched.  She was 38 years old when she died.  I never got to see my 
birthmother, to know how it would feel to be held and loved by her, to tell 
her that I always thought of her and loved her from as far back as I can 
remember.

Please stay open to this daughter of yours.  Just be there.  That's all she 
wants.

>>I don't want to remember that period
>>of my life...yet I do want to see her...what if she hates me.....what if she 
>>wants to have a relationship with me?  

Meeting her may help to heal some of the wounds from you past.  If she 
hated you then she wouldn't have searched for you.  And when you meet her, 
what if you want to have a relationship with her?  Although, you don't have 
to feel obligated to have a relationship.  It will help her immensely to 
have had an opportunity to meet you, have some of her questions answered.  
You are both adults, you both get to make adult choices.

>>How will I explain her to the people
>>close to me at this time in my life...I'm filled with anxiety, haven't slept
since I agreed to meet her...should I go...should I cancel?  

I would suggest that you contact Concerned United Birthparents.  There is a 
wonderful woman who is also a birthmother and is the President of CUB 
national.  You can reach her at 515-263-9558 (Iowa), her name is Janet 
Fenton, or at this number... 515-262-2334.  If you decide to call Janet, 
tell her you got the phone number from me.  Janet has been wonderful in 
helping me deal with the very permanent loss of my birthmother.

>>Have any of you
>>ever been through this?   what do you think I should do?

Don't cancel your meeting with your daughter.  And, if you want, please 
feel free to send me mail at SONATA::ERVIN or call me at DTN: 276-8470.
You don't have to go through this alone.  There is support.  I feel excited 
for you and hopeful that all will be fine.  

Warm regards,

Laura

781.6support for you.SUPER::HENDRICKSThe only way out is throughWed Jun 14 1989 18:0037
    My heart goes out to you.  I don't usually read this file, but Laura
    (.5) forwarded her note to me, and I wanted to respond to you, too.
    
    I'm not a member of the adoption triad, but one of the ways I
    made peace with my family, myself, and my history was to search
    for my own family roots by tracing my family back historically in
    hopes of understanding why we are who we are today.  I appreciate
    the need for roots and connections.                              
    
    My friends who are adoptees and birthmothers have lent me a number of
    excellent books that have helped me understand the feelings that each
    member of the triad often has about adoption, the way birthmothers are
    often left with no good choices for themselves and their infant, and
    the way the social climate of each decade of this century has often
    dictated the roles that each member of the triad must play. I would
    encourage you to read other adoptees' and birthmothers' stories if you
    have not done so. 
    
    All I could think as I was reading your story was how much pain
    you must have felt with your husband, for the baby, and for yourself.
    Many people would have opted to die rather than keep going, and
    you did not.  You found a way to raise the other children, and you
    did the best you could for Lisa with the resources you had.  
                                                
    She must want to know you very much to search for 3 years.  As someone
    with skills in genealogy, I have met a lot of adoptees along the way.
    Many of them are singleminded about their searches, and many can't get
    on with their lives until they get some information about their
    families of origin. Many of the adoptees I have met have been overjoyed
    just to be allowed to meet their birthmother in person. 
    
    I hope you get the support you both need to make this a very positive
    experience for both of you.
    
    Best to both of you,
    
    Holly
781.7A similar experienceMEMV01::CROCITTOIt's Jane Bullock Crocitto nowWed Jun 14 1989 18:3146
    Hi--
    
    I just had to respond to this note.  I applaud your courage and
    your will to live!  I'm so sorry that you had to go through that
    experience, but you made it.  Our experiences help make us what
    we are, and you sound as though you've come back into the light
    and are not only surviving but succeeding.  Good for you!
    
    Although I was not adopted, my parents were divorced when I was
    about 3.  Evidently it was a very bad experience for my mom, because
    she never would talk about it, or my first father.  About a year
    and a half later, she met and married my stepfather, who was and
    is wonderful to me.  But he also maintained the silence about my
    first father.
    
    As a child growing up, I had so many questions about him--did I
    look like him, what was he like, was his hair dark like mine, etc.,
    etc.  But I was never given answers, and always resented that.
    What I was feeling was a very natural curiosity about him,
    and wanted to know things about him that every child has a right
    to know about their father.  
    
    Gradually I got to feeling that maybe he was someone to be ashamed
    of;  maybe THAT'S why no one would tell me anything about him. 
    Just one day he was there;  the next he was gone, and I had no idea
    where he went or why.  It hurt very much to be told NOTHING about
    someone I felt I SHOULD know about.
                         
    The reason I'm telling you this is to help you to understand what
    it is that your daughter MIGHT be feeling.  If she has been searching
    for three years, she must care very much.  Remember, she's interested
    for HER reasons, and she will not be seeing the situation as you
    do.  
    
    Just go, meet her, and allow things to happen.  See where your
    conversation takes you.  If you feel threatened, there's nothing
    at all wrong in saying, "I'm just not ready to get close right now.
    We need time to get to know each other."
    
    I wish you and your daughter all the best.  Don't be afraid.  Please
    keep us posted;  we care.
    
    Love,
    
    Jane                                   
    
781.8Wow! Can I Relate!SLOVAX::HASLAMCreativity UnlimitedWed Jun 14 1989 20:1835
    With a few exceptions, your story sounds like a carbon copy of my
    past history.  I, too, adopted out two children at two different
    points in our lives.  My ten year old son was adopted to a family
    in Denver, and when he came of age, he looked me up and wanted to
    talk, to ask me why, and I found it a wonderful opportunity to explain
    why I had made the choices I have and to try to clear away some
    of his confusion about what really happened.  
    
    My other child, a daughter who is now almost 16, has lost touch
    with the family, but I believe she's bound to return
    someday--hopefully, in better circumstances than she left.  Since
    I have never regretted the decisions I made, I have no reason to
    fear telling either child the truth.  I made the best choice at
    the time and I stand by those decisions.
    
    As for the battering relationship, I've always been open and honest
    with my children about who their father is and why we finally divorced.
     The oldest children have the marks and scars left behind anyway,
    and by discussing it whenever the need arises, we've "let go" of
    the haunting "how could this have ever happened to us" quality that
    can hamper forward motion.  One advantage to "hanging out the skeletons
    in your closet" is that they are only a curiosity for a little while.
    Before long, they are no longer worth paying attention too, and
    you can face the ghosts of the past and use them to measure how
    very far you've come and how much stronger you are than before.
    
    I feel very "in touch" with your past experiences, and I wish you
    well in your future.  If you've gone through all that and survived,
    this, dear friend, should be a piece of cake!
    
    Please write, if you want to talk.
    
    Warmest Support,
    
    Barb
781.9ACESMK::CHELSEAMostly harmless.Wed Jun 14 1989 23:4610
    Re: .0
    
    I think someone else has brought this up, but I'd like to reinforce it: 
    Don't try to (or get pushed into) jumping headfirst into a close
    relationship.  Regardless of the birth ties, you are still two
    strangers who are meeting for the first time.  She might have a fair
    amount of information about you, but she doesn't *know* you.  So take
    it at a reasonable pace, just like any other new friendship or
    relationship.  You need time to learn about each other and to decide
    how you want to relate to each other.
781.10Pain comes in many shapesWMOIS::RICCIThu Jun 15 1989 12:5538
    
    First and foremost, I applaud your courage. My heart goes out to
    you. Too many people suffer the abuse of anothers emotional
    instability. I wanted to respond to this, in part, due to the many
    emotions it has made me feel. My personal experience is similar
    to your daughter. I was born out of wedlock. My own personal pain
    revolves around child abuse and neglect. I often think of my biological
    father but do so in very ambiguous terms. I never knew him or his
    name or his own heritage etc. Many nights, I would lay in bed and
    wonder why he never claimed me as his own. I would often wonder
    about meeting him someday. When I was in theropy I realized that
    my wanting to meet him could, in the long run, hurt me a great deal.
    Why? Well, he may not want to see me or have any  paternal feelings.
    In short, it pains me still to not be able to know who I am.  I
    am relating these feelings because it is important that , for whatever
    reasons you had, you give your daughter the truth about who she
    is. No matter what course your individual lives may take....it is
    most important to give her the sense of being and attachment. No
    matter what you decide to do in terms of any future relationship
    with her, be truthful to her. I can only speak from my own pain
    but I honestly feel that my not knowing hurts more than anything
    else. When my own daughter asks me questions about her background,
    I know in my heart that it is fabricated. The fact that my dad adopted
    me when I was four but treated me as the bastard child that I was
    made things worse. I also want to bring out the point about the
    resentment my biological mother had for me because "I ruined her
    life. I would have been much healthier, had they all given me to
    someone who really wanted me. Tell her why your life was the way
    it was, she will love you for the honestly and will not have to
    conjure her own stories to deal with it.
    
    I didn't mean to run on but it touches the very sole of my existence.
    Please feel free to communicate directly with me in regards to this
    matter, if you are so inclined.
    
    
    Rick-who-would-have-given-anything-for-some-honest-answers 
    
781.11bravo...SHRFAC::MCROTEAULike a true, natures child...Fri Jun 16 1989 15:2924
    Wow....
    
    You are an unbeleivable person! You deserve a hand!
    
    Im also an adoptee, and I just found my family about 3 weeks ago
    now. I didnt meet my mother yet but did find my siblings, aunts
    uncles, and all the cousins one person could possible immagine.
    You are so lucky that your kiddo found you! Dont be afraid, she
    is just as uptight as you are! NO KIDDING! maybe worse! 
    Every one has their pass creep up on them at some point in their
    life...I personally cant wait for that day to get it over with!
    *8^) You kinda have to take it one day at a time, if you go and
    think about all that "could" happen and "might" and "what if's"
    than it WILL over power you...just catch your breath, one our at
    a time if thats what you need to do, the whole thing is an incredible
    hunk of stuff to deal with. Me I found myself smoking 2 packs of
    butts a day during my ordeal, and am starting to mellow out now.
    
    Just have faith in yourself...take it slow, very slow...
    
    best of luck...and I mean that!
    
    Mar.
    (my first note in here)
781.12how did it go?NUTMEG::HARGREAVESFri Jun 16 1989 15:537
    Hi.  I happened to read this note after wednesday.  Is it possible
    for you to let us know how things went?   We're all hoping for the
    best for both you and your daughter, and the rest of the family.
    Let us know,
    
    God Bless,
    PH
781.13Response from author of base noteQUARK::HR_MODERATORFri Jun 16 1989 16:1533
Before saying anything else, I want to thank all you who have taken the
time to respond with such warmth and caring.  My only regret is not 
having had the courage to enter a note long before I did.

I met Lisa Wednesday after work...never in my life has a day flown by as
quickly as Wednesday did...my heart was skipping beats all day.  I wondered
if I would instantly know her and vice-versa.

I walked into the restaurant, she was sitting at the bar facing the door,
she was staring so intently as I entered that I knew it had to be her...
I walked over and we both spoke each others names...then we hugged and
went to a booth for privacy.  We talked until 11:30, she is a lovely girl.

I answered her questions honestly, I didn't go into detail about her fathers
abuse, but I did tell her that he was abusive and had many emotional problems.

She told me about her life and her family, we exchanged pictures.  She has
one brother who is also adopted.  She was so happy to learn that she has a
brother and sister and will be meeting them at the end of the month.  I told
her about my other two children (her half siblings).

She asked me if we could be part of each others lives...she assured me that
she wasn't expecting an instant "deep" relationship, I told her that we
should take it at a comfortable pace for both of us.

She spoke lovingly of her parents and said that they had been 100% supportive
of her wanting to find me.

I so glad that she found it neccessary to find me, I feel that a heavy weight
has been lifted from my heart and mind.  This is the first step in our
developing a relationship of whatever depth, one that is comfortable for us
both.  Again my friends...thankyou for your caring and support...

781.14Amen! *8^)SHRFAC::MCROTEAULike a true, natures child...Fri Jun 16 1989 16:331
    
781.15MAMTS1::TTAYLORFri Jun 16 1989 16:384
    Another happy ending .... Bravo!
    
    Tammi
    
781.16This is not an ending.SKYLRK::OLSONPartner in the Almaden Train WreckFri Jun 16 1989 17:546
    I would say, rather, another hopeful beginning!
    
    I hope your relationship continues to grow and to reward you both.
    Thanks for sharing your story.
    
    DougO
781.17YAY!BSS::BLAZEKmidnight children to the midnight beatFri Jun 16 1989 19:405
   	The story of your Wednesday meeting made me cry!  I'm so happy
    	for both you and your daughter.  All the best!
    
    							Carla
    
781.18IAMOK::KOSKIWhy don't we do it in the water?Fri Jun 16 1989 19:5019
    - so glad to see that things appear to be working out for the best.
        
    I was very interested about how .0 was going to approach the topic
    of her daughter's father. I think a simple explanation at first
    meeting was best. But how much is going to come out as the relationship
    grows? Probably much more. 
    
    This leads me to a similar question that has come to my mind as I have 
    decided to embark on a search for my birth parents. The thought
    of meeting one or both of them is very intriguing. But just what
    do I say about coming from an abusive household? There would be
    little chance of ignoring the issue altogether. But I don't want
    to burden the woman with guilt for having given me up. The base
    noter felt good that her daughter had been raised in a warm, loving
    supportive home. What happens when that isn't the case. This is
    not information that she would want to here and/or deal with. What
    would you do?  

    Gail
781.19Nice to hear a happy storyHICKRY::HOPKINSPeace, Love, & UnderstandingMon Jun 19 1989 17:254
    How wonderful for you!  Much happiness in the future to you and
    your family.
    
    
781.20brought tears here too...HANNAH::OSMANsee HANNAH::IGLOO$:[OSMAN]ERIC.VT240Mon Jun 19 1989 20:369
	yes, reading about your meeting with your daughter brought tears
	to my eyes too.

	Even right here in my office sitting in front of the tube...

	thank you for sharing

/Eric