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Conference quark::human_relations-v1

Title:What's all this fuss about 'sax and violins'?
Notice:Archived V1 - Current conference is QUARK::HUMAN_RELATIONS
Moderator:ELESYS::JASNIEWSKI
Created:Fri May 09 1986
Last Modified:Wed Jun 26 1996
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1327
Total number of notes:28298

719.0. ""where theres a will theres an A"" by STRATA::LAMY () Mon Mar 27 1989 06:36

    
    I wasn't sure where else to put this note so i put it here in human
    relations.
    
    has anyone seen the advertisement on tv about this instructional
    tape and manual set called "Where theres a will theres an A" ? it
    is written by a Dr. Olney of Arizona State universtiy and the segment
    on tv has John Ritter talking about the program. Initially it was
    for high school and college students but now they have come out
    with a grade school program. Cassete tapes and manual is 39.95 and
    the video tape and manual is 69.95. from what i understand these
    tapes help you get better grades by showing you how to develop better
    study habits, become a better note taker,listner..etc... anyway
    the grade school program is a tool for the parent to help the parents
    be more effective as teachers at home. I was interested in seeing
    if anyone out in notes land has heard of this program and/or tried
    the program.. it comes with a money back guarentee if not satisfied.
    i would be interested in any comments or feedback from anyone as
    i might be interested in the program for my children. I would be
    interested in hearing from anyone who tried any of these programs
    or knew of someone who has before i toss away 40 bucks...
    
    comments anyone????
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719.1ReplyELESYS::JASNIEWSKIjust a revolutionary with a pseudonymMon Mar 27 1989 12:4764
                                                        
    	While I dont know about the effectiveness of the course itself,
    I do like the program's title!
    
    	Personally, I feel that "will" has more to do with learning
    than any "teritary" skill like note taking or study habits...In
    fact, I'm quite convinced that will _is all you need_ to accomplish
    *anything*, the "mechanics" will be picked up as you go!
    
    	Motivation in a world full of other directed reasons is a tricky
    thing to teach, in terms of the self. Does this course offer any
    of that? Or is that still blasphemy, even for the 1990's?
    
    	Anyway, I has an interesting experience with this in college.
    My motivation was always poor and it had showed in my grades in
    my first 2 semesters. During my second year, I had a girlfriend, 
    who was also an engineering undergrad; very smart and socially well
    known. Oh, how the "hick from upstate NY" wanted to impress her
    and found it "easy" to do so being motivated in that context!
    
    	We took an evening "Diff Eq" course together - supposedly the
    toughest in the whole 4 year curriculum! With her there to motivate
    me, I easily "aced" all three mid-term exams and the course - without 
    having to take the final exam.
    
    	My "Signal analysis and Tranform Methods" class - the other
    "toughie" -  where I had no such "other" to influence my motivation
    (i.e. I had to use my sense of self), was barely passed; I had to take 
    an incomplete and struggle through it again the following summer!
    
    	The *difference* between my performance in taking each class was 
    entirely motivational; had nothing to do with "study habits" or
    "the way I took notes". While motivated in the context of another,
    I was able to perform well beyond my expectations; motivated in
    the context of my self, I barely was able to pull it off.
    
    	While it may seem at this point that the better way to go is
    to motivate a child in the context of another, be careful in making
    the choice of "the other" as "the other" tends to go away in time!
    Certainly the girl for whom I could motivate myself to accomplish
    nearly *anything* is no longer a part of my life! Things change,
    people come and go, and the loss of the other - by whatever means
    - can be quite devastating to a soul set up to see things in this
    way.
    
    	Some people choose God as their "other directed motivation",
    as God is invariant both conceptually and actually. As the quantity
    of religious turmoil in this world indicates, even choosing this way 
    has it's associated problems...
    
    	By the courses title, I would hope that it teaches motivation
    for accomplishment through strengthening of the person's own will
    and did this in the context of one's self. But, I suspect that it's
    a very "vanilla" treastise on "effective note taking" and "how to
    listen", that was designed to be as inoffensive/obtrusive as possible,
    given that it's something marketed to the general public.
    
    	I sure wish I could accomplish as much in the sense of me, as
    I know I could "so easily", doing so in terms of another's approval of
    me. My being this way has to do with how I was brought up and I'm
    just beginning to realize the effect of the reasoning I was given
    for becoming accomplished. "Mom" is no longer alive.
    
    	Joe Jas
719.3BUSY::KLEINBERGERDisic Vita Lux HominumMon Mar 27 1989 17:124
    You might ask this in the parenting conference
    
    
    KP7 and all that jazz....
719.4ACESMK::CHELSEAMostly harmless.Mon Mar 27 1989 17:2513
    Re: .1
    
    >I'm quite convinced that will _is all you need_ to accomplish
    >*anything*, the "mechanics" will be picked up as you go!
    
    I'm not willing to bet on it.  There are mechanics I could not "pick
    up" because I was not aware that they existed.  To me, "picked up"
    means self-taught, which doesn't include reading up on your own.
    (Reading is having the book as your teaching rather than personal
    experience.)  I agree that the desire to learn is the most important
    factor; however, desire is not sufficient.  A vector involves both
    magnitude and direction.  Desire provides the magnitude, but without
    guidance, the vector will have a hard time going anywhere.
719.5!ELESYS::JASNIEWSKIjust a revolutionary with a pseudonymTue Mar 28 1989 14:4614
    
    	And for a vector of magnitude zero (no desire), which way does
    it point? 
    
    	I guess I meant "learned along the way", as each tool is picked
    up, it regenerates the effectiveness of the learning process.
    
    	I can agree with the idea of "guidance", as being a necessity.
    When that gets confused conceptually with "the reason to bother
    trying" is when trouble starts. It's easy to see how one person
    can attempt to do both for a child.
    
    	Joe Jas
    
719.6ACESMK::CHELSEAMostly harmless.Tue Mar 28 1989 21:186
    Re: .5
    
    I'm just not so sanguine about people picking up the tools.  I spent
    16 years in school.  I don't take good notes and my study habits
    leave much to be desired.  If I haven't picked up these tools by
    now, how long does it take?
719.7Pencil BlistersELESYS::JASNIEWSKIjust a revolutionary with a pseudonymWed Mar 29 1989 13:2330
    
    	Re:
    
    	Somehow, I managed to develop "a study habit that worked for
    me", when I was in college. It's so simple, that I think it may
    be easy to see how this could have been wrought from sheer desire.
    
    	If I want to learn something, I must write it down. Going thru
    the writing *process* is what "learns me", if you will. You can
    tell I really do care about remembering something, if you see me 
    write it down.
    
    	Even something that takes a certain level of conceptualization,
    like "Integral Calculus", can be learned by me in this way. All I need
    is the detailed answers to all the problems given as "homework" and some
    time to _write out_ both the problem and the corresponding answer,
    and I can do very well on a "final exam" consisting of similar problems.
    	
    	Without my trusty pencil and paper, I wouldnt stand a chance.
    
    	I attribute my discovery of this "method" directly to my desire
    to someday graduate with my engineering degree. (Actually, I wanted
    to impress this girlfriend....) I "just did it" one day and noted 
    that it seemed to work very well for me, when I started getting "A's" 
    on my math exams. (I made sure I got the answers to *all* the home
    work problems) I'm sure, however, that having this well in place 
    *beforehand* would have been beneficial during the time it did take 
    for me to "discover" a learning method on my own. 
    
    	Joe Jas 
719.8more pencil blistersSTRATA::LAMYFri Mar 31 1989 11:4510
    RE.7
    
     YOUR "method" is also the way I learned things Joe. I found that
    the more I wrote something the longer it stayed with me. One example
    is my note taking. In class i would quickly scribble notes and when
    I got home I would copy these notes into my "neat" notebook which
    could be easily read and understood, as compared to my class notebook
    which  only i could understand. I found that copying my notes
    over like this made the material sink in and it was well worth the
    extra hour or so it took me to do this.     
719.9HPTS::JOVANpa$$ionTue Apr 04 1989 17:5010
	I just yesterday ordered the high school set for my son - takes 4 
to 6 weeks to get here, then a semester (quarter) to tell if his grade go 
up.  I think the most valuable thing the tapes seem to offer are methods to 
study, which are not taught in the school my son attends.  He is 
exceptional smart, but does not understand how to study, take notes or take 
exams.  It is my hope that this will help him and in the long run raise his 
self esteem as he realizes he can get good grades.  They are but a tool for 
him to use.  They are expensive, but I can't put a price on his education.

Angeline