Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    just some ridiculous advice from a guy who spends time in
    bands and has s.o.'s at the same time....
    
    support his music and his band and the relationship will 
    last longer and be happier...
    
    complain about "the time he spends with the band" and you'll
    either lose the relationship or have a very unhappy mate....
    i can just see him now...turning 40...hostile because he
    had to give up his dream for fame and success in a band...
    because of you!....
    
    if you can't handle it....get out and find a guy who isn't
    in a band!...let him find a woman who CAN handle it!....
    cus he wants the band and his s.o....
    
    face it...bands rehearse 2-3 nights a week...sometimes on weekends...
    and they generally only play on weekend nights....
    
    but...you CAN handle it....if you understand the nature of bands...
    and really love the guy...and if you DO handle it he'll be that
    much more appreciative and loving of/for you....probably...
    
    

    My ex had a band and practiced ALL the time.  The way I resolved
    the problem was to practice with him.  I played keyboards, guitar,
    and did vocals and harmony.  It may not be practical, but we *were*
    spending time together.
    
    Barb

    Re .0, having an SO who plays in a band is a good way to meet other
    interesting men - (just a strange little observation of my own).
    
    Also, it's important that your SO *is* the lead singer because this
    way you don't have to put up with some obnoxious "girl" lead singer
    (which some rock bands have). (Always look on the bright side.)
    
    Lorna
    
    

             
    .4  The band has six members, and the other lead singer is female.
        But she's engaged to the keyboard player..  Ha Ha...
    
        Other interesting MEN???  When he's playing I meet interesting
        men in other clubs... If someone approaches me, during break
    	he always comes over to give me a kiss...  You think anyone
    	will ask me to dance after that!!  He's funny at times...
    
    	It's funny, when you go to watch the bands.. Some of the women
    	are pretty rude...  Once while I was sitting at the table, a
    	girl came over and but her arms around his neck...  Talk about
    	rising bloodpressure.  Needless to say, I didn't control myself.
        Some have made passes at him, while we were walking out arm
    	in arm...  I have to learn self control...huh?
                   
    	Maybe I'll write a book...  Life and times of a GROUPIE..  or
    	did someone already write that..
    
    	Maria

         Hmmm...
         
         There is a thing about people who love music enough
         to work at it...it becomes more than something they
         do...it becomes something they cannot *not* do.
         
         What was it that caused you to love this person in
         the first place? Wasn't his music a good part of
         it? That magic that he has? So, now you don't want
         it any more because it infringes on your expectations
         of time spent with you?
         
         If you choose to love/live with/care about...[?]
         such a person, you should make a decision right off
         the starting line that you *accept* the above fact
         about them and love them *for* it instead of *in
         spite* of it.
         
         If you cannot do that, regardless of the emotional
         ties you feel, you are gonna hurt big time somewhere
         down the yellow brick road. One cannot successfully
         take a person and say "OK, now that you are involved
         with me, you need to change "these" things...." it
         doesn't work.
         
         I don't think these people love any less than others.
         They just love more than one thing. They love you,
         and then they love their music. And, since music
         is an *unconditional* lover who provides sensuality,
         warmth, definition, and purpose without asking for
         a single thing in return but time, if you push it to a contest,
         *you* are most likely the one who is gonna come out
         with walking papers.
         
         ....and a brief aside here...more of a question than
         a comment really....about the kids. Kids I know are
         fairly non-judgemental about stuff like this...In
         fact are so impressed generally about people who
         perform that *unless* they are picking up on some
         adult's displeasure or frustration surrounding it....
         they would never think to object. They might want
         to go listen. Could it be that the kids make these 
         comments because they know you would like to? Not 
         because they are so awfully upset?  
         
         And...re: Lorna....on lead female singers [chuckle]
         
         {ahem}...Since I was one of those....I got a chuckle
         out of this....but I would like to add a thought...
         
         Female leads are not very high on the list of possible
         lovers for most male band players....they are:
         
         	1. Too intimately aware of their *less* than
         	   God-like foibles....[see too many screw-ups
         	   in practice]
         
         	2. Too bitchy...let's face it...if you are
         	   any good, you have an ego the size of
         	   of the chicken that ate Chicago...
         
         	3. Too manic...either absolutely wonderful
         	   or....[worse than you can even dream]
         
         You know what they say about the band that "lays"
         together, Hmmmm? It's usually the "young turks" that
         get it on with members of the band....after you do
         this and have it erupt in your face a few times [I
         mean what do you do when the drummer and the lead
         have to "perform" but are not speaking? It can get
         rather touchy....]...you look for emotional and sexual
         relationships outside the band as a survival technique.
         
         Melinda
                                                

    
    My Goodness Melinda...  you've seem to come down on me pretty hard?
    
    I guess you missed my base note... Two years into the relationship
    he joined a band.  I guess you've never been on the other side of
    the coin...  I'm sure it's pretty glamous singing on stage... Isn't
    that everyones dream at one time or another.  But I just merely
    explaining what's it's like being in a relationship with a Band...
    
    From my experience with children, kids are also pretty honest...  
    I do not influence my boys at all, and I hope to think that's not
    what you were insinuating.  They too were spoiled, by having him around
    for that two year period, then all of a sudden he's gone nights..
                                       
    "I don't mean to sound like a bitch..." I know you don't, you're just
    explaining how you view experiences..   And I appreciate them...
                            
    Friends???
    
    Maria

    Rick usually didn't travel with me to gigs and went to a rehearsal
    once.  Once or twice he showed up for a later set with folks in
    tow -- they'd asked 'Where's your wife?' so he brought 'em by.
    
    He was _very_ supportive.  In fact he bugged the hell out of me
    when I gave it up, because he didn't think I'd be happy if I didn't
    sing. [Fooled _him_!! ... I _do_ sing: in the yard, at parties, in
    pubs, when I practice, when I cook ... ]
    
    Many people in the audience seem to think that the band is 'theirs'
    somehow ... which is wonderful in terms of connecting, but can be
    a pain when the music stops.  Many band members find gratification
    in the connection-after-the-music.  I didn't. Oh sure, I loved the
    strokes, but the strokes I got from really punching it in a performance
    were _much_ better.
    
    There were times when I was quite attracted to a man I sang with;
    however, I found that tension made for a better performance than
    release ... if ya know what I mean.
    
      Ann
  

    
    Hmmmm....
    
    Well I didn't mean to sound like I was coming down on *you*. Apologies
    all around if I did. I *did* mean to sound like I was coming down
    on what in my view are some stereotypical views of bands and
    relationships. 
    
    No, I read the base note. I just couldn't believe [bad
    word....ah...imagine?] that someone who is successful in a band
    at this point in time, was not somehow obviously connected to music
    less than two years ago. If he did that...he is very talented indeed.
    Most of us take years and years and still have to get better...in
    fact that is part of the "schtick"...the need to keep getting better
    just to stay even....
    
    RE: children....[grin] Well, as anyone who has met me will tell
    you, I hardly ever insinuate anything...I usually come right out
    and say it...which I did. *But* I asked it as a question because
    I do not know *your* kids....so they could indeed really feel this
    way. BUT also for the record....the tendancy of all children to
    react to their parent's stress is a well documented child psychological
    trait....not just my opinion. And...in my opinion...we all [parents]
    influence our kids. That is what we are supposed to do....influence
    them...raise them. We try out best to make sure the influence is
    positive in nature....but we remain human...Hmmm? It was not meant
    as a subtle criticism...I lack subtlty when I criticise....it was
    just meant as what it was...a question I would ask myself in your
    circumstance.
    
    Friends? Absolutely! I seldom take the time or energy to seriously
    discuss or disagree with someone whose opinion I do not respect.
    I thought your base note was honest and straight forward. I was
    just [as you so aptly observed yourself] throwing an alternative
    perspective into the pot.
    
    hugs
    
    Melinda

	I think what's happening is that you feel a sense of
competition between relationships. In fact, I've always
considered a band, or being in one, in the context of a
relationship, cause that's what it is. Bands present *all*
the problems, trials and tribulations that interpersonal
relationships do. That you're interacting with maybe 3-4
others - instead of just one other - makes things even that
much more difficult. Just try an get 5 people to even show
up at the same time, consistantly...

	However, I'd take Melinda's words to heart. People have
certain things, or at any time choose certain things, that
they feel helps define themselves to themselves. People are
also quite willing to give up some of these "for the sake of
the relationship/marriage", but, in doing so, they're really
giving up a part of their self definition and themselves.

	While this may sound like the "noble" thing to do, it's
really a question of balance in terms of it being healthy for
the person surrendering some part of themselves. For example,
some people are quite willing to "give the moon" to maintain
their relationship, and this is the hallmark of co-dependancy.
A person who's willing to give nothing has a much different
problem...

	Should he give this up for you and the boys, he'll really
set a very negative example for them and you. My father gave up
his Motorcycle and Airplane to be with my mother, and, 
unbeknownst to him when he made that decision, it set a strong
example for his son later in life - that you give up whatever
it takes for the sake of the goddamn "relationship"! Luckily,
it onlt took me 14 years for figure out that this was wrong.

	I swear, I'd either not exist at all or be a much different
person if my dad had acted differently on that one issue. It
would've been so cool if he had said "Listen, Jane, you either
love _all_ of me or you dont. Specifying me to be what *you*
want wont be very good for me, in terms of how *I* see myself.
It'll eventually stress the piss outta things between us!".

	But Nooooo, he said "Uh_Uh_Uh! Yes dear, I'll give up the
airplane and bike if you'll let me..."

	Woosie. Guess who's just like him?

	Joe Jas

    Re .10, Melinda, I'm glad you got a chuckle out of what I said about
    female lead singers! :-) (I hope it didn't offend anyone, but to
    quote Edie Brickell "I know what I know if you know what I mean"
    :-)  )  (Ann, I would *never* think of you as obnoxious either,
    even if you were a female singer with a big ego :-)! )
    
    As far as the other stuff that Melinda said about music goes, I
    agree.  I lived for 2 1/2 yrs. with somebody who felt that way about
    music and was very involved in it, and I always thought that the
    music made both him and our relationship more interesting, and fun,
    not less.  (But, then I'm a closet groupie from way back.)
    
    At the same time, I am sympathetic with .0's feelings.  I guess
    I just feel that you have to say, this is who this person is, I
    can either accept it, or I can't.  I know it's not easy to decide
    what to do when there are some things about a person that you love
    and would miss and other things that you can't stand.  You just
    have to decide what means the most to you and your happiness.
    
    I can't understand people who give up something they love for a
    relationship and I can't understand people who ask that of someone.
     I would never want to start sharing a life with a person who had
    just given what they love most to be with me.  What a horrible burden!!
     I wouldn't want someone turning to me in 10 yrs. and saying, "I
    gave up my motorcycle/music/guns/whatever, to be with you....ANd,
    guess what?  You weren't worth it!"  (Because nobody would ever
    really be worth it, not forever.)
    
    Lorna
    

    Thanks again for the replies...
    
    I don't want him to give up his band nor his dream....he LOVES to
    sing.   
    
    But GOD DO WE MISS HIM...   Is that so bad?   
    
    Anyway, I want to get back to my original note, are there people 
    here with SO in bands?  I'm curious how do you find a happy medium?
    How do you have a relationship where both is happy? 
    
    To all the singers,  have you had long lasting relationships while 
    playing out?   
    
    I don't mean one night stands... I don't want to offend anyone, but 
    bands do have bad reprutations... (from what I've seen) Not all
    bands... but most!!!  I only knew of one famous singer who I had full 
    faith in... Lionel Richie.. I thought for sure he was the only faithful 
    singer.... Need I say more?  :)  There's not too many idols in bands 
    and relationships which have stayed together..  It's discouraging to 
    watch television interviews with singers...these days.
    
    Anyway If so... Have you have discussions about the lack of time spent 
    together?  How are you juggling both?  How are you keeping both your 
    dream and your mate happy?  Show me the light!!!
    
    I've heard the following comments..... "How do you do it"? "When do 
    you get time together"?, "Boy it must get awful lonely...Huh?" "What
    do you do with all you're spare time"...  I know.. I shouldn't let
    comments like this get to me...  They do... probably because these 
    are the same questions I ask myself...
    
    Is it that those of us who don't sing, cannot see what singers see,
    and visa versa?    
    
    I have to share a story...  There was this ex-singer (female) she 
    and I went out together to listen to them... After the second or 
    third set, she says to me... "Boy I never realized what it's like on 
    this side".  "God this must be sooooo hard". "I could never do this".  
    Just then I felt this sign of relief come over me.  
    	
    			SOMEONE... A SINGER UNDERSTOOD!!!!! 
    
    Somehow what she said made a world of difference to me.  No one...NO
    ONE understands... it's as if I'm speaking another language... But
    someone understood... And a singer mind you!
    
    During this time a slow song was playing.   All of the girls (SO's of
    the band) was sitting at the table watching all of the couples slow
    dancing on the floor...  We all had that envious look on our faces...
    Cracking jokes..."Do you remember how to slow dance"?  "Humm...slow
    dance, what's that"!  Ha!  Ha! 
    
    Joe, you're absolutly right, there is some competition between the two
    relationships...   It's almost like a tug of war for attention... 
    
    Someone had stated earlier, don't ask the question me or the band.
    If you're not prepared to hear the answer.   I'm prepared for either 
    answer.  I'm not questioning him, of course he wants both... I have 
    to make a decision whether this is what I want.  I'm merely looking 
    for alternatives...
    
    Maybe there are couples who have gone over this mountain... and
    are still together...  Tell me there's HOPE!!!      
    

    I'm married to a guy who plays in a house band -- he plays bass guitar
    and sings.  He's gone on Friday and Saturday nights.  When the
    babysitter is available, I go and see him and his band play.  Kira (our
    daughter) doesn't seem too upset that her dad is gone on Friday and
    Saturday nights (afterall, Mom lets her stay up late then (-: )  
    
    Daryl started playing out last August.  The band practices one night a
    week.  I miss him when he's out rehearsing or gigging, but this is
    something he's always wanted to do.  He had been playing the bass for a
    few years before I met him (we've been married almost 7 years) and we
    had been in a couple of 'garage' bands over the years.  I helped him
    write one of the two songs that he's written, and try to add harmonies
    where they're needed when he's practicing at home.  
    
    I can't say that his playing out doesn't bother me.  Sometimes it
    really does.  I swallow my uncomfortable feelings with the onslaught of
    aggressive women at the bar (luckily, they usually flock around the sax
    player more than my hubby) and surprisingly enough, I've been able to
    communicate my discomfort (I'm not the best communicator when I'm
    upset) pretty well.
    
    I know how much Daryl loves to play the bass and sing.  I love to sing
    too and I hope that he would be as supportive of any efforts I might
    want to make as I try to be with him.

                             
    I'm really glad you "ALL" responed.  I've learned a few things 
    here.  Heard a few things that I didn't want to hear, But... I
    appreciated them all the same.  Sometimes that's what it takes
    to learn... 
     
    Melinda, you're note in WN2 really, really touched me...Thanks
    again...  Almost sounds like a song.
                                        
    Please don't stop the replies...
    
    Maria
    
    P.S. I'm going to ask my S.O. to read the replies...  We both were
    interested in others views and experiences...  This is a very touchie 
    subject..for both of us. 

         Maria,
         
         Well, truth be known, my second wrote such a song
         along about the same time....
         
         For you and your SO....here 'tis...
         
         ----
         
         I cannot say I need you, 
         it's a song I've never sung.
         I have no need to say it,
         it seems foreign to my tongue.
         
         	I only know I tremble
         	at your touch.
         	But to me it means so little
         	and to you so very much.
         
         I cannot say I trust you,
         or I'm easy at your door.
         For the heart is slow to enter
         where it's not been before.
         
         	I only know I blossom
         	when you're near.
         	But the heart issues warnings 
         	that only he can hear.
         
         I cannot say I love you,
         or that I'm not afraid.
         Such words are for kind fools
         who've never been betrayed.
         
         	Do not make me give you
         	promises I can't keep.
         	Or my heart in Autumn's darkness
         	will close in Winter's sleep.
         
         Bob Adams (1970)
         copyrighted

       I was a *full-time* musician for years and during that time I gave
    myself limits. If I didn't make it by the age of 30, I'd quit and
    get a *real* job. Guess what happened? Hey, I have a sense of humor!
    I married a GREAT gal in 1975. When we started going out, she *KNEW*
    I was a musician. I met her through my ex-SO. I want to make
    an interesting point about my "ex", I was asked to jam with some
    friends playing in a club. After the second song, she said to me...
    "either you stop playing and leave this place with me, or I'm walking"!
    I didn't even hesitate... I told her and I quote "bye".
    	I was much smarter with my wife, she knew that music was (and
    still is a big part of my life). She accepted it (kinda sorta).
    I'd like to feel that I DO have music under control though. And YES,
    I'm still married to the same gal. It'll be 14 yrs this year! I
    won't say it's been easy and my close friends that read this will
    know that a few years ago we "almost" split up. It WASN'T even because
    of the music! 
    	Do you "trust" the guy? Is HE under control? You know what I
    mean? If you trust him then you have nothing to worry about, if
    it's the time element, or the lack of family/home time, then you
    have to plan a schedule. A music/work/practice/and most important
    "family/home" time. I have 2 great kids and I WILL NOT have them
    "hate" music, because it took me away from them. Everything in life
    is a trade-off. I live my life that way. There IS a balance here
    and because you know your life better than anyone, you'll have to
    find it. If your jealous of the music, talk to him. I remember my
    wife saying once that see wished music was another woman, then she'd
    have a chance of winning me over, but music? Sure, every now and
    then at a gig some young thing would come over and talk to the band,
    or to me, but if you really believe in your marrage, you'll say
    what I've said for years, "thanks, but no thanks". Easy, or what?
    If your SO loves you and believes in your marrage, you have no
    problems!	
    	I've played in more bands than I care to admit over the past
    16 (more or less) years and have seen alot of heartache along the
    way too. 
    	He's been singing for the past 2 (+/-) years? Has he done this
    before, or is this something new for him? If he's been doing this
    only for 2 years, he still needs to mature into the business and
    learn to say "get lost" to certain types. 
 
    Hang in there. 
    Remember, it's easier to get married than to stay married.
    Music is great and I'd never give it up for anything. My wife knows
    that and accepts it. Maybe that's why I love her so much and probably
    the biggest reason we've stayed together all these years is that
    we adjust and can adjust. I try to make the best of my time at home.
    It really take a special type of person to stay with a musician.
    Musicians are *NOT* easy people to live with. Loving and trusting
    the person is 99.9% of the battle.
    
    Fred