Conference quark::human_relations-v1

This happened to me once when I applied for a job in another locale.  My SO at
the time became very withdrawn, which I felt pretty hurt about.  The
relationship had several problems, but there was a lot of love between us. In
the end, I didn't get the job, but the situation was the straw which broke the
relationship's back. 

Jim.

    Six and a half years ago Rick decided to relocate from north Texas
    to New England.  He quit his job and came home and asked me to drive
    him to the airport.
    
    At that time we had been married just past 8 years.  He made it
    clear that he certainly hoped that I would choose to relocate with
    him, but that it was not an expectation.
    
    Found a job at Wang two weeks later.  I still had a job in Texas,
    so I wasn't moving any too soon.
    
    For 3.5 months we visited back and forth about twice a month.  He
    loved living in New England, loved working at Wang ... you name
    it, it was certainly the right move for him to make.  I spent this
    time coming to an understanding of what _I_ wanted. 
    
    When the house was completed, I had to make a decision before closing.
    After all, if I was going to make the move, I needed my name on
    the mortgage as well.
    
    I came to understand that I had quite an investment in Rick and
    our relationship, but that I could be very happy without it.
    
    I balanced my initial anger at the total insensitivity it took for
    him to just up and disrupt my life without warning with the fact
    that I'd never even wanted to be in Texas in the first place, but
    in marrying a Texan I felt I had no complaints coming.
    
    I balanced the dead-end job I was in against opportunities I saw
    in this area.
    
    I kept in mind that while Rick is frequently a bit absent-minded,
    he is not hurtful and that his actions were atypical.
    
    When the house was completed I moved. I let him know in no uncertain
    terms that one of these out-of-the-blue occurences severely taxed
    the bounds of my tolerance and was probably all he had coming...
    
    It was a tricky time, but I have no regrets.
    
    I suppose you have to look at what's good for you.  Applying for
    a job elsewhere is almost certainly not a personal rejection of
    _you_.
    
       Ann
    
    

    
    	>What makes this the most difficult is that he is the type of
    	>person you spend years looking for and
    
    	Since when do we "look for" this "magical other" which is going
    to "save us" or whatever somehow? This attitude alone is what's
    causing you to burn over the possibility that "he'll be gone soon".
    
    	I've heard it said that it's much better to *be* the right one
    for yourself than to try and *look for* the right one in terms of
    another person. You see, "others" have this healthy habit of choosing
    what's right for them, and if that happens to be something different
    that what's right for you, well, all's fair in love and war, right?
    
    	Believe me, if you read my notes and replies or know me at all,
    I too feel the pain of my co-dependancy on another. Sometimes, this
    pain is so great that I'm willing to literally "pay" someone just
    to stick around. More often than not, this "payment" is rendered
    in the currency of the soul, if you know what I mean. It's also
    rendered in cold cash, as I do recall...
    
    	You're still OK for thinking this way, I mean it's the culmination
    of all of societies teachings and structure. You're *supposed* to
    get all_of_you via some relationship with another, just like the
    "lasts forever" note said, right?
    
    	Hey, it's just like Ronnie say: "Be my Little Baby"
    	
    	Joe Jas 
               

    Thanks for the input Joe, but what I meant was not written well.  
    
    I am very happy with myself, my SO enhances my life.  He is healthy,
    both mentally and physically.  He has never put restrictions on
    me....ie...friends I can and can not see because they happen to be male.  
    He encourages and supports me in what ever I chose to do.  He is the
    kind of person I want to share my life and experiences with.
    
    I have been with too many men who were uncomfortable with me seeing
    male friends and tried to mold me into the woman they wanted me to be.
    
    Linda

    You know...there aren't all that many *healthy* people in the world.
    (I don't consider myself particularly healthy, mentally) People
    with few, manageable, or healed emotional scars are good to have
    continuing relationships with.  Is there some reason you can't leave
    the Springs?  Have you read the want adds in a Seattle paper?  If
    the relationship is as good as you make it sound, or as important
    to you as you make it sound, I would tend to think you should consider
    relocation.
    

    From a past experience - I had been with my SO for about 2 years
    when he decided to move to Portland, Or. from Phoenix. He didn't
    like the desert and I didn't like the rain and greenery. We were
    very much in love, the perfect couple. So, he moved and I stayed.
    We saw each other about once a month, talked on the phone constantly
    and wrote letters. I used the time to decide how important he was
    to me and what our relationship meant as opposed to why I wanted
    to stay in Phoenix. I finally decided that I would be happy living
    anywhere and long as it was with him. I knew I could get a job that
    was just as good as the one I had in Phoenix so that wasn't an issue.
    So, after about 9 months of deciding, I told him I was ready to
    move up there. He was a little hesitant about it and about 2 weeks
    later I received a "Dear Jane" letter in the mail. There hadn't
    been any clue at all that he had met someone else in Portland. He
    felt he was in love with this other person at the time and didn't
    love me any more. So we broke up, not a pretty sight to see. About
    4 months later he came crying back to me that he had made a mistake
    but by then it was too late as far as I was concerned.
    
    The moral:
       Don't wait too long if you think you'd be willing to move too!
    
    Debbie
    

    
    	Hi Linda,
    
    	>He encourages and supports me in what ever I chose to do.
    
    	Well, that certainly sounds very "healthy" to me, in terms of
    attitude. Can you do the same for him, w/o letting your heart trip
    you up? I find myself stumbling over mine all the time - it's big
    enough to "get in the way" of my being fully rational, if you will.
    
    	I wish I had an elegant, one line answer to this for you, but
    it's a difficult, non trivial thing. Perhaps listen to what .5 is
    saying and try to see what's available in that locale for you. I
    liked your use of the word "enhancement", BTW :')
    
    	Joe Jas                                  

Boy Moves...

Girl Stays...

Girl Changes her mind...

Boy says 'Too Late...'

Seems to be a common train of events...

Jim.

    Hi.  It sounds like you are having a communication problem in that
    he hasn't told you whether he'd like you to think about moving with
    him, but you haven't asked?  I think first and foremost, you should
    take a deep breath and ask him where he thinks the relationship
    might go, once you determine that, then ask him if he'd like for
    you to join him.
    
    The second thing is, maybe he won't want you to go, but there just
    might be a happy ending.  I was dating my High School sweetheart
    for years.  He was very non-commital about our future.  He joined
    the Air Force and moved to California, leaving me (still in High
    School, he was 5 years older) back in New England.  After 6 months
    (and I'm sure he dated, too) or writing and calling, I went to visit
    and got the surprise of my life.  He asked me to marry him.  We
    ended up not marrying (I got the cold feet -- too young!), but hope
    does spring eternal that the distance will make his heart fonder
    for you!
    
    I wish you good luck.  It sounds like you are willing to move for
    this man, which is a good sign.  If you find something special,
    geography shouldn't even be a consideration, because in life there
    are too few *real* people, and when you find the right one -- GO
    FOR IT!
    
    I say, talk to him and tell him how you feel.  You have NOTHING
    to lose, since he's probably moving anyway.  It seems negative,
    but you'll lose him to distance if he moves, and if you lose him
    from "pushing" the issue, then he just didn't care enough about
    the relationship to want to work things out.
    
    Tammi
    

    Re .9
    
    > -< Absence Makes the Heart Grow Fonder! >-
    
    Usually of someone else.

    
    
    
                      Out of sight, out of mind....
                      
    
    Katie
    

    I've heard it expressed that absence is to love as wind is to
    a fire - it fans the greater ones and extinguishes the lesser
    ones.  I'm inclined to agree.
    
    Steve

    Sure, absence from someone (for a finite period of time) may make 
    a heart grow fonder, but I still think the words to an old Steven 
    Stills' song portray a realistic philosophy:
    
      And If You Can't Be With The One You Love
      Love The One You're With,
      Love The One You're With.
    
      Alan

    Re: .14
    
    Good for you!  I like that attitude!
    
    I agree, because someone very special to my heart is over in England.
    We have the phone, letters, and planes.  If you want something to
    work, it really will if two people are committed.
    
    Sorry if this seems sappy, but .....
    
    T
    

    Re. .15:
    
    And, to quote another musical tribute to parted lovers:
            
    	"When I'm not near the one I love,
    	 I love the one I'm near."
    
    			- Finian's Rainbow
    
    Karen

    Thank you for all the good input.
    
    Fortunately, we don't have to deal with this now.  Thanks to the
    Digital salary freeze, he will not be going.  
    
    I am sad for him, I know he is disappointed, and I want him to be
    happy.  But at the same time I am screaming with excitement inside.
    
    Thank you, everyone!
    
    Linda

RE: .17


>    Re. .15:
>    
>    And, to quote another musical tribute to parted lovers:
>            
>    	"When I'm not near the one I love,
>    	 I love the one I'm near."
>    
>    			- Finian's Rainbow
    
Actually the verse I had in mind was:

	"When I'm not facing the face that I fancy
	 I fancy the face I face."

-- Ron

    
    Re:  .15, .17, .19
    
    
    Do you really believe in the idea expressed in these lyrics?  I'm
    curious because I've always received a "negative" feeling from the
    songs.  Is it realistic to love someone because it is convenient?
    If so, is it really love?  Is it really fair?
    
    I don't mean to open a can of worms here.  It just doesn't seem
    to say much for commitment.  
    
    Kris
    

RE: .20

>    Re:  .15, .17, .19
>    
>    Do you really believe in the idea expressed in these lyrics?

As for me, no!!! The lyrics from 'Finian's Rainbow' are from the 
leprechaun song. They are meant in jest. On the other hand:


>    Is it realistic to love someone because it is convenient?

Not for everyone, but, yes, it's been known to happen. I can think
back and remember a couple of examples I have witnessed. It happened
to people who desperately wanted to fall in love (or desperately 
wanted/needed sex), so they did it with whoever was available,
rather than do without. 


>    If so, is it really love? 

It is, for the people involved. At least, for a time.


>    Is it really fair?

To whom? Who are we to judge other people's emotions and needs?
    

-- Ron    

    These songs lyrics can mean something else:
    
    If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're
    with....YOURSELF!!!
    
    Parting and the end of a good relationship is never a happy scene, but 
    life goes on and I will continue to enjoy myself and become a better 
    person, and that will mean spending time with myself.  It sure helps 
    if you like the person you are with, you are all you've got.
    
    And how can you expect anyone to love you if you don't like/love
    yourself.
    
    Linda

    
    You know...when I am too close to a subject [read some of my less
    erudite replies surrounding alcoholism....] I get rather defensive
    about anyone making light-hearted remarks about it....I see no humor
    in the situation at all...so I over-react to their *lack* of
    understanding of the serious nature of the topic...but it is really
    *I* who lacks understanding...*I* fail to see the humor that is
    inherent in those situations...or the options for other opinions...
    
    Perhaps it is possible that there is a bit of over-reaction here?
    
    Why must we always be so serious about *love*....?
    
    RE: the first song....it was written [after all] during the "free love"
    era...and portrayed the feelings of that time....it was perfectly
    acceptable to love a lot of people, while loving one particularly...
    in fact was *expected* many times...
    
    RE: the second lyric, as Ron pointed out [we have to stop meeting
    like this....] is a joke....a lark....just because it has the
    word *love* in it, does not mean it is taking serious [sic] love
    to task...it is poking fun....
    
    *Levity* is the operant word I think here....I don't think anyone
    was trying to belittle love's commitment, for those who see love
    that way....but there are other points of view...including humorous
    ones....and non-monogomous ones....
    
    Melinda

'Do you believe in 'love the one you are with'?'

Yes.  But how a person implements the philosophy depends on how, *ahem*,
"mature" <nose in air> ;->, one is. :-)  It doesn't necessarily mean jump into
bed with whoever you are with.  Sure, there is some sadness and loss associated
with the lyric because you are not with the one you love, but the point is that
there are a lot of other people who can benifit from your love, and that you can
benifit by loving, instead of spending the rest of your life pining for your
lost love.

Anyway, that's how I feel about it...

Jim. 

    I'm going to ramble a bit here (fair warning):
    
    Yes, I believe in "love the one you're with," but perhaps not in
    the same sense .20 means.  I fall in love easily -- and often. 
    Perhaps because I've also found myself alone and in new surroundings
    several times in my life, reaching out to others for friendship
    and love has become second nature.  That doesn't mean each is a
    "SO" or a full-blown relationship.  But it's "love" by my definition
    anyway.
    
    Furthermore, I've often pondered the lot that Fate bestows on human
    beings.  We're in this world for a limited time, and by virtue of
    our physical beings can only be in one place at one time.  What
    if, I ask myself, I'm never in the same place at the same time with
    "THAT PERFECT OTHER"?  Does that mean I must go through life love-less
    and companion-less?
    
    I certainly hope not.  So, I choose to "love the one I'm with,"
    and along the way to finding perfection, I've met -- and loved --
    some wonderful people who have made my search for perfection seem
    a bit immature.  And my life is certainly richer; I hope
    they can say the same.
    
    Karen
                     

    	During an all-employee meeting today, a slide was shown with
    	the following saying:
    
    	"A good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow."
    
    	Substitute "man" for "plan", and it's an even better motto!
    	Love is different for all of us.  If I feel I have fallen in
    	love with someone two weeks after I meet him, then I have.
    	What I consider love, someone else may consider infatuation.  
    	What I consider misery, others consider love.
    
    							Carla
    

    I've just started wondering why one of a mated pair of humans would
    choose to relocate.  Under what circumstances would it happen? 
    How much notice does the SO get?  Does one know about it in advance
    or is it sprung on the unsuspecting?

    
>    Is it really fair?
    
To whom? Who are we to judge other people's emotions and needs?
    
    
    
    
    Ron,
    
    Asking if it is fair to love someone because it is convenient is
    rather ludicrous since there is little fairness in life.  I guess
    I was looking at it from the perspective of the other person.  A
    very close friend of mine was dating someone and "fell" deeply in
    love with him.  Their whole relationship revolved around convenience
    for him and after awhile, she realized that she wasn't needed or
    loved the way she wanted to be.  I'm not blaming anyone here...perhaps
    what I'm saying is that in some situations people need to be more
    in tune with the other and to realize what they each need/want from the
    relationship.                             
                                              
                                              
    Also, I was asking this question in relation to the topic presented
    by the author.  The SO moves away and she's deeply in love with him.
    He's not around so she should just forget about him and move on?
    Perhaps I received the wrong impression from the author - it seemed
    that there was some commitment between them.  I'm not saying that
    she should pine away.  She needs to think about what she wants to
    do, make a decision and go from there (that is if this situation
    was still valid).  If she were to decide to stay, then recovering
    from the separation would be up to her, would it not?                    
                                                                  
    Contrary to what most people think, I am NOT judging anyone.  I
    just think that sometimes we forget that our actions affect others.
    And no, I'm not saying that loving someone (whatever the definition
    may entail) is going to automatically hurt someone.  What I'm saying
    is that sometimes people do things without stopping to think if
    it will hurt the other person.                                         
                                                  
    Perhaps this hit a nerve because last year I dated someone for many
    months because it was convenient - nothing else to do.  I even had
    myself believing I loved him.  Well, I was only fooling myself and
    I ended up hurting one very nice man.  Did I learn my lesson?  I'm
    not sure but I certainly hope so.             
                                                  
    I apologize for not catching your humor....sometimes I do (nice people 
    and STD's) and sometimes I don't (this note).              
                                                  
    OK!  So I need to chill out!  I suppose I take people's feelings
    and emotions too seriously.....  Of course, it is most likely due
    to the fact that I'm totally void of a sense of humor.
    
    Kris
    
    
    Kris    
                                                               
    

RE: .28

I have two comments. First, with regards to noting humour: I realize
that it's very difficult to discern the tone of a reply, unless one
knows the writer. That's why all these smiley faces are so
prevalent. I'm afraid I tend to neglect my noting etiquette and
forget to put them in (as I write, my meaning is so clear to me, I
forget others cannot --and do not-- share my 'inner sight'). 

In this case, Kris, you got my meanings just right. I **was** joking
when I made that crack about nice people and STDs. I was serious
when I reacted to the question of fairness. As you see, you are not
devoid of a sense of humour, after all.

Second: the question "Is it really fair?" implied passing judgment.
I was not flaming, but I do react negatively when people pass
judgment on other people's feelings and emotions. I think no one
has the right to. Turns out I misunderstood you and that "Contrary
to what most people think, [you are] NOT judging anyone.". Thanks
for clearing this up. 

Peace. 

-- Ron