Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    
    i think we shouldn't make so many promises.....
    

    unfortunately we are encouraged, by society?, to make lots of
    promises that we find we just can't keep....
    	like....marriage forever?
    
    wouldn't it be wiser to just say...i'll do my best....
    or...i'll try....or...i'll give it my best shot....or...
    well, let's see what happens....
    
    once we *promise* something....especially something that we have
    no idea we can fulfill...we feel pressure to try and maintain
    that promise....
    
    so i stopped making promises....
    now i just promise to make an attempt and see what happens.....
    maybe....

    A promise is (or should be taken as) a commitment to do the very
    best that the person can to reach the goal. If that is done by the
    person making the promise, then I feel that the promise was kept,
    even if the final outcome was negative. After all, how can anyone
    ask someone to do more or better then their very best.
    
    As a side, using the word promise knowing full well that you have
    no intentions to, or lack the ability to accomplish the task/goal,
    is not a promise, it is just another lie. 

    A promise to me is everything.
    
    I will never make a promise unless I am sure  I will be able to
    keep it fully.  If there is any doubt in my mind  that the goal
    can not be reached I will promise to try my hardest to achieve that
    goal.
    
    Bill

    	I think people take and give promises too easily. This applies
    to dealing with children, SO's, and other people in our lifes. 
    	If I make a promise, I will carry it out. To me, it is part
    of my moral fiber to hold to a promise, tho that may sound idealistic.
    I try not to make promises unless I know for sure I can carry it
    out.
    	I think my parents instilled the value of a promise inside
    each of my family, and I thank them for it. As kids growing up,
    we knew that if a promise was given, it was not to be taken lightly.
    Now as an adult it is part of me to carry that on.
        
    	People should be very careful to say what they relly feel and
    not what they think others want them to say.
    
    	
     

    Old saying...
    
    A promise made is a debt unpaid.
    

I think that all too often we make promises that we shouldn't, promises that
depend of someone else's actions or 'buying into' the promise, or promises about
things that we cannot control.

Also, I think sometimes we have to tell those who made a promise, and tried to
keep it in good faith, but failed, that it is ok, rather then concentrating on
'YOU LET ***ME*** DOWN'. 

I think we accept promises to lightly.  I would not accept someone else making
me a promise that I did not believe that they could fulfill.  So many people
would accept the promise, and hold it over the other person like a whip.

When someone makes a promise, we too often expect that promise to instantly
become reality without any effort on our part and without regard for the effort
required on other people's part.  This is part of the problem that all to often
people accept the illusion of something rather then doing the work which is
needed to make that something reality. 

Often I refuse to take promises made to me seriously.  If someone promises to do
something for me, it's no big deal to me; either they will do it, or they won't,
and I refuse to try to pressure them or bully them into keeping that promise,
and acting as though that promise has to be reality, rather then whatever is
really going on.

If they end up not keeping the promise, that's ok.  I assume that there was a
good reason.  Perhaps something more important came up, perhaps it was due to
circumstances beyond their control, perhaps they couldn't; it doesn't matter.
What does matter is that the task did not get done, and I have to accept that as
part of reality. 

What if they never intended to keep that promise?  What if they intentionally
lied to me?  What if they are always making promises, but not keeping them?
Then I will eventually find out.  One way or the other, they're attitude will
become obvious over time, and I will deal with that reality, rather then
worrying about promises that weren't kept.

Also, we too often assume we are promised something from a casual conversation
or remark, and assume that we both understand all the how, what, why, who, and
when's of the promise, and get upset later then things don't go the way we
wanted them too. 

Last, no guarantee or warranty is worth the paper it's printed on.  Once they
have your money, you can bet that the company will cut corners wherever they
can.  Sure, there's a warranty on my brand new boombox, but in order to get it
fixed, I have to send it to Nebraska, and it could well be a *YEAR* before I get
it back in working order. 

Sure, your car has a great warranty on paper, but how much service is
'maintenance' such as clutches and brakes?  Your dealer may have a huge service
department, but that won't help you if it takes 2 weeks to get the parts to fix
your car.  And they don't tell you before you buy the car that you have to leave
your car there the whole day in order to have anything done to it, and there's a
good chance that you may come back and find that they were too busy to get to
your car that day, or that they started working on your car at 4 pm, and found a
couple of other things wrong, and they will have to work on it another time.
They don't tell you that it takes an hour in the morning to drop the car off and
tell the right person what is wrong with your car, and an hour to pick up and
pay for it.  They don't tell you that of course they don't have loaners or
rentals nor can they drive you across town to work, so that you have to arrange
to have a friend pick you up and drop you off.  And of course they don't tell
you that you will have to bring your car in at least three times to fix any
given problem, once to find the problem and order the parts, once to fix it, and
once to *really* fix it and fix any damage they did fixing it the first time. 


Jim.

    I had a mother who often made promises which she could not keep.
    When you are a very little child, "could not keep" isn't really
    understood.  
    
    I have a grandson who told me one day that when his mother says
    "You can bet I will" he figures its *almost* a promise.  When she says
    "I will see what I can do" he figures he has a 50/50 chance.  He
    then informed me that promises were things that could *never* be
    broken and that is why she didn't say she promised just in case something
    happened.  
    
    Better not to promise to do anything but one's very best.
    
    M  

    I never say I'll promise to do something unless I am sure I
    can/will do it. I learned that very early in my parenting.
    I'll say 'maybe' or 'if we can' or 'we'll talk about it'.
    
    and if for reasons outside of my control I cannot keep a promise
    I try to suggest an alternate that can take the place.
    
    Bonnie

    Along these same lines, I have a question.  My dad was/is real bad
    about saying "Someday....."  Is this a promise?  This past weekend,
    for example, my dad was washing his camper, and my 8 year old nephew
    was helping.  Dad said, "Tony, *someday* you can come camping with
    us in our camper."  Well, Tony came running inside jumping for joy,
    saying that "Grandpa said I could go camping with him this weekend."
    My mom, not knowing the original conversation, said, OK.  So now
    do we have a promise here or not?  My opinion, is that *someday*
    is just too vague for a kid.  They take it to mean, NOW.  So now,
    if my parents decide not to go camping this weekend, they will have
    a grandson thinking he has a broken promise.  I've seen this happen
    MANY times with my dad, saying *Someday...* and then having upset
    kids (and now grandkids) when the promise doesn't happen when they
    think it should.  
    
    Any opinions?
    

    Someday - much like "TOMORROW" 
    
    	In a tavern I frequented many years ago, was an old yellowed
    sign on the wall behind the bar - "FREE BEER - TOMORROW"
    
    	The sign was there for a loong time, and guess how many people
    collected .
    
    	Anyhow - a promise to an adult is different than a "someday"
    to a child. A promise is sacred and puts one's honor on the line.
    
    	 To a child - adults often say "someday" as a way to put things
    off which are not possible ... milder than saying "NO".
    
    	Guy B.
    

    I'm very careful about what I promise.  If I'm not absolutely sure
    that I can and am willing to do something, I'll say "I'm planning
    to..." or "I'll try to...", or something like that.  A little more
    firm is the simple statement "I'll do xyz".  If I say "I promise
    to xyz.", I've already made certain that I have the resources to
    do xyz, that I am willing to do xyz, and that it is possible to
    do xyz in any stated time period.
    
    For example, I never promised my former SO that our relationship
    would last forever.  I have promised that I won't just walk out
    of a certain friend's life.  I've promised to keep certain things
    secret.  There are extenuating circumstances where a promise can
    be broken, but those are very few.
    
    Elizabeth

A number of people have been pointing out that to avoid the danger of
breaking a promise, they don't say

	I promise to do such-and-such

or

	I will do such-and-such

Instead, they say things like

	I will try to do such-and-such



But there's the other side of the coin.  Suppose you're on the job, and
you're asking someone to, let's say, write a computer program to calculate
something you need.

How does it feel when someone says

	I'll try and have it done by Friday

How does it feel when someone says

	I will have it done by Friday

The point is, we'd much rather deal with people that are willing to make
promises.  Turn it around, and we get that people would rather deal with
us if we're willing to make promises.

Our manager has asked that we "crisp" up our project plans and reports.
He wants to see what we promise to deliver, not what we will try our best
to see what we hopefully can blah blah blah

He's not saying promise the world.

He's saying take a good luck at what you can deliver, then promise it !

/Eric

    Re: .12

    	Well, if we look at things that way, Eric, then I think we
    also have to be a bit more understanding and/or forgiving if
    someone fails to come through with what they've promised.  

    	If you've promised to have a report on my desk on Friday, and
    something comes up, such that there's no way you can finish the
    report, should I get upset, because you *promised* to have the
    report for me?  Whereas, if you said you'd try your best to have
    it done, and it wasn't done, I'd understand that something
    prevented you from finishing.  (Maybe I'm naive?)

    	Now, if inherent to the promise was the meaning of "I'll try
    my best",  have we altered the definition of a promise?

    	Sure, I think we'd all like to deal with definite commitments.  
    But sometimes, it isn't realistic to make that commitment.  Or
    sometimes, we *think* we can, but something interferes.

    	I don't hear a lot of people saying "I promise such and such",
    but I think if I did, I'd internally translate it to "I'll do
    everything I can to.....".  Perhaps that's just my own safeguard
    against disappointment.

    	Amy

I think there is a difference between a "promise" and a "commitment".
A "promise" to me has different emotional conotations.  Let's consider
commitments first.

In order to work together effectively, we need to be able to make and
get commitments.  To me, "commitment" means all out effort.  I will do
everything reasonable in my power to meet the commitment.  Refusing to
make any commitments because something beyond your control might prevent
you from keeping it doesn't really help.  We're not omnipotent, but
commitments are still important.  The real power of commitment is not
in agreeing to do things you know you can do easily, but in accepting
responsibility for something that's difficult or you're not sure of.
A commitment changes your behavior.  People who make and keep
their commitments are a pleasure to work with.  They bring out the
best in themselves and others.  I can't guarantee everything will work
as planned, but I have a pretty good idea how they're going to respond
and that's worth a lot.

To me, "promise" has a stronger personal conotation.  If someone tells
me a secret which I promise not to tell, I have control over that.
If sometime later I felt I had good reasons to break the promise,
I would ask the person promised for permission.  Ultimately, each of
us has to decide for ourselves what comes first.  Keeping promises
versus saving lives or other interests.  In making this decision,
I try to weigh how the world would work if everyone else adopted the
same standard I do.

Do others sense this distinction, or am I imagining it?

- Peter